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On January 02 2012 01:08 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:05 starfries wrote:On January 02 2012 00:58 JackDino wrote:
If an official Rioter doesn't pay attention on stream, do you think other people will pay attention or just pick whatever they want simply because they weren't paying attention. Making a crappy pick is not even a bannable offense, SV wasn't banned for hard randoming jungle. Comparing that to SV and abusing ban power is ridiculous. I'm comparing it to the fact that streamers should set an example. She wasn't communicating, she made a bad pick, she acted pretty shitty in general. As a streaming Rioter she should pay some attention and have a happy attitude, or turn off the stream.
Riot can just ask her not to stream if she's going to be like that, problem solved. I just have a problem with the people who are making it out like she should be banned for it.
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On January 02 2012 01:11 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:08 JackDino wrote:On January 02 2012 01:05 starfries wrote:On January 02 2012 00:58 JackDino wrote:
If an official Rioter doesn't pay attention on stream, do you think other people will pay attention or just pick whatever they want simply because they weren't paying attention. Making a crappy pick is not even a bannable offense, SV wasn't banned for hard randoming jungle. Comparing that to SV and abusing ban power is ridiculous. I'm comparing it to the fact that streamers should set an example. She wasn't communicating, she made a bad pick, she acted pretty shitty in general. As a streaming Rioter she should pay some attention and have a happy attitude, or turn off the stream. Riot can just ask her not to stream if she's going to be like that, problem solved. I just have a problem with the people who are making it out like she should be banned for it.
I consider this somewhat worse than the psyonic incident because he wasn't a well known rioter like rara was nor did he stream it, it doesn't even matter if she gets banned for it but what she did was quite bad reputation wise and all, also hypocrit riot.
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On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs.
hog builds into that defensive aura against AD carrys too. its not like hog is just hog
On January 02 2012 01:11 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:08 JackDino wrote:On January 02 2012 01:05 starfries wrote:On January 02 2012 00:58 JackDino wrote:
If an official Rioter doesn't pay attention on stream, do you think other people will pay attention or just pick whatever they want simply because they weren't paying attention. Making a crappy pick is not even a bannable offense, SV wasn't banned for hard randoming jungle. Comparing that to SV and abusing ban power is ridiculous. I'm comparing it to the fact that streamers should set an example. She wasn't communicating, she made a bad pick, she acted pretty shitty in general. As a streaming Rioter she should pay some attention and have a happy attitude, or turn off the stream. Riot can just ask her not to stream if she's going to be like that, problem solved. I just have a problem with the people who are making it out like she should be banned for it.
their reasoning for insta banning SV rather than tribunal and warnings and whatever was because as a streamer he is setting an example for more than just 10 people in that game, she, as a streamer AND a riot employee needs to hold herself to even higher standards.
i personally dont care if they think she should be banned or not, what i hate is hypocrisy. if they are sticking by their choice to ban SV then they need to ban her too
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On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs.
You continuous make the leap in logic that since second g/10 is worth it on support, it MUST be worth it on AD carry because they can get it even earlier. Even though people repeatedly tell you that you cannot make such a leap in logic because AD carries want to put themselves in a position to snowball. If i wanted to give my Sona a better chance to snowball I must just get that kindlegem, but I know it's not gonna happen so I take my HoG. On an AD carry I have a decent chance of snowballing so I take another Dblade over a d/10.
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On January 02 2012 01:36 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:11 starfries wrote:On January 02 2012 01:08 JackDino wrote:On January 02 2012 01:05 starfries wrote:On January 02 2012 00:58 JackDino wrote:
If an official Rioter doesn't pay attention on stream, do you think other people will pay attention or just pick whatever they want simply because they weren't paying attention. Making a crappy pick is not even a bannable offense, SV wasn't banned for hard randoming jungle. Comparing that to SV and abusing ban power is ridiculous. I'm comparing it to the fact that streamers should set an example. She wasn't communicating, she made a bad pick, she acted pretty shitty in general. As a streaming Rioter she should pay some attention and have a happy attitude, or turn off the stream. Riot can just ask her not to stream if she's going to be like that, problem solved. I just have a problem with the people who are making it out like she should be banned for it. I consider this somewhat worse than the psyonic incident because he wasn't a well known rioter like rara was nor did he stream it, it doesn't even matter if she gets banned for it but what she did was quite bad reputation wise and all, also hypocrit riot.
You really think it's worse than abusing ban powers? Really?
Did you actually watch the stream? Multiple people in the thread said that it was made by one guy who got kicked out of her IRC for trolling in order to make her look bad and in fact her behavior was fine. The fact that the forums are very quick to jump on the "Riot is evil" bandwagon after hearing one side of the story is depressing.
