[Patch 5.2] RIP DFG General Discussion - Page 24

On February 01 2015 13:03 Letmelose wrote:


This video is just so mediocre in terms of research and analysis that is uncharacteristic of Thorin, yet is quite significant in its implications (rewriting history as Thorin sees fit), that I just have to call it out.

Not only do I disagree with his notion that Moscow 5 was without question the absolute best team in the world, when it was more like the best team at using Evelynn, and their weakness exposed by multiple teams throughout the era, just like a lot of the top teams at the time. World Elite had a shit top lane, but it was nullified out in IPL5 due to the broken Rengar, Moscow 5 also had a shit top lane, and was the reason why the struggled so hard versus Invictus Gaming, and lost to Stanlee's Nidalee in the Season 2 World Championship. There was no single team in Season 2 who didn't have crippling weakness that could be punished heavily, maybe except when Azubu Blaze had Reapered (because he made Helios relevant, not because he was the best top-laner) before they got complacent.

But the thing that made me cringe the most was his run down of the best players at each position.

Okay, the top-lane list was the most ludicrous. He mentions the likes of Dyrus and Darien, but forgets to even mention Expession and PDD, who are top tier candidates for being the best at their role in that point of time, especially if we are talking about the "best", not the greatest (which has to take into account their achievements and legacy). Expession was already the best top-laner in Korea when he made his debut (same time as Shy). Shy always mentioned that he had an inferiority complex, MaKNooN was inferior to Expession in every single facet of the game except his Nidalee play (which Expession was also godlike at, see his 1v9 Nidalee play versus Psw Ares) and was open to admitting that, and every single professional out there mentioned Expession as the ultimate 1v9 in bad teammate prison guy. Watch his IPL5 Korean qualifiers play versus MakNooN, his performance in Battle Royale series over great players such as Shy and PDD, and tell me witha straight face this guy wasn't ever one of the best. If we should discount his quality because his team was bad, then just re-frame the list as the list of greatest players of Season 2, not the best.

PDD was the best non-Korean top-laner, and was better than Shy for much of Season 2, and showed it in their face-off at Battle Royale. His Vladimir absolutely demolished Darien in the Season 2 World Championship, and he never had trouble versus any of the Western top laners such as Voyboy in my memory.

Reapered was indeed godlike during Azubu The Champions Spring Season, but was already starting to lose his laning prowess during the Summer season, especially versus MaKNooN. The only reason why he was such a dominating force during his Azubu Blaze days was because he micromanaged Helios to his benefit, and shaped the whole team in his benefit, because the bottom-lane was passive by nature and was content playing second fiddle, and Ambition was a force of nature that didn't require any assistance. That's why almost every single player that was in the CJ organization including non-Blaze members like CloudTemplar recognized Ambition as the biggest carry of the team in that era, because he was dominating his lane opponents whilst getting focused heavily by the enemy team while Reapered had Helios to ensure he got fed. It's really odd how Thorin keeps mentioning Looper as some beneficiary of his great team, and refuses to acknowledge his great play during Season 4, yet worships Reapered utilizing the nature of his teammates to his benefit. Take out Ambition out of the equation, all the shot-calling (much of which made Reapered the focus of the team) that Reapered did will become useless. That's why Reapered respects Ambition so much, and recalls him as the most superb player of the Azubu era.

You can't have it both ways. You either acknowledge both Looper and Reapered for adjusting the best to their team, or you take stand out players who stand by their own merit like Expession.

If not playing bad is all Froggen requires in order to claim the best player at his position without question, there's a whole bunch of players waiting for that title in a huge ass list. Playing better than RapidStar is not a claim to fame. Even Reginald did that. RapidStar was such a weak laner that multiple players including Zz1tai, Toyz, and most significantly Ambition (except when he got cocky and let RapidStar get the broken Diana), won games off snowballing advantages against him. Froggen never managed to do that. Of course, that has much to do with the nature of his playstyle, but apart from abusing the team-fight centric nature of his team, and being a rock in the mid-lane, there were facets of the game Froggen never mastered. Alex Ich was much better at roaming and dictating the pace of the game. Twisted Fate play was something Ambition, and Misaya had down to an art form, but Froggen was shit at that champion. Zz1tai had a significantly larger champion pool, and could abuse laning mistakes harder than Froggen ever could, and showed it against Alex Ich in the Season 2 World Championship, and against RapidStar on multiple occasions. In fact, the only player who Zz1tai sucked heavily against during the laning phase was Ambition, someone who all of Misaya, Zz1tai, RapidStar and Toyz listed as either their most difficult opponent, or their most feared Asian counterpart. In fact, the only reason RapidStar beat Ambition in that Summer season semi-finals was because Ambition kept stomping Zz1tai's Diana with his Ahri during scrims, and thought Diana was a shit champion, when at the same time Zz1tai stomped RapidStar with his Diana. There's not a single thing that Froggen was better than Ambition, except for his Anivia play, and Ambition purposely played bad match-ups against Froggen then beat him soundly in the mid-game during their face-off at MLG Dallas. Apart from moments of arrogance, Ambition was by far the most complete mid-laner of Season 2, with his wide mastery of champions such as Twisted Fate, Orianna, Ryze, Diana, Vladimir, Jarvan IV, and Syndra, wonderful laning, and solid team fighting. The only thing lacked was skirmishing with his jungler (who was the brain-dead Helios), and roaming, which Alex Ich and RapidStar was probably a level above.

His adulation of WeiXiao is quite deserved, and while his dick sucking of MadLife does tend to go a bit too far, he probably was the best support overall.