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+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 23:39 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 12:31 onlywonderboy wrote:
Scarra said he recognized my handle from posting our stuff on Reddit when we met him at Worlds. And he's actually retweeted NA content so he's pretty much my favorite (former)pro player. Pretty amazing how that works eh? Al the people in this forum that are trying to make it pro or make a living streaming keep that in mind. To make a fan for life all you need to do is interact with the person. Makes us feel special and we will support you for ever. In sc2 its how guys like destiny and MaximusBlack get good numbers even though they were never pro skill level. Tons of interaction.
Hey guys, love all discussion and people on TL. Except for gtrsrs, but otherwise you are all great. You are all special in your own regard.
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On March 28 2014 02:14 Alaric wrote:
Her heal is pretty strong in push comps thanks to the AS buff, and the high ratio also helps her protect her team when against assassins. In the super-tanky top lane meta, having a 40% resistances shred that lasts 8 seconds is arguably stronger than Trundle's ult if you manage to use them well, and they also give some kind of map control through vision.
Of course, the only relevant point is that she turns any comp with wave clear into a poke comp by herself though.
And it was 12 seconds until pretty recently. The traps are almost certainly the most undervalued part of her kit.
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United States15536 Posts
On March 28 2014 03:00 Vlanitak wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2014 23:39 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 12:31 onlywonderboy wrote:
Scarra said he recognized my handle from posting our stuff on Reddit when we met him at Worlds. And he's actually retweeted NA content so he's pretty much my favorite (former)pro player. Pretty amazing how that works eh? Al the people in this forum that are trying to make it pro or make a living streaming keep that in mind. To make a fan for life all you need to do is interact with the person. Makes us feel special and we will support you for ever. In sc2 its how guys like destiny and MaximusBlack get good numbers even though they were never pro skill level. Tons of interaction. Hey guys, love all discussion and people on TL. Except for gtrsrs, but otherwise you are all great. You are all special in your own regard.
WE CAN SEE THROUGH YOUR LIES VLANI
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 28 2014 02:55 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 01:29 Sufficiency wrote:On March 28 2014 01:12 Fwmeh wrote:On March 27 2014 23:24 Sufficiency wrote:On March 27 2014 21:38 Fwmeh wrote:On March 27 2014 02:52 Sufficiency wrote:On March 27 2014 02:47 Eiii wrote:But wouldn't you rather see... average number of pentakills per normal game?!? + Show Spoiler ++---------------+--------+
| champion_name | num |
+---------------+--------+
| MasterYi | 0.0111 |
| Katarina | 0.0109 |
| Akali | 0.0064 |
| Jinx | 0.0051 |
| Draven | 0.0050 |
| Yasuo | 0.0049 |
| Fiora | 0.0048 |
| Vayne | 0.0046 |
| Tristana | 0.0039 |
| Khazix | 0.0038 |
| Mordekaiser | 0.0034 |
| Twitch | 0.0033 |
| Corki | 0.0030 |
| Lucian | 0.0029 |
| Quinn | 0.0028 |
| Graves | 0.0028 |
| Varus | 0.0025 |
| Jayce | 0.0024 |
| Riven | 0.0024 |
| Ezreal | 0.0023 |
| Cassiopeia | 0.0022 |
| Caitlyn | 0.0022 |
| Talon | 0.0021 |
