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As of page 44, no more placement QQ in GD.
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On January 24 2015 01:51 Seuss wrote:
You'd need a constant, reliable method of judging regional metas for that to work.
Ezpz, top 5 most picked champs per lane for the past month, month and a half.
On January 24 2015 01:52 Gahlo wrote:
Ranked is supposed to be the "tryhard" mode anyway.
I disagree. To tryhard in my opinion is to have winning as your ultimate goal, having fun etc is incidental. I play ranked because it's more fun than normals.
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On January 24 2015 01:55 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:51 Seuss wrote:
You'd need a constant, reliable method of judging regional metas for that to work. Ezpz, top 5 most picked champs per lane for the past month, month and a half. Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:52 Gahlo wrote:
Ranked is supposed to be the "tryhard" mode anyway. I disagree. To tryhard in my opinion is to have winning as your ultimate goal, having fun etc is incidental. I play ranked because it's more fun than normals.
Why you do it is inconsequential. Riot has over and over said they want ranked to be treated as a serious game mode.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 24 2015 01:55 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:51 Seuss wrote:
You'd need a constant, reliable method of judging regional metas for that to work. Ezpz, top 5 most picked champs per lane for the past month, month and a half. Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:52 Gahlo wrote:
Ranked is supposed to be the "tryhard" mode anyway. I disagree. To tryhard in my opinion is to have winning as your ultimate goal, having fun etc is incidental. I play ranked because it's more fun than normals.
Winning is kinda goal in every game.
I don't care, what shit do you play, if you just give effort to come closer to winning than other team.
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Well yeah, in spirit I agree, but you're still gonna be pissed this guy picked Zilean jungle and fed five kills in 10 minutes, despite the fact that he was trying really hard
And to clarify, I do take ranked seriously, I don't lose on purpose, but I don't try as hard as I could to win games. I tend to be reckless because safe is boring and I play unconventional champs not because they are strong but because they are different (fun). To tryhard is to sacrifice fun for progress imo.
On January 24 2015 02:26 LaNague wrote:
your argument is that elo hell exists, because otherwise you could just gain elo and have harder games with better teammates that way.
I really don't see how that's my argument.
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your argument is that elo hell exists, because otherwise you could just gain elo and have harder games with better teammates that way.
And i think we have been over that.
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wat
j4 and lee don't really have sustain (lee's w sort of) and aren't that good at clearing
what the hell are you even talking about
they are just trying to get people to stop doing 3 camps or whatever and base with super smite i think.
it probably rewards junglers who can gank without basing first
people pick j4 and lee sin because they are strong gankers
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On January 24 2015 01:47 Osmoses wrote:
It would be an interesting experiment to allow users to check a "tryhard" option, and if they don't play according to the current regional meta and if their kda is subpar for more than three games they get banned from tryharding for the remainder of the month :p
the meta exists as an evolution, when something is strong against what is popular that starts to get played, then champions that are strong against the next popular champs get played etc.
also there are some champs that naturally are likely to get bad KDAs for example a top champ that is easyto gank ot something like yasuo who can do poorly early and then suddenly get 4 kills in a teamfight and stomp
restricting the way people play to win just to protect your emotions is the most pansy shit
anyone who is at your elo earned it one way or another and if they are someone who plays great 80% of the time and feeds 20% of the time well it's the price you pay for having the guy play well the other 80% of the time. You never notice the guy who plays solidly all game because you're too busy noticing whoever isn't doing better than you.
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On January 24 2015 02:18 Osmoses wrote:
And to clarify, I do take ranked seriously, I don't lose on purpose, but I don't try as hard as I could to win games. I tend to be reckless because safe is boring and I play unconventional champs not because they are strong but because they are different (fun). To tryhard is to sacrifice fun for progress imo.
With all due respect, get out of Ranked then, please. I don't mind unconventional champs, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and if that's your attitude going in with said unconventional champs -- hell, if that's your attitude in any role -- take it to the fun land of Yoloqueue, AKA Normal mode.
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On January 24 2015 02:44 Cedstick wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 02:18 Osmoses wrote:
And to clarify, I do take ranked seriously, I don't lose on purpose, but I don't try as hard as I could to win games. I tend to be reckless because safe is boring and I play unconventional champs not because they are strong but because they are different (fun). To tryhard is to sacrifice fun for progress imo. With all due respect, get out of Ranked then, please. I don't mind unconventional champs, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and if that's your attitude going in with said unconventional champs -- hell, if that's your attitude in any role -- take it to the fun land of Yoloqueue, AKA Normal mode.
it's a perfectly viable way to play, even if he tries less hard if he's at the same elo he is probably a better player and the slight troll attitude is the price you pay for having him in your team
you have no right to care what anyone does in ranked play as long as they are being consistent and not trolling for the sake of being annoyed at someone on their team. If you aren't happy with how they play get better. You have the same type of players on the other team but you don't complain when they feed.
like for example if someone trolls 50% of the time and makes the game a 4v5 and then is on the opposite team and makes it a 5v4, that's shitty, but he'll lose both games so he'll drop elo, if someone plays in a certain way that you don't liek CONSISTENTLY, it means he wins 50% of his games so it means he's not going to be the deciding factor of "why you lost", he's just going to be one of them.
