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[Guide] Ranged Physical Carry

Forum Index > LoL General
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Smgzy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-09 07:37:27
November 08 2010 05:41 GMT
#1
Felt like making some sort of contribution so here it is. I've played a fair bit of ranged carries in 1800+ 5v5 premades so I figured I would share a few things that I've learned.

I suppose physical carry might not be the correct title, but I'll say that because this is a general guide for any champion that relies on auto attacking as their primary source of damage in the late game.

This is an extremely general guide. Item builds and playstyles may vary from champion to champion, and I just use one general build that works across the most generic of physical carry playstyle.

The champions that fall into this category:

Miss Fortune
Ashe
Tristana
Corki
Kog Maw
Twitch
Ezreal
Sivir
Twisted Fate
Teemo(normally AP setup but can be built AD)
Kennen(normally AP setup but can be built AD)

+ Show Spoiler [Rune Setup] +
9x Armor Pen Reds
9x mana regen/5@level 18
9x mana regen/5@level 18
3x Flat Health Quint


+ Show Spoiler [Mastery Setup] +
21/0/9


+ Show Spoiler [Summoner Spells] +
Flash / Ghost
Flash / Cleanse


+ Show Spoiler [Typical Item Build] +
3x Dorans Blade
Mercury Treads / Berserker's Greaves
Infinity Edge
Last Whisper

These items are the key ones that you will be wanting to get. Anyone with a strong auto attack will melt just about any champion on the other team once you get these items.

Typically after this you would want to build some sort of survivability. Use your brain and see what the other team has and build accordingly. It never hurts to just get more damage.


+ Show Spoiler [Early Game] +
Last hit as much as possible.

You are probably solo mid or top if you are attempting to carry. If you do not know your champion that well, I would suggest you try to keep the enemy creeps up into your own tower as far as you can, that means last hitting only, NO AUTO ATTACKING. At the very least, make sure you are doing less damage to the enemy creeps than your opponent. I might suggest a different strategy for more advanced players, but this is a very safe and effective way to lane.

If you can get some harass in, do it. If the creeps are constantly pushed up into your tower, or past the half way point anyway, you are setting your jungler up for a gank.

As soon as you go to the lane, I would suggest you test how much aggression you can get away with, and how the other man is going to react to it. If they are really bad they won't know how to respond to your aggression which let you keep them low enough to free farm or even kill them.


+ Show Spoiler [First shop] +
Assuming you don't have to shop because you had a fight, shop at around 1300-1400 gold. Pick up 2 more dorans blades, boots, and 2 wards(one ward for top lane). When you come back to mid, ward both bushes on each side of the lane. It doesn't matter too much if you are obvious about it or not. Being obvious might stop anyone from even trying to gank you at all.

If you really need the health potions because of heavy harassment, pick one or two up as well. The life leech from your dorans should have you feeling pretty comfortable at this point. With both sides of the lane warded, you can probably auto a little more and push the lane if you are feeling like it will be beneficial to you in some way (denying them farm by pushing creeps into the tower).

Ashe/Ezreal players feel free to use your ult to try to set up or score a kill. Don't feel like you have to hold it in forever. Also see note about skill usage below.


+ Show Spoiler [Second Shop] +
BF Sword, More wards.

Hopefully you are doing well at this point. Don't be afraid to roam if you see an opportunity. If you have a mapwide ult, take a chance if you see one. People might laugh at you for missing horribly but who cares at least you are using your skills. You can pretty much farm anything you want comfortably from here on out. The life leech will keep you rolling. If there are jungle creeps up you can rotate between creep waves and kill some jungle as well.


+ Show Spoiler [shop 2.5] +
If you do have to go back to shop again soon, and you only have enough for the crit cloak, and not pickaxe(component for infinity edge) go ahead and get that. The math is extremely close on average damage between pickaxe and cloak. Don't worry about saving up for the pickaxe if you can get the cloak right there. Get it.


