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Nuclear Launch Detected... =o - Page 24

Forum Index > General Forum
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Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
November 03 2008 06:59 GMT
#461
You know reading through this thread makes me think that this question should be the test for US citizenship. If your answer to "was it justified?" is "well, it's hard to be sure" or "I think it saved lives in the long run" or "consider the context at the time..." then you're an American citizen. if you're answer is "OF COURSE NOT IT WAS BARBARIC" then you're a filthy foreigner.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
November 03 2008 07:02 GMT
#462
I don't think its necessary to classify these things Luddite, doesn't enhance any argument.
inkblot
Profile Joined December 2004
United States1250 Posts
November 03 2008 07:02 GMT
#463
I don't take the distinction between civilian and soldier to be as big as some apparently do. Unless the civilians are ignorant and/or unsupportive (held captive more or less) of their military's actions, they are very much the enemy. If you value the lives of your enemy's civilians more than the lives of your own soldiers, who's side are you on? Of course, minimizing the killing is important, but it's a secondary goal.

If I were in a hypothetical situation where I had the options a) kill an attacker in self defense (he will kill me otherwise) and b) I can let him cut off my arm but he will be incapacitated and imprisoned, which option should I take? I like the first one alot more.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
November 03 2008 07:11 GMT
#464
On November 03 2008 16:02 inkblot wrote:
I don't take the distinction between civilian and soldier to be as big as some apparently do. Unless the civilians are ignorant and/or unsupportive (held captive more or less) of their military's actions, they are very much the enemy. If you value the lives of your enemy's civilians more than the lives of your own soldiers, who's side are you on? Of course, minimizing the killing is important, but it's a secondary goal.



I agree. It's hard to tell the side holding the I.W.I.N. button that it's better if 190,000 of their soldiers die instead of 200,000 civilians because hey, 190,000 < 200,000. As someone said before, if you had the choice of killing a family member, or killing two strangers, which are you gonna choose?
Choros
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia530 Posts
November 03 2008 07:12 GMT
#465
This travesty happened because Truman became president. Possibly the greatest tragedy of the 21st century. He did not know about the atomic bomb, it was top secret. When he became president right near wars end he was informed about it, he asked his advisers if he should use it. The scientists said no don't do it. The military men said if you do this how can we ever be forgiven, for god sake don't do it. So he did it anyway, he liked the idea of his new secret super weapon and he was determined to beat down the dirty commies to boot. He then went on to start the cold war, all the Russians wanted was to go home and rebuild their devastated country but Truman had other ideas.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
November 03 2008 07:13 GMT
#466
I think there's too much speculation and not enough cold hard facts.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 03 2008 07:19 GMT
#467
russell succumbing to anticommunist hysteria is interesting, especially given his political pedigree
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
banged
Profile Joined October 2008
United States46 Posts
November 03 2008 07:20 GMT
#468
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?
fig_newbie
Profile Joined March 2006
749 Posts
November 03 2008 07:25 GMT
#469
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?

shut the fuck up if you have nothing to contribute. people have put forth compelling arguments on both sides and you come in with these weak insults?
k?
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
November 03 2008 07:39 GMT
#470
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?


So many have died for so much less, i agree it was horrible, i agree it was unforgivable, but dont you honestly believe it might have saved many lives, japanese AND americans on the long run?

I dont really see it as a "kill 2 cities button push" i see it as "end a horrible war button push"

And i believe they really screwed up on regard that they bombed cities, they should have bombed less populated places, the moral effect would be just as devastating.

Alert or not alert it was horrible, but on believing an open field war that everyone was fucking tired off was the other option, i dont hold a grudge.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
banged
Profile Joined October 2008
United States46 Posts
November 03 2008 07:40 GMT
#471
On November 03 2008 16:25 fig_newbie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?

shut the fuck up if you have nothing to contribute. people have put forth compelling arguments on both sides and you come in with these weak insults?


lol redneck why are you mad at me? What was the arguments that you talking about? The pseudo-historical references people made in order to justify dropping A-bombs on civilians? You ever heard about the war crimes? The ones that were listed here are lesser crimes that this one, does your brain comprehend that? Or you're "retarded"? Do u realize that anything can be justified, even blowing up twin towers and destroying whole fucking country for your purpose? When they dropped the A-bombs they didn't know if Japan would instantly surrender. They tested a new fucking weapon on a city full of civilians. Do you realize why things like cassette and cluster bombs getting banned internationally? Did u ever see what napalm does do people? This shit happened just 1 lifespan ago. You are not redneck for fucking your cousin while watching Nascar, i honestly dont blame u for that - u take after your father. You are a redneck inside your head, poor braindead moron who stopped developing after 7th grade. This coming from history major, not your kitchen table.
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 07:49:23
November 03 2008 07:48 GMT
#472
Banged, honestly, you are retarded.

and its not your opinions, its how you express them.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
November 03 2008 08:34 GMT
#473
Radi-FUCKING-ation.



