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On March 07 2013 09:12 Ketara wrote:
Here's a discussion point for everybody.
I'm playing around with Ask Mr Robot and looking at item builds for Tristana. I was wondering how good Youmuu's worked into an item rotation. I did a standard ADC mastery setup with a full Armor Pen rune page.
What I found was that a build of IE, BotRK, LW, Youmuu's, does the most DPS in end game builds as long as the target has less than 400 armor, even when you tell it to not include active items. It outdamaged IE, BotRK, LW, PD.
It's surprising to me that the 20 ArPen on Youmuu would be so effective. Is Ask Mr Robot buggy? Or should we start investigating Youmuu's as a *gasp* legit item?
You can link Ask Mr. Robot setups. When you ask these sorts of questions it's helpful to do so.
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United States47024 Posts
It's because you're using BotRK instead of BT as your Lifesteal item, and BotRK doesn't benefit at all from itemized crit but DOES benefit from armor pen. If you use Bloodthirster instead of BotRK, the DPS breaks even at ~100 armor for IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BotRK+GB, even if the target has 3000 HP. For IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BT+GB, breakeven is like 130 armor.
Also note that the BT DOES outperform BotRK at 6-item lategame. IE+BT+PD+LW outdps-es IE+BotRK+PD+LW at all achievable health values (breakeven is like 6k+ max HP).
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I HAVE THE CLASSIC KARMA YES
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Edit.
Moved to char discussion
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On March 07 2013 09:48 Sufficiency wrote:I HAVE THE CLASSIC KARMA YES
you and everyone else with 3150ip before the relaunch hits live.
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On March 07 2013 09:50 Parametric wrote:you and everyone else with 3150ip before the relaunch hits live.
Oh 
Oh well.
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They said they'd do that for a few years now
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On March 07 2013 09:38 TheYango wrote:
Also note that the BT DOES outperform BotRK at 6-item lategame. IE+BT+PD+LW outdps-es IE+BotRK+PD+LW at all achievable health values (breakeven is like 6k+ max HP).
Can i see your math on this or can you recomend me some tools to check it myself?
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United States47024 Posts
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Omg free Karma skin so buying her now, Riot genius
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Well I guess I have to buy karma now. Can't give up a champ + skin, even if it is Karma.
Hopefully ARAM RNG gods are nice to me.
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gg just bought hecarim, cant buy karma now.
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On March 07 2013 09:38 TheYango wrote:
It's because you're using BotRK instead of BT as your Lifesteal item, and BotRK doesn't benefit at all from itemized crit but DOES benefit from armor pen. If you use Bloodthirster instead of BotRK, the DPS breaks even at ~100 armor for IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BotRK+GB, even if the target has 3000 HP. For IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BT+GB, breakeven is like 130 armor.
Also note that the BT DOES outperform BotRK at 6-item lategame. IE+BT+PD+LW outdps-es IE+BotRK+PD+LW at all achievable health values (breakeven is like 6k+ max HP).
From what I'm looking at, IE+LW+BT+PD, at least on Tristana, doesn't outdamage IE+LW+BotRK+GB unless the target has a combination of both high armor (more than 250) and low HP (less than 2500). At 2500 HP and 250 armor they look roughly the same.
I'm kind of a noob with Ask Mr Robot, and ADC's in general, but is it suggesting that if you're going to get BotRK instead of BT, you should also be getting Ghostblade?
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Iron Stylus:
We are NOT making her a stripper or ANYTHING CLOSE. I have made EXTRA SURE that visual rework efforts steered away from this trend. We are retaining classy and elegant. There might be a bit more skin but it's going to be damn tasteful.
Karma proceeds to:
Yup, going from robes and flat-chested to naked thighs and hyper busty not in contradiction with past statements at all.
Brb buying Karma, that traditional skin actually looks better than the new default.
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On March 07 2013 10:27 Alaric wrote:Iron Stylus: Show nested quote +We are NOT making her a stripper or ANYTHING CLOSE. I have made EXTRA SURE that visual rework efforts steered away from this trend. We are retaining classy and elegant. There might be a bit more skin but it's going to be damn tasteful. Karma proceeds to: Yup, going from robes and flat-chested to naked thighs and hyper busty not in contradiction with past statements at all. Brb buying Karma, that traditional skin actually looks better than the new default.
