On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Actually, BlackJack's claim about "racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi" is only relevant with regards to Trump (and not Elon Musk), as per conversations in the US Politics thread (which is not this thread), so BJ was the one to bring up that topic/guy in here.
Regardless, we should try to keep the Elon Musk thread about Elon Musk. As far as I know, Elon Musk isn't a fascist.
Right because it's obviously impossible for anyone else to be any of those things, or for Magic Powers to have specifically called Musk that in the original post.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Actually, BlackJack's claim about "racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi" is only relevant with regards to Trump (and not Elon Musk), as per conversations in the US Politics thread (which is not this thread), so BJ was the one to bring up that topic/guy in here.
Regardless, we should try to keep the Elon Musk thread about Elon Musk. As far as I know, Elon Musk isn't a fascist.
Right because it's obviously impossible for anyone else to be any of those things, or for Magic Powers to have specifically called Musk that in the original post.
Except he didn't. MP wrote "Musk has made a name for himself supporting fascists such as Trump" over a month ago, which is not calling Musk a fascist. If you think Musk is a fascist, then feel free to explain why. I don't really have much knowledge of the matter, so I'd be interested in hearing you out.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Actually, BlackJack's claim about "racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi" is only relevant with regards to Trump (and not Elon Musk), as per conversations in the US Politics thread (which is not this thread), so BJ was the one to bring up that topic/guy in here.
Regardless, we should try to keep the Elon Musk thread about Elon Musk. As far as I know, Elon Musk isn't a fascist.
Right because it's obviously impossible for anyone else to be any of those things, or for Magic Powers to have specifically called Musk that in the original post.
Except he didn't. MP wrote "Musk has made a name for himself supporting fascists such as Trump" over a month ago, which is not calling Musk a fascist. If you think Musk is a fascist, then feel free to explain why. I don't really have much knowledge of the matter, so I'd be interested in hearing you out.
There are 25 pages in which he has directly called him fascist multiple times, as well as supporting, which are not independent and can easily be true at the same time. I do not think he is one. You would know this also from probably any one of the pages where I appear.
But even worse, "support fascism" and "be fascist" may be strongly delineated statements in the nuanced and exacting framework of truth values that you work in, but they are not in the framework that Magic Powers works in, where seeing a job title called "Climate Diversification" conclusively proves Elon Musk must have conclusively thought that meant "DEI." In this case I am not going to use your standards of deduction to have a conversation with someone else who doesn't respect, use, or probably even understand them.
Another example of the reality-divorced level of monologue, in addition to thinking they made 4k cars a week, just so this post isn't a total waste, is this:
On November 20 2024 03:28 Magic Powers wrote: Besides gaming 2000 hours a week, Elon Musk favorite pastime is spreading dangerous right-wing misinformation on Twitter. This is a good breakdown of the UK protests and how Elon had a hand in spreading hatred, fear and propaganda.
Timestamped 30m 56s
It's also a good example of how right-wingers incite violence and then play victim when they face serious backlash for their actions.
In the first 20 seconds of watching from the timecode
"whilst constantly tweeting that Britain is now in civil war" (under: X post of Musk saying "Civil war is inevitable") "having to delete one of his tweets where he believed the UK had made 'detainment camps' on the Falklands Islands" (side: photo of Musk retweeting a faked pic with the headline "Keir Starmer considering building 'emergency detainment camps'")
Two blatant examples of pure sophistry. There is no search for truth there, it's just a no-holds-barred rhetorical gymnastic effort to reach a foregone conclusion.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Actually, BlackJack's claim about "racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi" is only relevant with regards to Trump (and not Elon Musk), as per conversations in the US Politics thread (which is not this thread), so BJ was the one to bring up that topic/guy in here.
Regardless, we should try to keep the Elon Musk thread about Elon Musk. As far as I know, Elon Musk isn't a fascist.
Right because it's obviously impossible for anyone else to be any of those things, or for Magic Powers to have specifically called Musk that in the original post.