| Sivir | 0.0020 |
| Swain | 0.0020 |
| MissFortune | 0.0019 |
| Ashe | 0.0018 |
| KogMaw | 0.0017 |
| Kassadin | 0.0017 |
| Tryndamere | 0.0017 |
| Fizz | 0.0017 |
| Jax | 0.0016 |
| Kayle | 0.0016 |
| Irelia | 0.0016 |
| Diana | 0.0015 |
| Darius | 0.0015 |
| Rengar | 0.0014 |
| Sion | 0.0014 |
| Zed | 0.0013 |
| Rumble | 0.0011 |
| FiddleSticks | 0.0011 |
| Viktor | 0.0011 |
| Teemo | 0.0011 |
| Ryze | 0.0011 |
| Pantheon | 0.0011 |
| Ziggs | 0.0010 |
| Gangplank | 0.0010 |
| Aatrox | 0.0010 |
| TwistedFate | 0.0009 |
| Evelynn | 0.0009 |
| Malzahar | 0.0009 |
| Orianna | 0.0009 |
| Poppy | 0.0008 |
| MonkeyKing | 0.0008 |
| Ahri | 0.0008 |
| Nocturne | 0.0008 |
| Vladimir | 0.0008 |
| Leblanc | 0.0008 |
| Anivia | 0.0008 |
| Nasus | 0.0008 |
| Gragas | 0.0007 |
| Brand | 0.0007 |
| XinZhao | 0.0007 |
| LeeSin | 0.0007 |
| Kennen | 0.0007 |
| Vi | 0.0006 |
| Xerath | 0.0006 |
| Skarner | 0.0006 |
| Syndra | 0.0006 |
| Karthus | 0.0006 |
| Veigar | 0.0006 |
| Volibear | 0.0006 |
| Shyvana | 0.0005 |
| Heimerdinger | 0.0005 |
| Shaco | 0.0005 |
| Olaf | 0.0005 |
| Annie | 0.0005 |
| Warwick | 0.0005 |
| Yorick | 0.0004 |
| Lux | 0.0004 |
| Amumu | 0.0004 |
| Nidalee | 0.0004 |
| Nunu | 0.0004 |
| Lulu | 0.0003 |
| Lissandra | 0.0003 |
| Renekton | 0.0003 |
| Hecarim | 0.0003 |
| Udyr | 0.0003 |
| Singed | 0.0002 |
| Rammus | 0.0002 |
| Elise | 0.0002 |
| JarvanIV | 0.0002 |
| Malphite | 0.0002 |
| Trundle | 0.0002 |
| Morgana | 0.0001 |
| DrMundo | 0.0001 |
| Garen | 0.0001 |
| Shen | 0.0001 |
| Thresh | 0.0001 |
| Alistar | 0.0001 |
| Nami | 0.0000 |
| Blitzcrank | 0.0000 |
| Galio | 0.0000 |
| Taric | 0.0000 |
| Sejuani | 0.0000 |
| Zyra | 0.0000 |
| Urgot | 0.0000 |
| Nautilus | 0.0000 |
| Sona | 0.0000 |
| Soraka | 0.0000 |
| Chogath | 0.0000 |
| Leona | 0.0000 |
| Karma | 0.0000 |
| Zac | 0.0000 |
| Janna | 0.0000 |
| Maokai | 0.0000 |
| Zilean | 0.0000 |
+---------------+--------+ By the way sufficiency, want to join forces on this whole data collection thing? Sure, but I didn't use databases... I am just dumping the data into CSV files... But yeah, I was thinking about the average number of pentas per champion, which weights the popularity of the champion. I was too lazy to do it though... Are you doing/planning to do some association rule mining on the data? What formating do you use? Association rule will be interesting, but that is not what I am doing. There are a few things that can be done. One of them is champion counter / synergy analysis. I am using logistic regression for that. I just thought that rule mining would be an easy way to find counters/synergies, if the data could feasibly be transformed to suit that. Don't have much experience with logistic regression myself. Association rule itself is fine, but you have to account for the overall power of a champion. For example, when you take a champion that wins around 50% of the time overall (say, Ashe), and pit her against a "bad" champion such as Twisted Fate, you will see significant increase in Ashe's win rate - simply because Twisted Fate is bad, not because Ashe counters Twisted Fate in particular. Adjustments have to be made to account for the overall power of the two champions in question. With regards to counters, it would be reasonable to look for rules indicating that a champion loses more games against one particular champion, compared to some baseline. Then you just use whatever minconf you feels is enough. I think it would be pretty straight forward, though I have not spent much time on it...
What you are saying is essentially what I am doing.
