EPT9-11 - Page 23
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ObsoleteLogic
United States3676 Posts
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
but.. condoleeza oil tanker "I'm proud of my association with Chevron. By the way, Chevron names oil tankers after its directors. There's also a George Shultz and a David Packard. So, I'm very proud of my association with Chevron, and I think we should be very proud of the job that American oil companies are doing in exploration abroad, in exploration at home, and in making certain that we have a safe energy supply."- condoleezza rice edit: condoleezza biography link is correct now. | ||
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iGgs
Russian Federation772 Posts
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ObsoleteLogic
United States3676 Posts
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
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ReQiuM
8 Posts
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
On September 07 2003 03:34 ReQiuM wrote: um, maybe someone already asked this, but if Bush and others did plan/help out 9-11, why would they want the planes directed at the twin towers and the pentagon? why not pick different buildings that have less importance? i dunno, just makes more sense to destroy things not as important as these 3 buildings.. i dont think the bush administration planned the attacks. i dont think anyone else has suggested it either(considering im kinda in my own boat on this issue). what i think is more reasonable, is that they knew they were coming, and at the least consciously neglected to stop it, becuase they knew it could be used to carry out there agenda of having military control in the middle east, and also to wreak in large sums of profit from the military/resource industry(not to mention control of the drug trade). as to the idea that they would minimize the damage, there is a large amount of evidence that would show that it was minimized. also think, that the attacks were by no means a maximim amount of damage. for example, the planes could have just as easily hit a nucleaur plant, in which would cuase much greater damage and loss to life. here are the states that have plants: ![[image loading]](http://www.nei.org/images/statebystate.gif) most of which were within a reasonable range to hit in the same amount of time in which the WTC and hte pentagon were hit | ||
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Iron[NM]
United States57 Posts
I don't care about Blackhack, he attempted to act cool to quote me with some sort of stupid point about him being above me when he's just some 80 apm hacker who tries to act good at Brood War. All I did was say the United States citizens elected President Bush into office to protect and serve the United States of America. At Pearl Harbor, all we knew that the Japanese were going to attack somewhere. And attacking Pearl Harbor was considered the last option until it was too late. Before 9/11, we knew of a possiblity that a terrorist group was going to conduct something outside of the continental United States. Saying President Bush would want to accelerate the already sluggish American economy into a huge downturn, and allow thousands of innocent Americans to be killed is laughable. What is the point of sending the message that it is Ok to drive a commercial airliner of American made airplanes, with US citizens on them, into the military headquarters of the greatest and most prosperous nation on Earth? | ||
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Veg
Canada2945 Posts
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
On September 07 2003 06:17 Veg wrote: i also didnt read half the shit written here but if there was a conspiracy going around, there would be a handful of people who would know about it and one person at a given time would have said something theres no way there were bombs planted the heat created by the fuel is over 2500 C i read that it takes 1500 C to weaken steal if the steal supporting the floors where the plane crashed into slowly gave it, the weigh would start pushing down and would just create a domino effect also, the thing about ppl saying it was a conspiracy how all the jews didnt show up to work that day doesnt make any sense whatsoever =/ ppl would talk..... ppl would say "we were warned not to go to work on 9/11" or something so u can rule that out too people are talking, u just dont see it on cnn, and apparently everything else is just bogus conspiracy theory... | ||
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
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WiLLiE
China82 Posts
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mensrea
Canada5062 Posts
On September 07 2003 07:14 TeCh)PsylO wrote: bush is giving a speach on sunday. i will guess that he will convienetly ignore the WMD issue in which he once pounded into every speach. he will stress the so called liberation of the iraq people. even though he will avoid the WMD, he will still attempt to make a claim that iraq was a victory in the war on terror. most importantly, watch out for another "imminent threat", something along the lines of iran having nucleur capabilities. this will conveinetly distract people from the WMD issue, set up a pretext for another war(after all, he is at a rate of 1 per year, he needs to get that 3rd one in pretty soon). as the main stream media jumps on whatever bush decides to be is the most serious threat to are security, they will of course be "to busy" in there comercial packed programing to talk about the real issues, that would and should slap bush across the face with impeachment. only time will tell.... It's sad how easily so many people can be manipulated. Despite all our technological advancements and improvement in the access to information, I doubt the general level of our species has really evolved much (if at all) since the beginning of recorded civilization. I guess this is the wisdom underlying the aphorism "the more things change, the more they stay the same." | ||