But the moment right before the explosion must have been magical. The split second of silence before the utter devastating destruction hits your face. The moment were they just knew it's all going to end right here right now and no power in the universe could safe them. Imagine how you look at it and you immediatly feel it in your stomach that in a milisecond everything is going to end for you. You won't be able to hug your wife and kids or finish your work, or even smile let alone look at next person around you. You cant even wink, your whole body is clenched because it knows even before you know it, this is it. Everything you build up with your own hands, everything that belonged to you, everything you loved and hated and then eventually learned to love anyway is going to vanish with you into blackness. No why's no how's, no questions no answers, it's just going to happen and while time slows down only to speed up for the last time in your life you gaze at the beauty of this spectacular moment.

And then it ends.

At least for some of them.
Most of them (and/or their kids) die a slow and painfull death from burns, radiation or random diseases that pop up later that make them vomit their own blood because the cancer in their body is about to rip their body apart while keeping it alive long enough to give it excruciating pain. And even if you somehow managed to dodge all of that there still exploded a fucking nuke in your fucking neighbourhood that fucking destroyed fucking everything.
fig_newbie
Profile Joined March 2006
749 Posts
November 03 2008 08:37 GMT
#474
On November 03 2008 16:40 banged wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2008 16:25 fig_newbie wrote:
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?

shut the fuck up if you have nothing to contribute. people have put forth compelling arguments on both sides and you come in with these weak insults?


lol redneck why are you mad at me? What was the arguments that you talking about? The pseudo-historical references people made in order to justify dropping A-bombs on civilians? You ever heard about the war crimes? The ones that were listed here are lesser crimes that this one, does your brain comprehend that? Or you're "retarded"? Do u realize that anything can be justified, even blowing up twin towers and destroying whole fucking country for your purpose? When they dropped the A-bombs they didn't know if Japan would instantly surrender. They tested a new fucking weapon on a city full of civilians. Do you realize why things like cassette and cluster bombs getting banned internationally? Did u ever see what napalm does do people? This shit happened just 1 lifespan ago. You are not redneck for fucking your cousin while watching Nascar, i honestly dont blame u for that - u take after your father. You are a redneck inside your head, poor braindead moron who stopped developing after 7th grade. This coming from history major, not your kitchen table.


LOL @ history major
k?
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
November 03 2008 08:40 GMT
#475
How much did the government know about the damage that could be done by the bombing and the radiation?
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 09:09:30
November 03 2008 09:09 GMT
#476
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
you are not redneck for fucking your cousin while watching Nascar, i honestly dont blame u for that - u take after your father. You are a redneck inside your head, poor braindead moron who stopped developing after 7th grade.

And you're calling for other people to be banned?
But why?
kdog3683
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States916 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 09:10:54
November 03 2008 09:09 GMT
#477
On November 03 2008 17:37 fig_newbie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2008 16:40 banged wrote:
On November 03 2008 16:25 fig_newbie wrote:
On November 03 2008 16:20 banged wrote:
hahaha everyone who voted yes should be banned for atleast 2-3 weeks
this is amusing - do rednecks really visit TL?

shut the fuck up if you have nothing to contribute. people have put forth compelling arguments on both sides and you come in with these weak insults?


lol redneck why are you mad at me? What was the arguments that you talking about? The pseudo-historical references people made in order to justify dropping A-bombs on civilians? You ever heard about the war crimes? The ones that were listed here are lesser crimes that this one, does your brain comprehend that? Or you're "retarded"? Do u realize that anything can be justified, even blowing up twin towers and destroying whole fucking country for your purpose? When they dropped the A-bombs they didn't know if Japan would instantly surrender. They tested a new fucking weapon on a city full of civilians. Do you realize why things like cassette and cluster bombs getting banned internationally? Did u ever see what napalm does do people? This shit happened just 1 lifespan ago. You are not redneck for fucking your cousin while watching Nascar, i honestly dont blame u for that - u take after your father. You are a redneck inside your head, poor braindead moron who stopped developing after 7th grade. This coming from history major, not your kitchen table.


LOL @ history major


Thing is he's actually a History Major @ who graduated with top honors. His writing is a bit childish because he's Russian Immigrant who moved here only 2 years ago. In his native tongue, he would have destroyed the poster in a much more efficient manner; not that the poster wasn't horribly dismantled.
Multiply your efforts.
fig_newbie
Profile Joined March 2006
749 Posts
November 03 2008 09:16 GMT
#478
On November 03 2008 17:34 Jayson X wrote:
Radi-FUCKING-ation.