On January 02 2012 01:45 turdburgler wrote:
their reasoning for insta banning SV rather than tribunal and warnings and whatever was because as a streamer he is setting an example for more than just 10 people in that game, she, as a streamer AND a riot employee needs to hold herself to even higher standards.
i personally dont care if they think she should be banned or not, what i hate is hypocrisy. if they are sticking by their choice to ban SV then they need to ban her too
What she supposedly did is very different from what SV did.
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It's not about what she did was different from SV or not, it's about setting a high quality example as a Riot streamer.
I can't remember the psy incident too well but it's not abusing ban powers if it's a well deserved ban.
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On January 02 2012 01:58 JackDino wrote:
It's not about what she did was different from SV or not, it's about setting a high quality example as a Riot streamer.
So did you actually watch the stream? People who played in that game and watched her stream said her behavior was fine and the thread was just taking things out of context.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 02 2012 01:45 turdburgler wrote:
hog builds into that defensive aura against AD carrys too. its not like hog is just hog
Like you're ever going to finish Randuin's on a support.
From the practical standpoint of a support, HoG IS just HoG.
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On January 02 2012 02:01 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:58 JackDino wrote:
It's not about what she did was different from SV or not, it's about setting a high quality example as a Riot streamer. So did you actually watch the stream? People who played in that game and watched her stream said her behavior was fine and the thread was just taking things out of context.
I haven't seen it but I don't need to see it if everyone says she didn't pay attention during champ select and messed up picks which caused them to lose the game.
If I don't pay attention to champ select and just pick something I'm going to get reported for trolling, and eventually banned. But why should I be banned, I thought it's no big deal to ignore champ select, that's what I've learned from Rara stream. It's not the first time she messed up picks because of this.
I think it's great that she hasn't responded to the thread tho, but as a rioter you really gotta be careful with what you do on stream.
She made 1 mistake(which she really really shouldn't have made) and immediatly forums explode with negative topics, wether it's true or made up it's bad publicity, bad for riot and the players.
On January 02 2012 02:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:45 turdburgler wrote:
hog builds into that defensive aura against AD carrys too. its not like hog is just hog
Like you're ever going to finish Randuin's on a support. From the practical standpoint of a support, HoG IS just HoG.
Even if you can finish Randuins, if you actually have enough gold for randuins wota or starks are better 90% of the time.
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Arranged 5s would have been so much easier if you could decide who has X pick (from what i've noticed it followes the rules of "game creator goes first, then something semirandom")
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On January 02 2012 02:31 JackDino wrote:
If I don't pay attention to champ select and just pick something I'm going to get reported for trolling, and eventually banned.
No, you're not. Because it's not a bannable offense. If you're not going to read, please don't post. Anyways apologies for shitting up the thread with this stuff. I'm done, I promise.
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it seems that as time passes, this thread becomes more and more useful
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On January 02 2012 02:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:45 turdburgler wrote:
hog builds into that defensive aura against AD carrys too. its not like hog is just hog
Like you're ever going to finish Randuin's on a support. From the practical standpoint of a support, HoG IS just HoG.
Clearly you don't play tank soraka like me.
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Tank/bait soraka is what I deemed mine. You steal cs get q early and get kills and go shurelyas/randuins/fon and run around baiting with heal and tank items or if they ignore you spam starcall to death, max E last and Q first.
And tank runes with armour quints or gp/10 with ninja tabi.
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On January 02 2012 01:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs. You continuous make the leap in logic that since second g/10 is worth it on support, it MUST be worth it on AD carry because they can get it even earlier. Even though people repeatedly tell you that you cannot make such a leap in logic because AD carries want to put themselves in a position to snowball. If i wanted to give my Sona a better chance to snowball I must just get that kindlegem, but I know it's not gonna happen so I take my HoG. On an AD carry I have a decent chance of snowballing so I take another Dblade over a d/10.
I make that leap because a fricken early Reverie gives your WHOLE TEAM a "chance of snowballing". This is not a game of 5 1v1s. If my support has a Reverie and the enemy support has Philo HoG Kage/Kindlegem, and everyone else is on equal footing, then my team is going to WIN the next fight. If it's the other way round, my team is going to LOSE the next fight.
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On January 02 2012 01:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs. You continuous make the leap in logic that since second g/10 is worth it on support, it MUST be worth it on AD carry because they can get it even earlier. Even though people repeatedly tell you that you cannot make such a leap in logic because AD carries want to put themselves in a position to snowball. If i wanted to give my Sona a better chance to snowball I must just get that kindlegem, but I know it's not gonna happen so I take my HoG. On an AD carry I have a decent chance of snowballing so I take another Dblade over a d/10.
the only decent gp10 items on ad or avaric and philo stone, and i don't even pick those up unless my lane phase is complete and utter shit.