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
but, i would like to enter another point to the overall debate, stemming from a similiar idea, some of which i have already discussed. it seems that there was a fairly minimal amount of damage done on 9-11(i say that respectfully of course). i have already mentioned that at the time there were severe overbooking and overscheduling problems in the airline industry. overbooking comsumers union recommendation for airline reform overscheduling this was a time when airlines were cramming in as many people as possible onto planes, with not enough capacity to even run a proper schedule. the problem was so bad, they had congressional hearings: congressional hearings a 767 hit the north tower-flight AA 11 767 specs maximum capacity:290 min:211 9-11 passengers: 92 total a 767 hit the north tower-flight UA 175 9-11 passengers: 65 a 757 hit the pentagon-flight AA 77 boeing 757 specs maximum capacity: 200-228 9-11 capacity: 64 a 757 crashed in pennsylvania-flight UA 93 9-11 capacity: 45 in a time when airlines were jammed packed, probably the only flights in the country that were significantly underbooked just happened to be the ones used in the attacks. the pentagons sides, are named wedges; wedge 1, wedge 2, etc.. during 9-11, the pentagon was under construction in wedge 1, which obviously left it relatively empty: "The plane that crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, hit a section that had recently been renovated and was still only partially occupied. Authorities say the death toll of 189 would have likely been much higher if the area had been fully occupied. " wedge 1 construction the amount of deaths from the WTC collapse, is also remarkably small(thankfully). if the attacks took place a couple hours later, there would have been much more people in the WTC, obviously causing much more of a human toll. as the WTC report shows, after the first WTC bombing, that the fire and evacuation designs were enhanced, along with tenant training in evacuation. i have already pointed out, that there could have been a much greater amount of damage done(map of states with nucleur plants). so 9-11 obviously was not a maximum amount of damage. and it seems that it did an unusually small amount of damage considering what it could have been. edit: i should point out that in making my case for a controlled collapse, it was never my intention to say that this was done to cuase harm, but rather to limit the damage in the surrounding areas. once i relized that this was probably a misconception, thought i would expand the thought of damange control | ||
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Iron[NM]
United States57 Posts
Psylo, you do not think rationally. If an airplane first of all went near a Nuclear Power Plant pre or post 9-11, it would simply be shot down. Second of all, if a plane somehow hit one and a huge disaster occurred, I don't think there would be much of anything that terrorists or there supporters constructed in the Mid East would be left. That would piss off the US beyond belief. Stop thinking Bush or the US gov't had something to do with it. Because of the attacks, many people don't even fly anymore. My dad's friends are out of work (United Airlines cut tens of thousands of employees -- located near Chicago), and already accelerated an economic downturn in the US due to inflated tech stocks. It's called good planning. The terrorists mapped everything out to the T and executed it perfectly. A shame a terrorist even got into the country in the first place -- however, just because the flights were underbrooked proves how cunning and how rational they were on that fateful day. Let me level with you here: What are you thinking? Because the planes were underbooked it was because of the US gov't? Because of the US gov't, millions lost jobs, a symbol of Western capitalism was lost, and thousands were murdered? THE UNITED STATES GOV'T ALLOWED ITS MILITARY HEADQUARTERS TO BE ATTACKED, AND LAUNCHED OR SIMPLY LET THAT ATTACK TAKE PLACE? The point of these attacks was to not drive a plane into a Nuclear facility and kill millions of people. The point was to send a message that America is not invincible, and unless we get out of Israel, more such things will take place. This is why, terrorism threatens are existance and way of life. I know I don't want a Nuclear Bomb going off in the middle of Manhattan on a Summer day. Do you? It's Ok to be skeptical of the government, but I think I speak for practically everyone in this thread that you are thinking a little too hard. You can try to shove a quote down my throat about not everything is what it seems -- the fact is the terrorists were trained well, trained inside the US to learn how to fly commercial aircraft, and murdered thousands of innocent Americans just trying to earn there living to go home to there families and dwellings. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 07 2003 09:56 Iron[NM] wrote: Well, let's see. Think for a second. The terrorists rode these planes months and months before these terrorist attacks happened. They studied many plane routes, to see which ones were jampacked, undercrowded, and what is the least crowded plane they could hijack that is the biggest plane -- with the longest destination from its takeoff. Psylo, you do not think rationally. If an airplane first of all went near a Nuclear Power Plant pre or post 9-11, it would simply be shot down. Second of all, if a plane somehow hit one and a huge disaster occurred, I don't think there would be much of anything that terrorists or there supporters constructed in the Mid East would be left. That would piss off the US beyond belief. Stop thinking Bush or the US gov't had something to do with it. Because of the attacks, many people don't even fly anymore. My dad's friends are out of work (United Airlines cut tens of thousands of employees -- located near Chicago), and already accelerated an economic downturn in the US due to inflated tech stocks. It's called good planning. The terrorists mapped everything out to the T and executed it perfectly. A shame a terrorist even got into the country in the first place -- however, just because the flights were underbrooked proves how cunning and how rational they were on that fateful day. Let me level with you here: What are you thinking? Because the planes were underbooked it was because of the US gov't? Because of the US gov't, millions lost jobs, a symbol of Western capitalism was lost, and thousands were murdered? THE UNITED STATES GOV'T ALLOWED ITS MILITARY HEADQUARTERS TO BE ATTACKED, AND LAUNCHED OR SIMPLY LET THAT ATTACK TAKE PLACE? The point of these attacks was to not drive a plane into a Nuclear facility and kill millions of people. The point was to send a message that America is not invincible, and unless we get out of Israel, more such things will take place. This is why, terrorism threatens are existance and way of life. I know I don't want a Nuclear Bomb going off in the middle of Manhattan on a Summer day. Do you? It's Ok to be skeptical of the government, but I think I speak for practically everyone in this thread that you are thinking a little too hard. You can try to shove a quote down my throat about not everything is what it seems -- the fact is the terrorists were trained well, trained inside the US to learn how to fly commercial aircraft, and murdered thousands of innocent Americans just trying to earn there living to go home to there families and dwellings. ur a no-named loser and a complete fool. Stfu and stop posting here before you further humiliate yourself. | ||
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Veg
Canada2945 Posts
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
On September 07 2003 15:50 Veg wrote: what he said is the most logical part of 9/11 and aside from the fact BUSH and USA GOV does lie to their people on a daily basis, this was not the case on 9/11 Stakes are too high to even think a controlled bombing took place on that day. i have conceded in the controlled collapse debate, but i think the rest of the logic is sound. iron, the idea that the terrorist were sooo well trained, does not hold up to the facts. for one, the hijackrs were apparently sophisticated enough to pull of such hiest, but they left a trail of evidence so deep a fourth grader could pick up on it. your average tv watching american is smarter than this. the idea that the hijackers were extreme radical muslims, plunging to there death for allah, also doesnt really add up. they were middle classed and educated. they by no means lived a muslim life style, take part in strip clubs etc.. there was even a tape shown on cnn that showed one of the hi-jackers giving a speach to kids in school, talking abuot how great america was and how education is important. the hijackers had very little flight training. they attended a small number of classes in flight school, and were reported to not being very good students. one hijacker, was even denied back into a shool, becuase he was such a poor student. these planes started out in differant places, going in completely seperate directions, but yet these unskilled pilots managed to hit the WTC within a small time frame, and with such accuracy.. | ||
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
this just in: "The United States cannot meet an international deadline next April for destroying at least 45 percent of its chemical arms stockpile and is seeking an extension, to 2007, for reaching that milestone, the Pentagon said." -wash. post better call the worlds super power to put us in check! o wait, we are the worls super power! **beep beeo**beep beep** this just in( a while ago): bush scraps nuclear watch dog just remember, tonight when bush makes a claim that iran has atomic capabilites, and calls for the UN to act, remember how deep the hypocracy is.. i shall illustrate something: ![[image loading]](http://www.underreported.com/images/storyphotos/2003/05/Empire2003Ver2.gif) the countries in red is where we have military control(troops on ground). what is left? iran and syria. the to countries we have threatened to attack. take note, iran cuases a large regional gap in control. think of such things when bush begins to prep a war.... | ||
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