Except he didn't. MP wrote "Musk has made a name for himself supporting fascists such as Trump" over a month ago, which is not calling Musk a fascist. If you think Musk is a fascist, then feel free to explain why. I don't really have much knowledge of the matter, so I'd be interested in hearing you out.
There are 25 pages in which he has directly called him fascist multiple times, as well as supporting, which are not independent and can easily be true at the same time. I do not think he is one. You would know this also from probably any one of the pages where I appear.
But even worse, "support fascism" and "be fascist" may be strongly delineated statements in the nuanced and exacting framework of truth values that you work in, but they are not in the framework that Magic Powers works in, where seeing a job title called "Climate Diversification" conclusively proves Elon Musk must have conclusively thought that meant "DEI." In this case I am not going to use your standards of deduction to have a conversation with someone else who doesn't respect, use, or probably even understand them.
Another example of the reality-divorced level of monologue, in addition to thinking they made 4k cars a week, just so this post isn't a total waste, is this:
On November 20 2024 03:28 Magic Powers wrote: Besides gaming 2000 hours a week, Elon Musk favorite pastime is spreading dangerous right-wing misinformation on Twitter. This is a good breakdown of the UK protests and how Elon had a hand in spreading hatred, fear and propaganda.
It's also a good example of how right-wingers incite violence and then play victim when they face serious backlash for their actions.
In the first 20 seconds of watching from the timecode
"whilst constantly tweeting that Britain is now in civil war" (under: X post of Musk saying "Civil war is inevitable") "having to delete one of his tweets where he believed the UK had made 'detainment camps' on the Falklands Islands" (side: photo of Musk retweeting a faked pic with the headline "Keir Starmer considering building 'emergency detainment camps'")
Two blatant examples of pure sophistry. There is no search for truth there, it's just a no-holds-barred rhetorical gymnastic effort to reach a foregone conclusion.
You gave zero examples, but okay. If he did, then the burden of proof would be on him, and then you can assess if he's supported his claim or not. The one post you quoted doesn't even mention fascism, let alone "directly calling" Musk a fascist. I don't believe that interpreting (or misinterpreting) climate-related job titles or UK protests are necessarily relevant to fascism either. You're finally changing the subject, which I think is a good move.
I have said multiple, multiple times between here and USPol that what pissed a lot of people off in Britain was anti-Muslim (not racial incidentally, although there’s obvious overlap) sentiment exploding from a spreading of a false story that the perpetrator of a high profile murder was a Muslim. Which spread like wildfire, including on Twitter
And then Musk talking about a civil war right after in the manner he did, idiotic anyway but especially given his indirect role in said tension is what pissed people off. And quite fucking rightly
Musk could have said something like ‘We stand by our commitment to free speech but this brings challenges, challenges we are committed to tackling.’ Or basically anything other than what he did Tweet
Tweeting additionally stupid shit about the police response when Muslims (or indeed anyone brown because racists gonna racist), Muslim businesses being trashed including in my home city, yeah that pisses people off.
It’s piss-poor conduct, acknowledging that doesn’t necessitate jumping straight to thinking he’s done nothing positive. But people appear so dug in they are just incapable of doing that
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
On November 25 2024 23:28 WombaT wrote: I have said multiple, multiple times between here and USPol that what pissed a lot of people off in Britain was anti-Muslim (not racial incidentally, although there’s obvious overlap) sentiment exploding from a spreading of a false story that the perpetrator of a high profile murder was a Muslim. Which spread like wildfire, including on Twitter
And then Musk talking about a civil war right after in the manner he did, idiotic anyway but especially given his indirect role in said tension is what pissed people off. And quite fucking rightly
Musk could have said something like ‘We stand by our commitment to free speech but this brings challenges, challenges we are committed to tackling.’ Or basically anything other than what he did Tweet
Tweeting additionally stupid shit about the police response when Muslims (or indeed anyone brown because racists gonna racist), Muslim businesses being trashed including in my home city, yeah that pisses people off.
