|
On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot.
It's mostly because people realized how bonkers Lichbane is on Lulu. Lichbane gives her insane tower push and really good burst damage. Her damage ratios are mediocre, but when you add Lichbane on her, she gets that small extra bit of damage that she needs to justify giving her farm outside of her shield and ult ratios.
|
On March 18 2014 10:21 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot. It's mostly because people realized how bonkers Lichbane is on Lulu. Lichbane gives her insane tower push and really good burst damage. Her damage ratios are mediocre, but when you add Lichbane on her, she gets that small extra bit of damage that she needs to justify giving her farm outside of her shield and ult ratios.
Her MS buff ratio is dumb as fuck too.
|
Yay thresh nerfs... Lol.
And bye bye annie
|
On March 18 2014 10:22 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:21 Ryuu314 wrote:On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot. It's mostly because people realized how bonkers Lichbane is on Lulu. Lichbane gives her insane tower push and really good burst damage. Her damage ratios are mediocre, but when you add Lichbane on her, she gets that small extra bit of damage that she needs to justify giving her farm outside of her shield and ult ratios. Her MS buff ratio is dumb as fuck too.
True, but if she does no damage, it's really hard to justify putting her in a solo lane getting tons of farm and exp. With old Lichbane plus the buff to her passive damage a few patches ago, Lulu actually does significant damage.
|
I just hope that they fix these disconnects soon. I just want to hit diamond 1. 
|
On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot.
Because people didn't try it and didn't realise how strong the utility actually is. Nami's ratios aren't half-bad either, however because Riot managed to design a kit that would never work elsewhere than in a duo lane (bounces, no ability to push the wave, low damage, a bunch of utility, etc.) so you wouldn't see her mid. Her bounces are actually pretty good and if you manage to get ~200 AP and CDR on her you have decent sustain (including in combat) and strong cc through the bubble spam.
Soraka on the other hand... meh. I'm still annoyed by the Starcall gut damage-wise.
I just got carried in two back-to-back games going into Gold II, first time I don't skip a division. I dunno if it's because I've been playing worse or because I reached Plat fairly late in s3 (also I prob had a Plat Elo when the clamping finally let me reach Gold promos, which helped me bolt through) while we're still at the kinda beginning of s4 so it's not as inflated yet.
|
Honestly, I like the Kassadin rework. It seems more fun, still with interesting uses. They're really making him more melee-focused and I have no problems with that. If he is able to be balanced with that skillset, it'd in my opinion be great.
The biggest question about the rest of the patch notes is: Who on earth built that Last Whisper on Karthus?
|
On March 18 2014 10:21 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot. It's mostly because people realized how bonkers Lichbane is on Lulu. Lichbane gives her insane tower push and really good burst damage. Her damage ratios are mediocre, but when you add Lichbane on her, she gets that small extra bit of damage that she needs to justify giving her farm outside of her shield and ult ratios.
right its mainly lichbane, nothing at all to do with the fact that she can save anyone anywhere from the very prevalent assassins with an ap kit. nope definitely all lichbane. not like she hadn't been nerfed prior because of this or anything.
|
On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently.
Also ARAM Sona, which is nice but minor.
|
I kinda like that they're introducing an interrupt in Kass' new Q, although I suppose this one will still be too slow to really use consistantly.
I'd really like to see a true interrupt (not just channeled spells) with a short casttime and no/high-speed projectile in the game.
I used to think Rito doesn't want to have that concept in LoL, but eh, now that they're halfway there, might as well start lobbying for it.
|
Rather than nerf annie they should just universally buff adc's base defensive stats. They've been hurt offensively so hard in the past 2 seasons with no changes to their defense.
|
Quinn's Vault (actually a micro-knock-up iirc) already kinda does that. It's super annoying because it prevents using summoners (even stuff like Barrier won't be cast during it) and movement abilities (like Flash or dashes), cancels your order so if you're running even if you spam right-click you'll stand still a fraction of a second.
|
On March 18 2014 10:30 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:21 Ryuu314 wrote:On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot. It's mostly because people realized how bonkers Lichbane is on Lulu. Lichbane gives her insane tower push and really good burst damage. Her damage ratios are mediocre, but when you add Lichbane on her, she gets that small extra bit of damage that she needs to justify giving her farm outside of her shield and ult ratios. right its mainly lichbane, nothing at all to do with the fact that she can save anyone anywhere from the very prevalent assassins with an ap kit. nope definitely all lichbane. not like she hadn't been nerfed prior because of this or anything.