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this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut
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On March 26 2014 13:08 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 12:43 xes wrote:
Some of these NA challenger teams, despite being less coordinated than NA LCS big names, have impressed me with their in game strategy/movement way more than the cancer of watching Curse/post-week4-dignitas/Coast/XDG/EG play in LCS.
It may also be the tournament format is just more exciting as well. I think you gotta give EG some credit. I feel like in a lot of their games, they are very close to beating teams you wouldn't think they could beat going into the game. They lack the communication needed for an established team, but that's normal for their situation.
Give them credit for what? They're like 3-15 for a reason. The last thing EG deserves is credit.
On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut
That's about as accurate as saying someone "sounds" like a virgin.
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On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut
Are these types of comments really necessary?
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On March 28 2014 03:41 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut Are these types of comments really necessary?
yes
User was warned for this post
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On March 28 2014 03:42 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 03:41 Nemireck wrote:On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut Are these types of comments really necessary? yes
Man and I thought I was a shitposter
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On March 28 2014 03:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 03:42 arb wrote:On March 28 2014 03:41 Nemireck wrote:On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut Are these types of comments really necessary? yes Man and I thought I was a shitposter
I've made it here a long time I must be doing something right occasionally :x. I was told I have over 2 pages of mod notes once, though. since then i've been improving my posting.
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people dont like my posting but i dont think i've been banned yet or if i have been it was a long time ago and i dont remember :^)
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Just made this chart:
This compares game length, per champion, separated for the games which the said champion won vs lost.
The rationale here is that if a champion is strong early game and weak late game, we should expect his games to end a lot sooner when he wins, and a lot later when he loses.
Poor Viktor.... T_T
+ Show Spoiler +Game length is in seconds. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WOfHCsJ.png)
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On March 28 2014 03:46 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 03:43 Requizen wrote:On March 28 2014 03:42 arb wrote:On March 28 2014 03:41 Nemireck wrote:On March 28 2014 03:29 arb wrote:
this girl on qtpies stream sounds like a total slut Are these types of comments really necessary? yes Man and I thought I was a shitposter I've made it here a long time I must be doing something right occasionally :x. I was told I have over 2 pages of mod notes once, though. since then i've been improving my posting.
Despite what some people believe, people are able to change over time. They just need to be given additional chances.
You must believe that people are truly capable of doing good instead of being cynical about people's behaviors all the time.
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On March 28 2014 04:04 Sufficiency wrote:Just made this chart: This compares game length, per champion, separated for the games which the said champion won vs lost. The rationale here is that if a champion is strong early game and weak late game, we should expect his games to end a lot sooner when he wins, and a lot later when he loses. Poor Viktor.... T_T + Show Spoiler +Game length is in seconds.
Well poppy and karthus are the most lategame of champions. Not surprised at that, lategame poppy is the strongest champ in the game. Vayne being 3rd most lategame vs. kog in the middle is pretty telling. A team with a kog that's behind can't come back, most likely because kog can't avoid getting blown up by assassin's without flashing, while vayne can still survive.
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There's some interesting stuff on that list Suff.
Like according to said list Alistar and Teemo are late game champs.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:19 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 01:47 TheYango wrote:
It's also just more complex than that. Champion A might be a common pick in teamcomps that are good against champion B, but that doesn't mean that picking champion A in a vacuum will be good against champion B.
It's just muddled in general because you're basically using the working assumption that a team's strength is the sum of its components, when that's not remotely close to being true in this game. The problem is that the number of possible compositions and interaction terms will actually eat our degrees of freedom and make the calculation take way too long. In this case, assuming away those issue, even if you don't believe it, is probably the best option. So long as you state the caveat
Except in this case it assumes away so much as to no longer be useful for deriving all but the most obvious conclusions.