It’s piss-poor conduct, acknowledging that doesn’t necessitate jumping straight to thinking he’s done nothing positive. But people appear so dug in they are just incapable of doing that
Musk attacking the UK with pure misinformation and lies on Twitter just goes to show how truth is completely irrelevant to these people compared to their batshit crazy ideology.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote: How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Magic Powers’ English is rather better than my German. There are subtleties as to the meaning of support, one being purely functional, the other indicating active buy-in. Supporting my son functionally versus supporting my beloved Inter Milan, or Trap on his return from the military
If they wish to correct me, by all means, I suspect they mean Musk provides functional assistance to Fascists rather than actually supporting that ideology.
Could swap it out for ‘enabler’ or that he’s a useful idiot in that regard, which I think is the charge here. But hey, Magic is free to correct me if I’m off as I said
On November 26 2024 00:07 WombaT wrote: Magic Powers’ English is rather better than my German. There are subtleties as to the meaning of support, one being purely functional, the other indicating active buy-in.
If they wish to correct me, by all means, I suspect they mean Musk provides functional assistance to Fascists rather than actually supporting that ideology.
Could swap it out for ‘enabler’ or that he’s a useful idiot in that regard, which I think is the charge here. But hey, Magic is free to correct me if I’m off as I said
I don't think he's a useful idiot at all. Personally I'm not committed enough to even decide if Trump is fascist. He's just a right wing idiot.
But for the sake of argument if Trump WERE a fascist, I can't see how Musk is less of a direct supporter of fascism than someone who believes in fascist ideology wholeheartedly but doesn't offer people money to vote for the fascist.
Sometimes the functional takes precedent over the ideological.
I'm fairly certain I remember my boy Elon quote tweeting a few nazi conspiracy theories with "Interesting". But I don't really think that he cares about ideology if I'm entirely honest, the only thing that matters to him is being on top of the hierarchy and making more money. The best description is probably a cynical capitalist giving lip service to fascism for personal gain.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote: How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote: How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
On November 26 2024 00:07 WombaT wrote: Magic Powers’ English is rather better than my German. There are subtleties as to the meaning of support, one being purely functional, the other indicating active buy-in. Supporting my son functionally versus supporting my beloved Inter Milan, or Trap on his return from the military
If they wish to correct me, by all means, I suspect they mean Musk provides functional assistance to Fascists rather than actually supporting that ideology.
Could swap it out for ‘enabler’ or that he’s a useful idiot in that regard, which I think is the charge here. But hey, Magic is free to correct me if I’m off as I said
Previously I've referred to Elon as a supporter of fascism because his views and actions line up very well with it, while literally not a single thing would indicate that he opposes fascism. He perfectly qualifies as a supporter of fascism.
Trump himself is a fascist. This is strictly a fact because, despite not openly calling himself a fascist or stating his support for fascism, he has said, done and attempted to do many things that a fascist would, and none of the things an opponent of fascism would.
Elon Musk has never openly stated his support for fascism or called himself a fascist either. Additionally he's part of free enterprise, not government/parliament, unlike Trump who previously was and again will be president. This is how I distinguish these two, as Trump is the enforcer, while Elon musk is the supporter.
But I have recently considered calling Elon himself a fascist in the future because lately he's been more directly involved in government. Also his latest actions have lined up with fascism more than ever. So there's not much left that separates his center/far-right views and funding from straight up fascist action. He himself is about to be part of the fascist clique.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote: How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote: How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
2) See 1
3) No, it's not in the quote. You lack eyes.
I think it’s somewhat instructive that they continue to stick on this point rather than addressing the ‘this is stuff Elon Musk actually did and this is why people in the UK were pissed off’ point I made up the page, and have made multiple times with little actual response.
I mean we’ve seen this 1-2 punch for years with Trump now so it’s not surprising 1. ‘People who don’t like Trump think he’s literally Hitler’ 2. I’ll argue (correctly) that Trump isn’t literally Hitler so I can just perpetually dodge complete valid criticisms
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
2) See 1
3) No, it's not in the quote. You lack eyes.
I think it’s somewhat instructive that they continue to stick on this point rather than addressing the ‘this is stuff Elon Musk actually did and this is why people in the UK were pissed off’ point I made up the page, and have made multiple times with little actual response.