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On January 02 2012 03:04 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:46 Feartheguru wrote:On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs. You continuous make the leap in logic that since second g/10 is worth it on support, it MUST be worth it on AD carry because they can get it even earlier. Even though people repeatedly tell you that you cannot make such a leap in logic because AD carries want to put themselves in a position to snowball. If i wanted to give my Sona a better chance to snowball I must just get that kindlegem, but I know it's not gonna happen so I take my HoG. On an AD carry I have a decent chance of snowballing so I take another Dblade over a d/10. I make that leap because a fricken early Reverie gives your WHOLE TEAM a "chance of snowballing". This is not a game of 5 1v1s. If my support has a Reverie and the enemy support has Philo HoG Kage/Kindlegem, and everyone else is on equal footing, then my team is going to WIN the next fight. If it's the other way round, my team is going to LOSE the next fight.
However after they both have reveries the other support has more gold and their team will WIN the next fight and your team will LOSE the next fight.
However if you die and the other support lives with 100 hp you will LOSE the fight.
ETC.
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On January 02 2012 03:00 Slayer91 wrote:
Tank/bait soraka is what I deemed mine. You steal cs get q early and get kills and go shurelyas/randuins/fon and run around baiting with heal and tank items or if they ignore you spam starcall to death, max E last and Q first.
And tank runes with armour quints or gp/10 with ninja tabi.
This is what I do.
0/9/21 masteries
armor red, gp10 yellow, mr/lvl blues, gp10 quints.
opening build.
fairie charm, 2 regular wards, 1 vision ward. and some pots.
1st trip back
philo stone, hog
2nd trip
boots (merc, or ionian, depends).
3rd.
kage's lucky pick.
4th. w.e tank gear i need, warmogs is usually needed, or I substitute with Shurylias + soul shroud.
but i never steal cs from my carry though, due to my superior gp10 item and runes. I only take cs when my carry has to go back.
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On January 02 2012 03:09 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 03:04 spinesheath wrote:On January 02 2012 01:46 Feartheguru wrote:On January 01 2012 23:49 spinesheath wrote:On January 01 2012 23:29 JackDino wrote:
Except a dblade lets you trade better than a philo on an AD, having a hp crystal or a cloth armour won't let you trade that much more than having a philo, and the philo gives you some gold at the same time. That Philo isn't even subject of the discussion. The HoG and possibly even Pick after the Philo is. For the Philo it is easy to explain why you get it: HP5, MP5 and it builds into Reverie. The gold/10 is a bonus. Now that this current-metagame-support has a Philo, he opts for a HoG next. Why? Kindlegem is of comparable cost, slightly less HP, 10 CDR extra. And it ALSO builds into Reverie. This would only make sense if the gold/10 was extremely good (it has to compare to a fricken 3 sec 40% team wide MSpd boost, which HoG delays by like 8 minutes). And ONLY IF it is so good, I raise the question why nobody gets it on ADs. You continuous make the leap in logic that since second g/10 is worth it on support, it MUST be worth it on AD carry because they can get it even earlier. Even though people repeatedly tell you that you cannot make such a leap in logic because AD carries want to put themselves in a position to snowball. If i wanted to give my Sona a better chance to snowball I must just get that kindlegem, but I know it's not gonna happen so I take my HoG. On an AD carry I have a decent chance of snowballing so I take another Dblade over a d/10. I make that leap because a fricken early Reverie gives your WHOLE TEAM a "chance of snowballing". This is not a game of 5 1v1s. If my support has a Reverie and the enemy support has Philo HoG Kage/Kindlegem, and everyone else is on equal footing, then my team is going to WIN the next fight. If it's the other way round, my team is going to LOSE the next fight. However after they both have reveries the other support has more gold and their team will WIN the next fight and your team will LOSE the next fight. However if you die and the other support lives with 100 hp you will LOSE the fight. ETC.
You shouldn't die if you have reverie and hte other team doesn't, just run away or whatever. Thing is, if you win that first fight then you'll be way ahead even if the other support gets the reverie.
I don't agree that having reverie autowins teamfight if everyone else has equal items though, there are a lot of factors to consider. It does help though. I usually go philo into aegis, get my aegis around 20mins with plenty of wards if my lane is doing well.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 02 2012 03:09 Shikyo wrote:
However after they both have reveries the other support has more gold and their team will WIN the next fight and your team will LOSE the next fight.
If the support with Reverie earlier wins 1 fight with it, the support gold gained from a won fight and an objective taken afterwards will significantly outstrip the extra gold from a HoG. 190 gold from Dragon + 3 assists at 50 gold per assist is is 340 gold, which takes more than 10 minutes for HoG to catch up to.
On January 02 2012 03:09 Shikyo wrote:
However if you die and the other support lives with 100 hp you will LOSE the fight.
I would argue that for similar cost, Kindlegem is a BETTER survivability boost than HoG--since most supports have low-medium cooldown defensive skills, 10% CDR helps you survive better than the 50 more HP on HoG.
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EPT
