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As of page 44, no more placement QQ in GD.
Ty,
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On January 24 2015 06:11 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 05:38 Slayer91 wrote:
and how are they supposed to get you low hp without focusing you?
its a waste to use it for the tenacity alone most of the time
you'll gain maybe 1 second but you'll die like 5 seconds faster
you do realize that if you're at 500 HP, and use it, it's AT MOST as effective as using it at any other time, if you were going to take 500 damage within 4-5-6 seconds.
Now if you aren't going to take 500 damage in those 4-5-6 seconds then the teamfight is lasting a hell of a long time and you'll get a second W regardless.
A secondary but important point also it that low hp is when you get ignited, when is when your W is totally useless to you. I'm not saying 500 hp, all you do is ascribe arbitrary numbers to argue against, but thats not the point of what i'm saying. but the main damage you will be receiving at high hp is incidental as a result of disables, then when you stick to your target they will be trying to kite you, when you get low enough people will switch their focus to you that value will depend on the fight, then you use W. if they never switch focus to you, then its fine to use it whenever i guess. you are suggesting only using the spell when you are about to be burst, which is one use yes and the use i'm talking about. but the secondary use is to use it when you will be CC'd in order to reduce the CC to practically nothing. the high cooldown of the ability prevents you from using it for that use and also the damage mitigation use. and thats against what riots philosophy on abilities is.
You are thinking in vague terms that make sense to you in a game that crunches numbers. That's why you should be thinking about it in terms of numbers.
I'm using an arbitrary numbers because examples work best usually to make someone understand something, I can use variable notation but it would probably confuse most people. It doesn't matter what number it is, here are the main points.
1: If you use W, the MAXIMUM extra damage "soaked" you can get from it is your current total hp multiplied by 0.3 (minus ignite damage if relevant).
2: If you use W at a low hp, the maximum value you get is gated by your hp at the time. The statement "use it at low hp" is blatantly terrible because you don't want to use it at "low hp" you want to use it at THE BIGGEST INCIDENT OF BURST DAMAGE that you will take. If the biggest incident of burst damage you will take is at low hp, it can be the right time to use it.
3: CC isn't reduced to "practically nothing" CC is reduced by 30%. 30%. It gives you a DEFINITE extra amount of seconds to move toward an opponent which will reduce the damage you take by a DEFINITE amount. That definite amount may or may not be more than the damage reduction later..
4: You should try to be aware of the time you'll take the most damage in the duration of W and use it then.
If you are being kited then either you are chasing numerous people which is bad if you aren't close to full or they are running from the team meaning it's a 1v1.
"incidental damage" there's very little incidental damage, just damage you took when you weren't paying attention, it's usually ADCs and spammable AP spells.
Another point is this: At low hp every time you want to go for a kill its essentially a big risk, you might ge 1 for 0, you might get 0 for 1, or 1 for 1, they are all common depending on who's winning the fight. If you are at high HP you have a strong chance to be able to get a kill and also get out, so you should never aim to be at low hp on a melee champion. At low hp often the best course is to run away. As a ranged champ you can accomplish a lot from low hp, but as a melee you have to pay a hp tax to close the gap basically, so maybe you can W to close that gap but usually you'll just not take the risk at run, so you should always be aiming to use W at higher hp when the opponent has less options rather that later where he can wait out W say and then turn on you or something like that.
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IMO, you should always use garen W near the beginning of a fight, when basically everybody will have cooldowns up. Unless you put yourself in a position to be focused and die for free, every cooldown you can force them to spend on you during the first few seconds of a fight, is a couple seconds for someone else on your team to do damage. You don't cease being useful until you either flash/run out of a fight, or die(or win the fight).
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You don't "force someone" to use their CDs, they have the option to use them, and if they are skillshots you also have the option to dodge them. If they are using their CDs are you then you have to ask whether you think it's good for your team or bad, and if it's bad you are out of position and if it's good you should be at an advantage and still be able to get a kill.
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What do you do to counter Azir during laning? Just stay out of range of arise?
I was playing Kennen and wasn't even attacking him. I'd get close, like 500 range. He plops a soldier down, I take at least 1 auto and as I'm getting out of range he Q's dealing damage and slowing me and getting 2 more free autos.