In his defense it IS tasteful... if you know what I mean. Hue.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2013 10:08 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 09:38 TheYango wrote:
It's because you're using BotRK instead of BT as your Lifesteal item, and BotRK doesn't benefit at all from itemized crit but DOES benefit from armor pen. If you use Bloodthirster instead of BotRK, the DPS breaks even at ~100 armor for IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BotRK+GB, even if the target has 3000 HP. For IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BT+GB, breakeven is like 130 armor.
Also note that the BT DOES outperform BotRK at 6-item lategame. IE+BT+PD+LW outdps-es IE+BotRK+PD+LW at all achievable health values (breakeven is like 6k+ max HP). From what I'm looking at, IE+LW+BT+PD, at least on Tristana, doesn't outdamage IE+LW+BotRK+GB unless the target has a combination of both high armor (more than 250) and low HP (less than 2500). At 2500 HP and 250 armor they look roughly the same. I'm kind of a noob with Ask Mr Robot, and ADC's in general, but is it suggesting that if you're going to get BotRK instead of BT, you should also be getting Ghostblade?
Are you buying everything in one trip? Ask Mr. Robot doesn't count BT stacks unless you let time pass after purchasing BT (extra shop trips). If you have two identical builds both containing BT, but one is in a single shop trip and the other has BT purchased first and the other items later, the one that bought BT first and had time to "pick up stacks" has higher damage.
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On March 07 2013 10:27 Alaric wrote:Iron Stylus: Show nested quote +We are NOT making her a stripper or ANYTHING CLOSE. I have made EXTRA SURE that visual rework efforts steered away from this trend. We are retaining classy and elegant. There might be a bit more skin but it's going to be damn tasteful. Karma proceeds to: Yup, going from robes and flat-chested to naked thighs and hyper busty not in contradiction with past statements at all. Brb buying Karma, that traditional skin actually looks better than the new default.
Because remember kids if you have anything beyond a B cup and show some leg you are a stripper. Give me a break..
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On March 07 2013 10:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 10:08 Ketara wrote:On March 07 2013 09:38 TheYango wrote:
It's because you're using BotRK instead of BT as your Lifesteal item, and BotRK doesn't benefit at all from itemized crit but DOES benefit from armor pen. If you use Bloodthirster instead of BotRK, the DPS breaks even at ~100 armor for IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BotRK+GB, even if the target has 3000 HP. For IE+LW+BT+PD vs IE+LW+BT+GB, breakeven is like 130 armor.
Also note that the BT DOES outperform BotRK at 6-item lategame. IE+BT+PD+LW outdps-es IE+BotRK+PD+LW at all achievable health values (breakeven is like 6k+ max HP). From what I'm looking at, IE+LW+BT+PD, at least on Tristana, doesn't outdamage IE+LW+BotRK+GB unless the target has a combination of both high armor (more than 250) and low HP (less than 2500). At 2500 HP and 250 armor they look roughly the same. I'm kind of a noob with Ask Mr Robot, and ADC's in general, but is it suggesting that if you're going to get BotRK instead of BT, you should also be getting Ghostblade? Are you buying everything in one trip? Ask Mr. Robot doesn't count BT stacks unless you let time pass after purchasing BT (extra shop trips). If you have two identical builds both containing BT, but one is in a single shop trip and the other has BT purchased first and the other items later, the one that bought BT first and had time to "pick up stacks" has higher damage.
The BT build has it buying BT as the first item. I had a gazillion shopping trips set up.
I just tried to save and link the thing and it prompted me to register and login, and when I did it returned me to a blank page with no extra builds made. I'll redo it a bit later and give you a link if you want.
It seems entirely reasonable to me that Tristana prefers BotRK over BT, since she has no AD ratios at all and her AS steroid is so large. But I don't know if I'm doing the math right.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media-titanium.cursecdn.com/attachments/46/521/634981773368937511.png)