+ Show Spoiler [Infinity Edge] +
As soon as you get this item, you will notice a gigantic damage boost. If you can get +300 gold beyond your infnity edge before you shop, I would very very highly recommend getting an agility potion and holding it in your inv. Agility Potion + Inf Edge from neither of those items is a sick damage boost. You will be happy when you shoot people.

If it's around 20-25 minutes and you have these items, you should be saying to your team "i'm ready to kill people now" because you will be quite ahead. You should roam around and try to pick of kills if people are still laning.


+ Show Spoiler [25 minutes+] +
In any reasonable game, teams will be for the most part grouping up around 25-35 minutes in if the game isn't over already. If you can slip away and gobble up a nice creep wave, definitely go for it. A lot of times teams will dance around in a lane doing nothing, so I would suggest at this time try to push a lane up and then slip off when they react to you. You might be able to get a tower if they decide to fight 4v5 (in solo queue you really have no control over this, sometimes teams will just fight without you, so in general, i'd say it's best to just kill the tower if you really won't be able to make it at all).


+ Show Spoiler [Roaming With The Team] +
If your team is roaming around, try to stay a reasonable distance behind them at all times, enough so that you don't get caught in whatever ult: Amumu, Galio, Tibbers etc. that they might have.

If your team initiates on them well, just go in and be as aggressive as you can. You're going to have to make a judgement call here.

If the initiation is medium, wait a little bit for the other team to blow some of their nice skills, then go in.

If the initiation is bad, or the other team catches you off guard, stay back and try to find a good timing to slip and and pick one or two kills.


Misc Info:

Side note about skill usage in the lane:

Some players will see that you have used your global ultimate, and if the fight is close in mid they will know once you have used it that they can push you out of the lane because you won't be able to fight them. You can use this to your advantage as well for example in ashe vs tristana. If you are tristana and the opposing ashe player shoots her ult off, you will definitely be able to kill her in mid if she tries to fight you assuming HP/Items are relatively even.

Pay attention to the cooldowns of your opposing laner and try to get some free harass in while their skills are down. You have the upper hand for a short time because you can use an ability on them. (ie: you see ashe volley some creeps-- on tristana, you immediately rocket jump on her and hit her with your E skill and start auto attacking her). You are guaranteed to be doing more damage than her at that point.

Watch what your team is doing.

A lot of times, tanks will bee line for the other team's carry, if so, you pretty much have 0% chance to make it to that man, so no reason to shoot him. If you have last whisper, shooting tanks isn't a horrible idea, a lot of times you have no choice if 1/2 tanks are stuck on you. Go for support / squishies if you aren't being boxed out by enemy tanks.

If your tanks go on their tanks, then they will probably be near you to help you out. This is where you have to go for priority targets no matter what. Shoot the other team's AP / AD carry and kill him.

Dealing With Assassins:

There are a lot of characters that will fly onto your face and try to burst you down or just plain stick on you (warwick, akali). If nobody is assisting you with these characters your best option might be to run. If akali / shaco are giving you trouble a vision ward or oracles isn't out of the question, although it sort of sucks to spend your gold on items like this.

If the other team is focusing you HARD:

Here are some options for different situations:

Cleanse, then flash backwards and keep shooting them. This is the ultimate twitch strategy that every good twitch player does. You can normally kill whoever was on you by the time they close the flash distance.

Flash over a wall and run back into the fight: Once you are over a wall, the chances of someone chasing you is extremely low. Find a good position to run back into the fight and hopefully catch someone off guard and kill them

Run away. Sometimes you have to run or you will die. You can only really learn this over time.

Very Low HP: Once people stop chasing you, assuming you are extremely low HP, you might be able to hang out around the edge of a fight and throw some skills in (ashe volley, ezreal Q, etc.). Be prepared to run again the moment you see anyone even look at you.