Personally, I've always had a very poor opinion of trying to analyze drafts through statistics (in both League and DotA) despite being a proponent of applying it to other aspects of the game. The assumptions that need to be made to analyze anything remove all validity they have. Drafting is simply a much more organic process than you can attempt to model with only a basic understanding, and the only people I've seen who really adhere to such statistical analyses on drafts are those with too poor of an understanding of the game to do otherwise.
Put simply, unless you can come up with a vastly better model than what's available, the oversimplifications currently available are so inadequate as to be useless.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On March 28 2014 04:21 TheYango wrote:
the only people I've seen who really adhere to such statistical analyses on drafts are those with too poor of an understanding of the game to do otherwise.
Put simply, unless you can come up with a vastly better model than what's available, the oversimplifications currently available are so inadequate as to be useless.
Mmm.
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On March 28 2014 04:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 02:19 Goumindong wrote:On March 28 2014 01:47 TheYango wrote:
It's also just more complex than that. Champion A might be a common pick in teamcomps that are good against champion B, but that doesn't mean that picking champion A in a vacuum will be good against champion B.
It's just muddled in general because you're basically using the working assumption that a team's strength is the sum of its components, when that's not remotely close to being true in this game. The problem is that the number of possible compositions and interaction terms will actually eat our degrees of freedom and make the calculation take way too long. In this case, assuming away those issue, even if you don't believe it, is probably the best option. So long as you state the caveat Except in this case it assumes away so much as to no longer be useful for deriving all but the most obvious conclusions. Personally, I've always had a very poor opinion of trying to analyze drafts through statistics (in both League and DotA) despite being a proponent of applying it to other aspects of the game. The assumptions that need to be made to analyze anything remove all validity they have. Drafting is simply a much more organic process than you can attempt to model with only a basic understanding, and the only people I've seen who really adhere to such statistical analyses on drafts are those with too poor of an understanding of the game to do otherwise. Put simply, unless you can come up with a vastly better model than what's available, the oversimplifications currently available are so inadequate as to be useless.
When there are 10 players in a game (i.e. 10 variables), analyzing all possible interactions (even just for 2 way interactions) is quite difficult, regardless of sample size. Very few people go for higher level interactions.
Even statistical analyses on NEJM won't utilize models that complicated.
On March 28 2014 04:20 Ketara wrote:
There's some interesting stuff on that list Suff.
Like according to said list Alistar and Teemo are late game champs.
This is what the data says. I am not interpreting the result at all - I only said what I think the result can be interpreted as.
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On March 28 2014 04:31 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 04:21 TheYango wrote:On March 28 2014 02:19 Goumindong wrote:On March 28 2014 01:47 TheYango wrote:
It's also just more complex than that. Champion A might be a common pick in teamcomps that are good against champion B, but that doesn't mean that picking champion A in a vacuum will be good against champion B.
It's just muddled in general because you're basically using the working assumption that a team's strength is the sum of its components, when that's not remotely close to being true in this game. The problem is that the number of possible compositions and interaction terms will actually eat our degrees of freedom and make the calculation take way too long. In this case, assuming away those issue, even if you don't believe it, is probably the best option. So long as you state the caveat Except in this case it assumes away so much as to no longer be useful for deriving all but the most obvious conclusions. Personally, I've always had a very poor opinion of trying to analyze drafts through statistics (in both League and DotA) despite being a proponent of applying it to other aspects of the game. The assumptions that need to be made to analyze anything remove all validity they have. Drafting is simply a much more organic process than you can attempt to model with only a basic understanding, and the only people I've seen who really adhere to such statistical analyses on drafts are those with too poor of an understanding of the game to do otherwise. Put simply, unless you can come up with a vastly better model than what's available, the oversimplifications currently available are so inadequate as to be useless. When there are 10 players in a game (i.e. 10 variables), analyzing all possible interactions (even just for 2 way interactions) is quite difficult, regardless of sample size. Very few people go for higher level interactions. Even statistical analyses on NEJM won't utilize models that complicated.
Please don't drop the "I am a medical researcher" line. It is reserved for Guomin "I am an economist" Dang.
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EPT