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On January 24 2015 02:46 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 02:44 Cedstick wrote:On January 24 2015 02:18 Osmoses wrote:
And to clarify, I do take ranked seriously, I don't lose on purpose, but I don't try as hard as I could to win games. I tend to be reckless because safe is boring and I play unconventional champs not because they are strong but because they are different (fun). To tryhard is to sacrifice fun for progress imo. With all due respect, get out of Ranked then, please. I don't mind unconventional champs, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and if that's your attitude going in with said unconventional champs -- hell, if that's your attitude in any role -- take it to the fun land of Yoloqueue, AKA Normal mode. it's a perfectly viable way to play, even if he tries less hard if he's at the same elo he is probably a better player and the slight troll attitude is the price you pay for having him in your team you have no right to care what anyone does in ranked play as long as they are being consistent and not trolling for the sake of being annoyed at someone on their team. If you aren't happy with how they play get better. You have the same type of players on the other team but you don't complain when they feed.
The only reason I don't complain if the other team has an issue is because it's gotta balance-out somewhere.
Clearly what I posted isn't going to change a thing, and it's more just venting -- your idea to "get better" doesn't change a thing, either, since it's prevalent all the way to Masters. Regardless, I wish I could just have a good game every game.
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A player playing badly does not make the game "a bad game" if you did a bit better then their team would complain about some one else playing badly and you wouldn't notice until you pressed tab.
It's just an excuse you're making so you can project anything negative on to him so you don't need to blame yourself for anything. You can just write it off as "we lost because of a troll who picked X and went 5/7 and we lose 3 dragons bgbgbg"
If you want to vent get to the QQ thread, I'm assuming you have some kind of point as to something you shouldn't do in ranked for a good reason, that guy had a good reason to play ranked. It's way more fun to play with people who want to win, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't completely tryhard.
The idea of "get better" isn't that it's going to solve your problems, it's that realizing that you could have won the game if you played better brings all the power back in your hands, and as long as you can be okay with the fact that you're bad at the game you can have a lot more fun. How many league players blame other people, get really mad in 70% of ranked games and uninstall?
As far as I can tell all league anger comes frmo feelings of helplessness and unfairness. Once you realize you are neither helpless or in an unfair situation you don't really have the anger, and even the odd game where you get an AFK or DC you can always practice which is another goal that isn't tied to winning so you can play a good game lose and still have had fun.
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On January 24 2015 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
A player playing badly does not make the game "a bad game" if you did a bit better then their team would complain about some one else playing badly and you wouldn't notice until you pressed tab.
It's just an excuse you're making so you can project anything negative on to him so you don't need to blame yourself for anything. You can just write it off as "we lost because of a troll who picked X and went 5/7 and we lose 3 dragons bgbgbg"
If you want to vent get to the QQ thread, I'm assuming you have some kind of point as to something you shouldn't do in ranked for a good reason, that guy had a good reason to play ranked. It's way more fun to play with people who want to win, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't completely tryhard.
The idea of "get better" isn't that it's going to solve your problems, it's that realizing that you could have won the game if you played better brings all the power back in your hands, and as long as you can be okay with the fact that you're bad at the game you can have a lot more fun. How many league players blame other people, get really mad in 70% of ranked games and uninstall?
As far as I can tell all league anger comes frmo feelings of helplessness and unfairness. Once you realize you are neither helpless or in an unfair situation you don't really have the anger, and even the odd game where you get an AFK or DC you can always practice which is another goal that isn't tied to winning so you can play a good game lose and still have had fun.
It's not an excuse at all, I'm not out blaming everyone in every game who did the worst for every loss I've acquired. I don't generally care who did the worst, but knowing that someone is going in to Ranked on my team half-heartedly is a bit irksome. You could argue, "well, it's all in your mind," assuming they don't actually state that they aren't trying, but seeing a pick that steps on the other side of the Convention line and isn't actually a good pick in a given circumstance says it for the player.