Positioning:

Positioning is extremely important. I mentioned above that you should almost always stay out of range of your initiators so that you don't get caught off guard. You have to remember, if you are playing well, the other team will want to kill you very badly, much earlier than anyone else, so preserving your life is by far the most important thing you can do. Don't get caught out of position. Play smart and try to stay alive as long as you can.

Keys to winning:

Early Infinity Edge + Green Pot
Great positioning in team fights
Decision making skills over a variety of situations
Use your brain

Wrap Up

I'm not really sure what else there is besides all of the things that are absolutely 100% situational. If I figure out an easy way of helping to be more aware, I will let you know. Other ways of learning I would say is jsut trying to predict where the other team might be at all times. Eventually you will see a pattern appear. If you know the general timings of when the buffs are up and you see someone disappear, you can expect them to be there. It's just a matter of learning the timings. Let me know if you have any questions or if I forgot anything or even if this just completely sucks.

r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
November 08 2010 06:53 GMT
#2
Smugzor you should stream more srs games instead of just the trolling ones, you guys are terrible at the game but at least have 5+ years of coordination behind you, honestly that's the only thing that keeps you going.
Smgzy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States187 Posts
November 08 2010 07:01 GMT
#3
On November 08 2010 15:53 r33k wrote:
Smugzor you should stream more srs games instead of just the trolling ones, you guys are terrible at the game but at least have 5+ years of coordination behind you, honestly that's the only thing that keeps you going.


there are no serious games to be played. only waiting 60 minutes for the same bad ones.
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
November 08 2010 07:10 GMT
#4
You got the commentary going for you, I'll give you that.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
November 08 2010 09:16 GMT
#5
Eew HP quints? At least put Armour Pen as an option, if not the standard. Also, 21/0/9 I think is less 'standard' than x/x/21 on ranged physical carry.

Everything else is cool though. GJ
cool beans
0123456789
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3216 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 15:42:31
November 08 2010 15:42 GMT
#6
On November 08 2010 18:16 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
Eew HP quints? At least put Armour Pen as an option, if not the standard. Also, 21/0/9 I think is less 'standard' than x/x/21 on ranged physical carry.

Everything else is cool though. GJ


x/x/21 is not optimal on ranged carries some ranged carries like tristana, twitch, teemo, MF, and others.

Maybe only on mana dependant carries like ezreal, sivir, ashe, corki.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 08 2010 15:44 GMT
#7
On November 09 2010 00:42 0123456789 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2010 18:16 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
Eew HP quints? At least put Armour Pen as an option, if not the standard. Also, 21/0/9 I think is less 'standard' than x/x/21 on ranged physical carry.

Everything else is cool though. GJ


x/x/21 is not optimal on ranged carries some ranged carries like tristana, twitch, teemo, MF, and others.

Maybe only on mana dependant carries like ezreal, sivir, ashe, corki.

x/x/21 gives you more flashes and more ghosts though. I know good twitches run 21/0/9, but I think the other three you listed are better off with heavy utility.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 16:40:30
November 08 2010 16:36 GMT
#8
the 21 point in offense only improves the base damage of attacks and spells, so any AP or AD you buy is completely unaffected by it which is why it is so lackluster. I can see Twitch going that far in but really that's it, unless you are intending to build some 100% crit strike style and want the extra crit damage, though that is beyond the scope of this guide.

21 into Utility is so powerful it just outshines the meager damage increase of full offense builds, more flash / ghost / cleansing can and will change games whereas the extra 5% is less then another auto-attack

E: In regards to the runes, I find MRes / lvl blues to be much more effective then the MP5pl ones. Reason being most of the damage directed at you will be magical as burst (akali, WW [from BR], kassadin etc) or even CC rarely deals physical damage. That being said, it's cheaper to buy armor then it is MRes as well
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
November 08 2010 18:20 GMT
#9
MR blue > mp5/lvl blue on most i think
exceptions being pokers like ashe, ezreal, corki
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
November 08 2010 18:57 GMT
#10
Imo many ranged DPS don't really need any MP5 runes if they don't spam mindlessly and have Meditation maxed. Even without any points in Meditation or runes I do fine with champs like Trist and Twitch, even IE Ashe (Volley isn't that awesome if you build around IE).