But the moment right before the explosion must have been magical. The split second of silence before the utter devastating destruction hits your face. The moment were they just knew it's all going to end right here right now and no power in the universe could safe them. Imagine how you look at it and you immediatly feel it in your stomach that in a milisecond everything is going to end for you. You won't be able to hug your wife and kids or finish your work, or even smile let alone look at next person around you. You cant even wink, your whole body is clenched because it knows even before you know it, this is it. Everything you build up with your own hands, everything that belonged to you, everything you loved and hated and then eventually learned to love anyway is going to vanish with you into blackness. No why's no how's, no questions no answers, it's just going to happen and while time slows down only to speed up for the last time in your life you gaze at the beauty of this spectacular moment.

And then it ends.

At least for some of them.
Most of them (and/or their kids) die a slow and painfull death from burns, radiation or random diseases that pop up later that make them vomit their own blood because the cancer in their body is about to rip their body apart while keeping it alive long enough to give it excruciating pain. And even if you somehow managed to dodge all of that there still exploded a fucking nuke in your fucking neighbourhood that fucking destroyed fucking everything.


A sharp, twisting pain explodes in your stomach as you see, too late, the Japanese soldier hiding in the car. In the middle of the overwhelming chaos, you were careless. Goddamnit, you think, then, involuntarily, your knees buckle under you. You lean against a smoldering heap that was once a fish market, now a gutted and firebombed ruin.

There are bodies everywhere. Blood is flowing around you, under you, and the air is tinged with a fine pink mist. It smells like a peculiar blend of dust, smoke and gore. You look down at your belly and see curious bits of pink and white protruding from a pool of dark crimson. You panic; the pain erupts like a white hot knife from your your stomach to your arms, to your chest, teeth, eyes. It hurts so bad.

Your comrades scramble around you and gun down the nip that took you out. Oh God,you hear them say, your ears aching from the booming of mortars, bombs, screams and cries around you. Hes a goner, you hear someone mutter. Then it hits you - you will die today, in a foreign country, far from your family, far from your home. You never even laid that pretty young recruiter who promised you a date when you got back from this, this final push into the heart of an enemy nation that stubbornly refused to give up. The pain starts to give way to a cold numbness.

No why's no how's, no questions no answers, it's just going to happen and while time slows down only to speed up for the last time in your life you gaze at the smoky horizon, at this perverted agony of hell come to wretched life. You try not to hate the Japanese in your last moments - God wouldn't like that, you think. Its hard.

And then it ends.
k?
ShcShc
Profile Joined October 2006
Canada912 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 09:26:18
November 03 2008 09:25 GMT
#479
When they dropped the A-bombs they didn't know if Japan would instantly surrender. They tested a new fucking weapon on a city full of civilians.


This is FALSE.
There was a report where it recommended Truman to use exactly TWO Atomic Bombs to bring the surrender of the Japanese Imperial ARMY (keyword: ARMY).

And dropping two turned out to be the right choice.
If you are indeed a history major, you would know which report this came from.
God DAJNFBGHSfIDSHUKLFHSGUIO! -Jinro
bahaa
Profile Joined November 2008
Lebanon29 Posts
November 03 2008 10:30 GMT
#480
I think it isn't justified. Let's face it. Whether your religion tells you or not, it's evil to target civilians even during a war. Some are defending the decision to drop the bomb as a good means to end the war and save time+casualties, but it's totally wrong. This is like saying it's OK to kill a criminal's baby to bring him down to his knees and have him surrender. Since when is killing innocent people a good alternative for ending a war? Since forever. Sadly war is nasty but once can always abide by proper rules of conduct.

Remember the ships scenario the Joker orchestrated in The Dark Knight? Basically he wired two ships with explosives and he gave the ability of both crews to detonate each others, otherwise after a certain time, both ships will detonate. On one ship there are ordinary civilians and on the other there are prisoners. Let's say the U.S. was "good", and Japan was "evil", The U.S. is the civilians’ ship and Japan is the prisoner's ship. What happened in that movie? Well most people from both ships wanted the other ship detonated. This is exactly the same kind of scenario as 1945 when the U.S. decided to drop those bombs. Now what was the right decision? No detonation! That's what happened in the movie, but regardless. If both decided not to detonate each other's ships, then both ships will be auto-detonated. MORE CASUALTIES, no evil from both sides, HUMANITY WINS. If the U.S. decided to play it clean, there would have been more casualties, but at least it would have been human and remained an act of self-defense in response to Pearl Harbor.

I hope that made my point more clear.
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