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you should read his skills, i havent
you can probably get him to use a soldier and then E in and get a favourable trade out of soldier range or something.
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On January 24 2015 07:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
What do you do to counter Azir during laning? Just stay out of range of arise?
I was playing Kennen and wasn't even attacking him. I'd get close, like 500 range. He plops a soldier down, I take at least 1 auto and as I'm getting out of range he Q's dealing damage and slowing me and getting 2 more free autos.
I can't imagine Kennen being able to deal with Azir at all. Like look at kennen's kit, and Azir's kit. What can Kennen even do against him?
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On January 24 2015 07:47 Slayer91 wrote:
you should read his skills, i havent
you can probably get him to use a soldier and then E in and get a favourable trade out of soldier range or something.
I've been spending the last 30 minutes reading his abilities, watching the champion spotlight again and this lolking guide from a top 30 world Azir.
I can probably try to get a quick QW next time but that can quickly turn into an all in.
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I say this as someone who blind picks azir if up and bans it if fp, but if I had to give him a weakness, before he finishes morellos he's pretty gated by cd and weak (ish) to all ins.
force him to make as many soldiers as possible and to move them around a lot and you should be able to put him in a position where he has to conserve his mana in case he needs a combo, or he'll be dumb and just oom himself.
I'm not even sure if this will work, I think he's super strong atm, but these are the things that annoy me when I play him
On January 24 2015 07:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 07:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
What do you do to counter Azir during laning? Just stay out of range of arise?
I was playing Kennen and wasn't even attacking him. I'd get close, like 500 range. He plops a soldier down, I take at least 1 auto and as I'm getting out of range he Q's dealing damage and slowing me and getting 2 more free autos. I can't imagine Kennen being able to deal with Azir at all. Like look at kennen's kit, and Azir's kit. What can Kennen even do against him?
Max W, walk him down when W is empowered force him to spend mana and take damage anyway, actually seems like a reasonable plan to me
treat him like a melee when he's on 0 items
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I mean kennen is super save so you don't need to get harassed much if you don't want to, if he uses a soldier near turret it expires in 4.5 seconds with a pretty long CD so you can abuse that.
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Problem with that is azir outscales kennen pretty hard so if you don't win lane you are getting more behind.Don't think that lane is workable unless the kennen is just out of azir's league skill wise.
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even if Kennen killed me I'd be confident to 1v1 him @9 if my morello is done and he didn't have zhonya
I guess that is a bit of a misleading statement since you don't really 1v1 from 100-0 as Azir I guess I just mean, I'm more likely to kill him or more likely force him out of lane than vice versa
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On January 24 2015 07:54 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 07:47 Slayer91 wrote:
you should read his skills, i havent
you can probably get him to use a soldier and then E in and get a favourable trade out of soldier range or something. I've been spending the last 30 minutes reading his abilities, watching the champion spotlight again and this lolking guide from a top 30 world Azir. I can probably try to get a quick QW next time but that can quickly turn into an all in.
At best I can see it being a painful farm lane for Kennen, and then he gets outscaled, and then teamfights breakout, and Azir just R's you out of his team, and you're fucking useless in midgame as well.
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I'm not saying anything to contridict that, imo Azir is incredible atm and there is probably a full tier of heros between him and kennen, but it's more than likely Kennen out trades him in the "before first buy" game, so you should abuse that as much as you can if you are already in the situation where this is your match up.
if you aren't confident about your no item trades as Kennen he's not your hero, while teamfight cc is his best skill, his other best strongsuit is his no item vs. no item trading, this was nerfed (which is why you don't see him anymore) but seeing as it's Azir's weakest stage of the game by far (not that that says much) you should try to utilize your tools in this way rather than just go woah is me I'm getting outscaled because it's too late for that.
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Like they question here isn't "hey guys should I have picked kennen here?" it's given that I've picked kennen, what can I do.
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On January 24 2015 08:32 Slusher wrote:
Like they question here isn't "hey guys should I have picked kennen here?" it's given that I've picked kennen, what can I do.
Cheese at level 2 is the best idea I can imagine, if you have ignite. Hai, Regi, and pr0lly are known for this, but if you get a shit lane, just all in at level 1 or 2, where kits of champions don't matter.