So usually that frees up the seals and glyphs for defense (Armor/MRes), or offense (crit chance is awesome if you get IE).
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
November 08 2010 19:09 GMT
#11
On November 09 2010 03:57 spinesheath wrote:
Imo many ranged DPS don't really need any MP5 runes if they don't spam mindlessly and have Meditation maxed. Even without any points in Meditation or runes I do fine with champs like Trist and Twitch, even IE Ashe (Volley isn't that awesome if you build around IE).

So usually that frees up the seals and glyphs for defense (Armor/MRes), or offense (crit chance is awesome if you get IE).


An Ashe that isn't spamming Volley(in a way that is hitting the other player) is going to get wrecked in lane because that's her only advantage. Also in team fights there is no reason not to spam it on cooldown, and you can run oom quick riding someone with frost arrows. Ashe might actually be 2nd on the list of mana hogging ranged carries behind Corki... but he gets manamune.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
November 08 2010 19:12 GMT
#12
armor pen quint/red mp5 ylw/blue on all and ill use tihs 90% of the time
i also like my full armor ( flat mres blues) page on ranged carries (still experimenting )

flat ad quints / armor pen reds on ezreal is also pretty good, i use it time to time

I dislike hp quints on ranged carries

on MF /ashe
flash ghost 9/0/21 or 0/9/21 allows as much lane presence as 21/x/x if not more so , as you can harass with spells harder

on ezreal
i run 21/0/9 ignite/ghost because of his 4-6 sec cd on e at rank 5, and the range of his q poke + ult makes hi mvery hard to target, so maximizing damage is ideal

If you want any specific 1v1 mid strategy i prefer if u msg me in game for a match (practice game 1v1 mid)
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
November 08 2010 19:29 GMT
#13
On November 09 2010 04:12 HeavOnEarth wrote:
armor pen quint/red mp5 ylw/blue on all and ill use tihs 90% of the time
i also like my full armor ( flat mres blues) page on ranged carries (still experimenting )

flat ad quints / armor pen reds on ezreal is also pretty good, i use it time to time

I dislike hp quints on ranged carries

on MF /ashe
flash ghost 9/0/21 or 0/9/21 allows as much lane presence as 21/x/x if not more so , as you can harass with spells harder

on ezreal
i run 21/0/9 ignite/ghost because of his 4-6 sec cd on e at rank 5, and the range of his q poke + ult makes hi mvery hard to target, so maximizing damage is ideal

If you want any specific 1v1 mid strategy i prefer if u msg me in game for a match (practice game 1v1 mid)


I think Ezreal is the hardest to spec for me... I don't need deep utility so much on him(summoner cd not as important), but meditation is huge on him, and buff duration on lizard is always nice. I wonder how something like 17/0/13 would work out(crit damage is completely meh on him, so you're trading 5% base for mp5+buff duration).

But basically beyond that you're pretty much the person I've ended up copying a lot of my carry play from so I can't say I disagree on anything else.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 19:49:23
November 08 2010 19:40 GMT
#14
17/0/13 sounds good ill try it
maybe trade out ylw or blue mp5 runes if u dont need the mp5

An important question to ask yourself throughout the course of every game is:

1) Is there anything that can kill me

2) How do i avoid this

If theres absolutely nothing that can cc you ( or gank you during laning)
( keep in note flash range(if they have) and ability range on all champs , The occasional teleport ganks , keep that in mind as well, and of course any globals / and the occasional revive panth, etc etc. and shaco/twitch/eve)

Then go about harassing with all your spells and auto-attacking w/ lizard , doing maximum dps.