I don't want to be unfair to osmoses, as he didn't say he was straight-up "not trying" -- the attitude isn't all that bad. It really was the combo that irked me, and I guess it's a bit of a stretch.
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On January 24 2015 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
A player playing badly does not make the game "a bad game" if you did a bit better then their team would complain about some one else playing badly and you wouldn't notice until you pressed tab.
It's just an excuse you're making so you can project anything negative on to him so you don't need to blame yourself for anything. You can just write it off as "we lost because of a troll who picked X and went 5/7 and we lose 3 dragons bgbgbg"
If you want to vent get to the QQ thread, I'm assuming you have some kind of point as to something you shouldn't do in ranked for a good reason, that guy had a good reason to play ranked. It's way more fun to play with people who want to win, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't completely tryhard.
The idea of "get better" isn't that it's going to solve your problems, it's that realizing that you could have won the game if you played better brings all the power back in your hands, and as long as you can be okay with the fact that you're bad at the game you can have a lot more fun. How many league players blame other people, get really mad in 70% of ranked games and uninstall?
As far as I can tell all league anger comes frmo feelings of helplessness and unfairness. Once you realize you are neither helpless or in an unfair situation you don't really have the anger, and even the odd game where you get an AFK or DC you can always practice which is another goal that isn't tied to winning so you can play a good game lose and still have had fun.
Short of having 2 afk's, you should always be able to win. Unless you're already D1+ player.
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On January 24 2015 03:10 Cedstick wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
A player playing badly does not make the game "a bad game" if you did a bit better then their team would complain about some one else playing badly and you wouldn't notice until you pressed tab.
It's just an excuse you're making so you can project anything negative on to him so you don't need to blame yourself for anything. You can just write it off as "we lost because of a troll who picked X and went 5/7 and we lose 3 dragons bgbgbg"
If you want to vent get to the QQ thread, I'm assuming you have some kind of point as to something you shouldn't do in ranked for a good reason, that guy had a good reason to play ranked. It's way more fun to play with people who want to win, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't completely tryhard.
The idea of "get better" isn't that it's going to solve your problems, it's that realizing that you could have won the game if you played better brings all the power back in your hands, and as long as you can be okay with the fact that you're bad at the game you can have a lot more fun. How many league players blame other people, get really mad in 70% of ranked games and uninstall?
As far as I can tell all league anger comes frmo feelings of helplessness and unfairness. Once you realize you are neither helpless or in an unfair situation you don't really have the anger, and even the odd game where you get an AFK or DC you can always practice which is another goal that isn't tied to winning so you can play a good game lose and still have had fun. It's not an excuse at all, I'm not out blaming everyone in every game who did the worst for every loss I've acquired. I don't generally care who did the worst, but knowing that someone is going in to Ranked on my team half-heartedly is a bit irksome. You could argue, "well, it's all in your mind," assuming they don't actually state that they aren't trying, but seeing a pick that steps on the other side of the Convention line and isn't actually a good pick in a given circumstance says it for the player. I don't want to be unfair to osmoses, as he didn't say he was straight-up "not trying" -- the attitude isn't all that bad. It really was the combo that irked me, and I guess it's a bit of a stretch.
Why should it irk you? They are having fun, they are playing the way the always play, why do you want everyone to try their hardest in every ranked games? Or it's not even trying their hardest, it's the pick that pisses you off? You only want people playing something not in "TEH META" if they are super dedicated to it?
I mean I play garen on a very regular basis, sometimes i get people raging since champ select because I picked garen and im a troll and I should go back to normals. It doesn't really bother me but I don't understand why they are acting like children. They don't shut the fuck up until I start winning my lane. Why the fuck does it matter? If they really had a problem with the pick then they wouldn't stop whining when I got a good score, but the fact that I'm doing well means that all they really care about is their perceived chances of people trying their best and having a good chance to win.
On January 24 2015 03:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
A player playing badly does not make the game "a bad game" if you did a bit better then their team would complain about some one else playing badly and you wouldn't notice until you pressed tab.
It's just an excuse you're making so you can project anything negative on to him so you don't need to blame yourself for anything. You can just write it off as "we lost because of a troll who picked X and went 5/7 and we lose 3 dragons bgbgbg"
If you want to vent get to the QQ thread, I'm assuming you have some kind of point as to something you shouldn't do in ranked for a good reason, that guy had a good reason to play ranked. It's way more fun to play with people who want to win, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't completely tryhard.
The idea of "get better" isn't that it's going to solve your problems, it's that realizing that you could have won the game if you played better brings all the power back in your hands, and as long as you can be okay with the fact that you're bad at the game you can have a lot more fun. How many league players blame other people, get really mad in 70% of ranked games and uninstall?