There's not really much you can do to address those particular criticisms of Musk. He posted awful lying shit to an uninformed mass audience about the politics of a country they know nothing about at an extremely sensitive time and he did it on purpose to sow as much unrest over here as possible.
I don't know how you address that other than to say "What a cunt."
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
2) See 1
3) No, it's not in the quote. You lack eyes.
I think it’s somewhat instructive that they continue to stick on this point rather than addressing the ‘this is stuff Elon Musk actually did and this is why people in the UK were pissed off’ point I made up the page, and have made multiple times with little actual response.
I mean we’ve seen this 1-2 punch for years with Trump now so it’s not surprising 1. ‘People who don’t like Trump think he’s literally Hitler’ 2. I’ll argue (correctly) that Trump isn’t literally Hitler so I can just perpetually dodge complete valid criticisms
Over the years while dealing with politics I've learned that people who are closer to the political fringes always use narrow/false framing when they consume any kind of media. What you're pointing out with the actual reasoning behind the UK protests is a common problem in politics nowadays, where people take things completely out of context and then act as if the issue is the exact opposite of reality. Some journalistic digging reveals that often the narrative has been flipped 180 by radical voices. It's so common now that I've come to expect it with everything, which is why I often don't comment on fresh news (such as the recent Amstercam hooligan violence) until I've done some rigorous digging myself. This is especially important since cameras are being used to lie to us. This was always a problem, but now everyone has cameras so everyone can spread a lie by using narrow/false framing.
On November 25 2024 17:41 BlackJack wrote: This place is an echo chamber but that doesn't mean they are extreme left. Sure, they demonize anyone that disagrees with them as a racist, misogynist, fascist, sexist, transphobic, xenophobic, white supremacist nazi. But that's not extreme left, that's mainstream left. Hell, they've been arguing that the leading EV car brand is shit and it's only propped up by bullshit government subsidies on green tech. That's basically a Republican talking point.
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote: [quote] Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
2) See 1
3) No, it's not in the quote. You lack eyes.
I think it’s somewhat instructive that they continue to stick on this point rather than addressing the ‘this is stuff Elon Musk actually did and this is why people in the UK were pissed off’ point I made up the page, and have made multiple times with little actual response.
I mean we’ve seen this 1-2 punch for years with Trump now so it’s not surprising 1. ‘People who don’t like Trump think he’s literally Hitler’ 2. I’ll argue (correctly) that Trump isn’t literally Hitler so I can just perpetually dodge complete valid criticisms
Over the years while dealing with politics I've learned that people who are closer to the political fringes always use narrow/false framing when they consume any kind of media. What you're pointing out with the actual reasoning behind the UK protests is a common problem in politics nowadays, where people take things completely out of context and then act as if the issue is the exact opposite of reality. Some journalistic digging reveals that often the narrative has been flipped 180 by radical voices. It's so common now that I've come to expect it with everything, which is why I often don't comment on fresh news (such as the recent Amstercam hooligan violence) until I've done some rigorous digging myself. This is especially important since cameras are being used to lie to us. This was always a problem, but now everyone has cameras so everyone can spread a lie by using narrow/false framing.
It’s fucking hard to counter as well.
I genuinely don’t know how I did it back in the day, I recall being in some group that was sharing a video about Muslims hunting down other Brits over here and rioting
Video was actually from disturbances in Israel/Palestine like 3 years prior
I mean I knew it was bullshit immediately but I can’t remember how I actually tracked down the original source.
On November 25 2024 22:12 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
There is no echo chamber here. Support for Trump is impossible from any reasonable, informed centrist. Literally impossible.
Nobody was talking about that person. You just showed your cards (or rather only card) for no reason.
Elon Musk is literally Trump's capitalist right hand. You can troll better than that.
Also, no. I never called Elon Musk a fascist. I have said he supports fascism, which is different in the sense that he's a useful idiot, not a fascist himself.
A supporter of fascism in English is called a "fascist" which you also directly called him, which is fine.