"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
November 08 2010 19:50 GMT
#15
On November 09 2010 04:09 red_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2010 03:57 spinesheath wrote:
Imo many ranged DPS don't really need any MP5 runes if they don't spam mindlessly and have Meditation maxed. Even without any points in Meditation or runes I do fine with champs like Trist and Twitch, even IE Ashe (Volley isn't that awesome if you build around IE).

So usually that frees up the seals and glyphs for defense (Armor/MRes), or offense (crit chance is awesome if you get IE).


An Ashe that isn't spamming Volley(in a way that is hitting the other player) is going to get wrecked in lane because that's her only advantage. Also in team fights there is no reason not to spam it on cooldown, and you can run oom quick riding someone with frost arrows. Ashe might actually be 2nd on the list of mana hogging ranged carries behind Corki... but he gets manamune.


With IE and decent crit chance, autoattacks deal more damage to a single target than Volleys. And they apply red buff which you should be hogging as IE Ashe.
In lane you can do fine with just Meditation. Volley starts at 20 seconds cooldown, after all.

At least that's my impression from the 10 or so times I played IE Ashe in the last weeks. I normally play GB/B Ashe and I'm obviously spamming Volley like it was my autoattck with that build. Ideally you would have MP5 seals + glyphs for that, but the CDR glyphs are more important there.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
November 08 2010 19:56 GMT
#16
there really shouldn't ever be a reason to get into autoattack range with ashe in teamfights(that haven't been initiated yet)

You sit back and spam volley, and when they come u kite with arrow and frost shot

cdr glyphs are better early but later on in the game you need the mp5/lvl on blues
they help you farm faster, do more poking, and when someone finally does commit you still have mana to volley spam while autoattacking.

im sure u use volley to kill creep waves or wolves or wraiths or minigolems or help you out with buffs
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
November 08 2010 20:08 GMT
#17
There's almost 0 reason to not be volleying on cooldown, even after you have IE+LW. The amount of time a volley sets back your auto attack is extremely small(in fact it's 0 until you break like 1.5aspd). Volley applies your frost from further than you can, it applies it to more targets faster than autoattacking can, and it does more overall damage than even a crit if you hit 3+ targets(more damage than any autoattack that isn't a crit in general as well, even to 1 target). Meditation alone just isn't going to cut it, even at lvl 1 volley you are outpacing your mediation regen by 40 per cooldown, and you are going to need some for frost arrow kiting and your ult.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
November 08 2010 20:30 GMT
#18
Well whatever. When I want to spam Volley, I go GB/B. Especially if I plan on poking for a while.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
heat511
Profile Joined November 2010
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 21:00:23
November 08 2010 20:43 GMT
#19
Volley is neat (edited cause I'm an idiot) Also it has more range than autoattacks, you don't need vision, you might be exhausted/blinded, etc. There are definitely times to spam it.

I run armor pen quints/reds, yellow mp5/lvl, flat CDR blues for ashe
armor pen quints/reds, flat dodge yellows, blue mp5/lvl for MF
armor pen quints/reds, mp5/lvl yellows/blues for Ez if I feel like spamming like mad

I don't find flat HP to be necessary if you are positioning properly.

I don't fill out offense all the way (5% base damage is worthless) and I don't fill out utility all the way even though I really like the end talent because I want 31 armor pen so I go half and half grabbing down to improved movespeed and flash in utility and armor pen in offense. I normally toss my 2 extra points to give me improved damage to minions. It may be all mental (4 damage really isn't that much in the scheme of things) but I feel like I last hit better with it. It is a crutch that I use right now and will eventually grab something else. Although one thing to note, is the bounce damage on MF's double up is improved by it

I always go fast IE/LW (unless their tank has less than 90 armor (saw it yesterday???) then I grab starks first). After the first 2 items I grab either banshees or qss (sometimes both) then from there it really depends on comp. Typically I start stacking thirsters tough.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 08 2010 20:44 GMT
#20
you don't lifesteal off of volley....
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
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