As far as I can tell all league anger comes frmo feelings of helplessness and unfairness. Once you realize you are neither helpless or in an unfair situation you don't really have the anger, and even the odd game where you get an AFK or DC you can always practice which is another goal that isn't tied to winning so you can play a good game lose and still have had fun. Short of having 2 afk's, you should always be able to win. Unless you're already D1+ player.
legit 4v5's are extremely difficult though, I would never suggest you should be able to win that game though it is possible you are probably at the wrong elo if you can pull it off. (happens to me on rare occasion when im on a climbing phase, it helps that people stop trying when they are 5v4)
it's good practice though, if you are ahead in a 4v5 it's a good way to learn to exploit the enemy teams positioning a lot since you either have to pick people off or engage when someone else is farming and they aren't ready to fight.
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I really like the idea of Teambuilder ranked, maybe because i've been playing so much strife, which has you queue as a hero with all your out of game stuff preselected and then you get matched up. then it keeps ladders for best on each hero. its neat.
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On January 24 2015 02:39 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 01:47 Osmoses wrote:
It would be an interesting experiment to allow users to check a "tryhard" option, and if they don't play according to the current regional meta and if their kda is subpar for more than three games they get banned from tryharding for the remainder of the month :p the meta exists as an evolution, when something is strong against what is popular that starts to get played, then champions that are strong against the next popular champs get played etc. also there are some champs that naturally are likely to get bad KDAs for example a top champ that is easyto gank ot something like yasuo who can do poorly early and then suddenly get 4 kills in a teamfight and stomp restricting the way people play to win just to protect your emotions is the most pansy shit anyone who is at your elo earned it one way or another and if they are someone who plays great 80% of the time and feeds 20% of the time well it's the price you pay for having the guy play well the other 80% of the time. You never notice the guy who plays solidly all game because you're too busy noticing whoever isn't doing better than you.
I still think it would be really interesting to see if there was a difference. I don't think this could be a "real" long term thing, but as a featured game mode ranked teambuilder where the captain could mandate "wombo" or "poke" or something and where negative kda as an adc or not enough damage taken as a tank or some other fun metric would sort of "ban" that champ from your pool and then at the end you could see some cool statistics about how you did would definitely be interesting.
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why would damage taken as a tank be a good thing?
this isn't WoW you know
taking unnecessary damage is actually terrible for a tank since most of what you do relies on not being able to be killed quickly
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I think it's a decent metric to determine presence. If the tank is at full health after each teamfight he isnt doing his job, and he has the most health to lose. Thusly he should have most damage taken.
On the subject of doing well, after games where you are confused as to why you lost, what do you look for? Do you check any particular of the post-game stats?
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damage dealt to champions is the only stat i look at. it's still deceptive because laning skews things also being in bad fights gets you more damage even if you died.
Often I've been in fights where I've gotten a triple kill or something and been mostly full hp and have been by far the best player in the team
ranged champs can do a lot with low hp, melees can do very little.
what "your job" is as a "tan" is fluid and so is whether or not you "tank damage".
If you notice in poke wars nobody wants to get too close, because they get insta killed, in teamfights its the same way. The main way tanks die is that they go in too deep, the adc does some free damage and then someone else finishes him off. You could have zoned effectively without taking damage, if you've ever tried diving past an irelia as an adc you'd know you don't survive long.
Zoning and threats play a huge part in teamfights and the classic bad player thing to do is go initiate as a tank go in too deep even with a 3.5k hp j4 and go "I tanked 4 of them for X seconds and you guys did nothing WTF"
well guess what that one other guy was threating to insta go in and lock someone down and then the whole team would get off j4 except the adc and jump on that guy, and nobody wanted to go past him and he didnt make himself easy to kill
I mean if you're a melee champion and you're at full hp at the end of a fight that's nearly always a good thing probably. Unless you literally didn't use any skills and sat next to your adc which nobody does it means you picked situations where it wasn't viable to attack you. Normally it also means you killed their ADC alone or in a group and he couldn't do anything but run because normally the adc will be the one killing you.
It's IS possible that you let someone dive your team too easy but it doesn't necessarily mean so. Most CC skills are ranged anyway so you don't necessarily need to take damage to prevent someone from killing your ADC, and very few assassins or whatever will focus a tank just because they got CC'd by him.
"presence" is an interesting thing, but the best way to get a sense for it is to watch teamfights over and over again from lots of peoples perspectives, or if you don't have replays you can just replay them in your head to the best of your ability. doing that in my head when i was dead was how i learned to teamfight on udyr who doesn't really have any clear role in a teamfight.
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EPT