On November 11 2024 04:14 Magic Powers wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:33 oBlade wrote:
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
I still don't know what your point is. Do you not understand that Twitter users made money through Twitter prior to Elon Musk? Is that completely unbeknownst to you? Like, just admit it. You don't have to try every single attack angle against the person who hates a fascist.
Ah yes, the right-wing tactic of re-defining the words people use to make them mean something else. And no, I didn't call him a fascist.
1) That's how nouns have always worked. The fact that artists do art is not a "durr right-wing tactic talking point Fox News Alex Jones qanon ivermectin." Like you just called him a capitalist. That's not because he opposes capitalism. The people who support fascism are not generally liberal democratic progressive humans rights lawyers.
2) It is materially insignificant to the greater point that was being made by another poster - it is a distinction without a difference - whether you are othering everyone who differs from you as "fascists" or as merely "useful idiots" which is not, frankly, any better - the problem is most likely on your end.
3) It's in the quote. We have eyes.
1) Words have meanings and you clearly let your right-wing bias reshape the meaning of words. The words you're using don't mean what you think they do. I would suggest going back to school, but in your case education would change nothing because you're too ideologically compromised.
2) See 1
3) No, it's not in the quote. You lack eyes.
I think it’s somewhat instructive that they continue to stick on this point rather than addressing the ‘this is stuff Elon Musk actually did and this is why people in the UK were pissed off’ point I made up the page, and have made multiple times with little actual response.
I mean we’ve seen this 1-2 punch for years with Trump now so it’s not surprising 1. ‘People who don’t like Trump think he’s literally Hitler’ 2. I’ll argue (correctly) that Trump isn’t literally Hitler so I can just perpetually dodge complete valid criticisms
Over the years while dealing with politics I've learned that people who are closer to the political fringes always use narrow/false framing when they consume any kind of media. What you're pointing out with the actual reasoning behind the UK protests is a common problem in politics nowadays, where people take things completely out of context and then act as if the issue is the exact opposite of reality. Some journalistic digging reveals that often the narrative has been flipped 180 by radical voices. It's so common now that I've come to expect it with everything, which is why I often don't comment on fresh news (such as the recent Amstercam hooligan violence) until I've done some rigorous digging myself. This is especially important since cameras are being used to lie to us. This was always a problem, but now everyone has cameras so everyone can spread a lie by using narrow/false framing.
It’s fucking hard to counter as well.
I genuinely don’t know how I did it back in the day, I recall being in some group that was sharing a video about Muslims hunting down other Brits over here and rioting
Video was actually from disturbances in Israel/Palestine like 3 years prior
I mean I knew it was bullshit immediately but I can’t remember how I actually tracked down the original source.
I think the fact that you knew it's BS is because you're not ideologically compromised to begin with. But of course we all have biases that affect how readily we believe a narrative, so none of us are entirely immune. If I take myself as a counter-example to you, when I consume media I have to remind myself that I have some amount of left-wing bias, and that helps me to not automatically believe various claims from left-wingers, but I have to remind myself every time. It's easy for me to notice right-wing misinformation because I come in with the expectation that a significant portion of their information is based on false framing. So regarding left-wing information I have to - ironically - be more cautious because I'm more open to it.
This is how people move further right/left and then to the fringes. People's bias eventually becomes a runaway train where they buy absolutely everything from their own side. I belive this is how Trump came to power. In the late 2010s there was a heavy right-wing disinformation campaign that went online and quickly infected normie online spaces. I'm talking about behavior of the exact same nature as Elon's on Twitter. It reached all of online media, not just social media. Every single online space, including video games, is filled with the propaganda and hateful rhetoric. I'm not just talking about Destiny and Hasan Piker, but even people like Asmongold, who was previously just a normie gamer. He went full right-wing over the years while consuming their propaganda, and recently it resulted in him openly supporting genocide. He was banned from Twitch for two weeks and now he still spreads right-wing propaganda and misinformation. And he's so rich that the split in his audience doesn't bother him. Some of them can't rationalize why they're still watching him while others are cheering for his continued derailment. His arc is one of the best examples of the right-wing shift during the Trump era. What happened to him is also what happened to millions of other people.
EPT