Without Lichbane plus the buffs to her passive, Lulu does shit for damage. Yes, she can save people pretty well, but if you pick a mid laner who does no damage, you're gonna lose or at least have an extremely hard time winning games.
The last times she has been nerfed were nerfs to her damage and lane bully potential. These are all the nerfs she's ever received.
V1.0.0.139: Nerfed her Q AP ratio and mana cost
V1.0.0.140: More nerfs to her Q AP ratio plus base damage nerfs
V3.6: More nerfs to Q mana cost
V3.14: Hey look! More nerfs to her damage - this patch also included utility scaling and minor passive buff.
V3.15: Another passive damage buff and also the FIRST time her shield was touched and guess what? It was buffed.
Her ult has been untouched since inception outside of a bug fix, minor nerf to its slow, and a buff to its mana cost in 3.15. So yea, she literally has never been nerfed prior because of her ability to save people. She has only ever been nerfed because of her ability to bully people in lane and do stupid amounts of damage when she wasn't designed to.
|
On March 18 2014 10:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Rather than nerf annie they should just universally buff adc's base defensive stats. They've been hurt offensively so hard in the past 2 seasons with no changes to their defense.
I think just buffing their defensive stats is like a band-aid. if they buff stats they should be focusing on the stats of the immobile carries. not an across the board buff which just makes people less likely to build any defense later on either.
|
On March 18 2014 10:41 Ryuu314 wrote:
Without Lichbane plus the buffs to her passive, Lulu does shit for damage. Yes, she can save people pretty well, but if you pick a mid laner who does no damage, you're gonna lose or at least have an extremely hard time winning games.
The last times she has been nerfed were nerfs to her damage and lane bully potential. These are all the nerfs she's ever received.
V1.0.0.139: Nerfed her Q AP ratio and mana cost
V1.0.0.140: More nerfs to her Q AP ratio plus base damage nerfs
V3.6: More nerfs to Q mana cost
V3.14: Hey look! More nerfs to her damage - this patch also included utility scaling and minor passive buff.
V3.15: Another passive damage buff and also the FIRST time her shield was touched and guess what? It was buffed.
Her ult has been untouched since inception outside of a bug fix, minor nerf to its slow, and a buff to its mana cost in 3.15. So yea, she literally has never been nerfed prior because of her ability to save people. She has only ever been nerfed because of her ability to bully people in lane and do stupid amounts of damage when she wasn't designed to. she was nerfed to prevent AP lulu for a few of those nerfs btw. not to mention that "picking a mid laner who does little damage" is entirely a concern of the meta, not a concern of the role. there was a point in time that Zilean was a popular mid for the same reason. Lulu is just zilean + more damage in the current meta. and lich bane while providing her with a little bit of damage, is not the predominant reason we see lulu. we see lulu because of her kit. if it was just lich bane we'd see the better lich bane users over lulu. and that simply not true.
EDIT: yaaaaay clicking quote to copy paste and then forgetting to copy paste . -.-
|
Saying the issue with Lulu isn't lichbane doesn't make it not an issue with the revolving door of lichbane users being an issue.
|
On March 18 2014 10:50 Gahlo wrote:
Saying the issue with Lulu isn't lichbane doesn't make it not the issue with the revolving door of lichbane users being an issue.
just like when you have stomach cancer you should take medicine to prevent the bleeding as your priority i agree. :/
|
On March 18 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:09 thenexusp wrote:On March 18 2014 09:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm a bit confused on why Riot nerfed lich bane while giving literally every champ that actually uses it a total of +.2 on their full burst. It just makes Lich Bane a worse item to build until lategame. Not every lich bane user got +.2 AP, namely a certain support that's been really popular mid recently. Yeah It's weird how Lulu basically sat at the same place for months (in fact, iirc she even got a few nerfs along the way) and then all of a sudden became popular mid and that suddenly required kneejerk nerfs from Riot.