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or just auto attack him because you are kennen and his ranged options are pretty bad 1-5
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On January 24 2015 08:40 Slusher wrote:
or just auto attack him because you are kennen and his ranged options are pretty bad 1-5
that's part of the level 2 cheese. Imo by level 3 and 5, Azir's kit kicks in, especially considering minion aggro and stuff. But, like I said that lane seems really painful for Kennen,.
Of course this doesn't take into account jungler pressure and stuff.
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Azir is possibly the strongest champion in the game right now (Gnar might be the other contender), he is definitely SS tier and you should always understand how to deal with the SS tier champions so lets explain in short what Azir does:
Q - Poke based on soldiers that he spawns with his W, does about 95 damage at level 1.
W - Spawns soldiers that do about 70 damage level 1, 75 damage level 2, 80 damage level 3 etc (this is an estimate based on the base scaling per level Azir gets + AP that he would have if he took ap blues).
E - Gapcloser to a soldier, gets a shield when he hits a champion but gets interrupted. Does about 60 damage during laning and
R - Wall that does 150 damage level one, note that the wall is unappeasable without flash or another blink.
What Azir will try to do is put a soldier behind your range creeps and zone you off of them, punishing you for trying to stay near your creeps. Don't get near it, always try to stand near the edge of the lane so he has to choose between throwing his W near creeps or near the edge of the lane so you can just move back behind the creep wave. If you have to last hit on the other side and there is a soldier at your creeps just try to stay near your melee's but just outside of its range, its annoying but you really have no other option.
Now Azir will also be using his Q to harass you, its range is about half a lane away from Azir's position (just try to visualize it), and he will be using it to chunk you down if he has 2+ soldiers up. If Azir summons 2 soldiers play very passive, try to stay in an area where he can't send them on top of you, that way he can only get the damage on Q off and nothing else. If you have to last it just try to do it around creeps, don't go though them, make him decide on having to spend mana on one Q that you can run away from with E or to use them for last hits.
If you wanna pressure him you have to play aggressive where his soldiers are not, early at levels 1-2-3 you can easily rush up to him and punish him for putting a soldier in the middle of the lane by just auto attacking him and stunning him while his soldier is out of range. If he starts getting more soldiers out you have to focus on trying to find weak spots in his defense, Azir himself is very squishy and has no sustain so he relies on his soldiers to zone his opponents away. Just keeping up with him in CS is fine, Kennen scales well and his mid-game is ridiculous with his level 11 ult powerspike, sure Azir is a ridiculous late-game champion, but Kennen isn't awful either and you can play around the wall in teamfights.
However if you play aggressive where he cannot use his soldiers to zone you off you can easily win any trade as he is fairly weak without his first item and Kennen can really punish him for poor placement of his soldiers and himself in the lane.
I could write more on this tomorrow but I'm tired so I'll just leave it at this, maybe I'll go more in-depth on how to deal with Azir tomorrow.
Edit: If Azir pushes just ask for a gank, but generally you want to push him in so he misses CS under tower.
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So, which essential Runes should I pick up now that they are on sale?
Currently have:
Marks: AD, AS, MPen, Hybrid Pen
Seals: Armor
Glyph: Mr, MR/lvl
Quint: AP, AD, LS, GP5, MS, HP
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On January 24 2015 08:31 Slusher wrote:
I'm not saying anything to contridict that, imo Azir is incredible atm and there is probably a full tier of heros between him and kennen, but it's more than likely Kennen out trades him in the "before first buy" game, so you should abuse that as much as you can if you are already in the situation where this is your match up.
I don't think this is true. Haven't played the matchup much, but I played a lot of Kennen last season... it's hard to land shurikens early, and if you try to just auto people minions usually do more damage to you these days. The fact Azir has options that go through minions means he's going to win pretty much everything early, unless he gets careless.
There's a substantial difference between Kennen pre-range nerf and early AD nerf with minions that don't agro you forever and now.
Not sure I agree Azir outscales Kennen either. If you mean pure damage sure, but Kennen ult still whomps people if they're not careful. I guess Azir ult kind of hedges for that, but it's still hard to deal with a Kennen that has flash even with stuff like that.
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EPT