Not really that weird, if you were paying attention when they inserted the new support ratios she got pretty much the best speed ratio in the game, a good slow ratio, and a passive ratio for the cost of a little of her offensive E ratio and the AP on W. Then the patch after that they buffed some of her base numbers (on shield and passive)... so the net effect was more or less that she still had good numbers *and* suddenly had these really nice and useful utility ratios that made her better at roaming, chasing, and boosting angry olafs/shyvannas into the enemy team. That's all good stuff to have on your mid laner.
I admit that I was surprised just how hard it exploded all over LCS but she was definitely buffed along the way.
|
I was pretty confident Lulu would be pretty prevalent this season when I encountered a Nasus and Olaf running around at 600 movespeed with no ghost. And the Lulu would two shot me too. I honestly don't think Lichbane is the problem (not that it helps).
I'm surprised they haven't altered the movespeed ratio yet. And then gave Kayle one on top of that. xD
|
On March 18 2014 10:45 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 10:41 Ryuu314 wrote:
Without Lichbane plus the buffs to her passive, Lulu does shit for damage. Yes, she can save people pretty well, but if you pick a mid laner who does no damage, you're gonna lose or at least have an extremely hard time winning games.
The last times she has been nerfed were nerfs to her damage and lane bully potential. These are all the nerfs she's ever received.
V1.0.0.139: Nerfed her Q AP ratio and mana cost
V1.0.0.140: More nerfs to her Q AP ratio plus base damage nerfs
V3.6: More nerfs to Q mana cost
V3.14: Hey look! More nerfs to her damage - this patch also included utility scaling and minor passive buff.
V3.15: Another passive damage buff and also the FIRST time her shield was touched and guess what? It was buffed.
Her ult has been untouched since inception outside of a bug fix, minor nerf to its slow, and a buff to its mana cost in 3.15. So yea, she literally has never been nerfed prior because of her ability to save people. She has only ever been nerfed because of her ability to bully people in lane and do stupid amounts of damage when she wasn't designed to. she was nerfed to prevent AP lulu for a few of those nerfs btw. not to mention that "picking a mid laner who does little damage" is entirely a concern of the meta, not a concern of the role. there was a point in time that Zilean was a popular mid for the same reason. Lulu is just zilean + more damage in the current meta. and lich bane while providing her with a little bit of damage, is not the predominant reason we see lulu. we see lulu because of her kit. if it was just lich bane we'd see the better lich bane users over lulu. and that simply not true. EDIT: yaaaaay clicking quote to copy paste and then forgetting to copy paste . -.-
Zilean hasn't been popular since Season 1, maybe the beginning of Season 2 and you're forgetting that Zilean used to have pretty respectable damage. His bombs used to have 1.1 AP ratio and did 10 more base damage per bomb, which is very significant given how his kit works. Additionally, when Zilean was popular, you found damage elsewhere, notably in the top lane or with hyper carry ADs primarily because Zilean falls off damage-wise. Remember, this was the era where AD carries were at their strongest. We no longer have super high damage top laners (usually anyways) and AD carries are nowhere near as strong as they used to be.
So yes, I suppose needing damage from you mid-laner is a meta thing, but that's precisely why Lulu is viable as a mid laner. Buffs to her passive plus a very strong Lichbane means she's stays relevant after blowing her ult+shield. Team comps can no longer rely on only 1 huge source of damage a la protect-the-kog comps. If saving people from AP assassins were all you needed, we'd be seeing a ton more Kayle, but we're not.
I'd also argue that Lulu wasn't nerfed to prevent AP lulu from becoming a thing. Rather, it was to remove the disgusting matchup that was top Lulu versus anything melee.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
