Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 611

On October 19 2023 00:13 Mikau wrote:
Russian propaganda is so fucking stupid that I can't even tell if you're being glib or that is their actual position now.

Putin claimed in an interview on Russian state television on October 15 that Russian forces are conducting an “active defense” in the Avdiivka, Kupyansk, and Zaporizhia directions.[1] Putin’s characterization of Russian offensive operations near Avdiivka as an “active defense,” instead of “active combat operations” as Russian UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya claimed on October 13, or discussing Russian operations as an “offensive” as some milbloggers have, may be an attempt to temper expectations of significant Russian advances.[2]

[1] https://ria dot ru/20231015/ukraina-1902867872.html ; https://www.interfax dot ru/russia/925939 ; https://tass dot ru/politika/19017079

[2] https://tass dot ru/politika/19008301 ; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...

On October 19 2023 01:43 sertas wrote:

I don't understand why the eu is giving a ton of money aid to serbia, hungary and other failed russian puppet states, it's beyond my understanding, but I guess it's just a part of the welfare spreading of eu.

On October 19 2023 01:43 sertas wrote:
I heard russia recruiting serbians for the war, maybe something for zeo so he can join his brotherly people? Maybe get a russian passport out of it aswell.

I don't understand why the eu is giving a ton of money aid to serbia, hungary and other failed russian puppet states, it's beyond my understanding, but I guess it's just a part of the welfare spreading of eu.

On October 19 2023 02:00 Sent. wrote:
Serbian president condemned Russian recruitment attempts in Serbia.

What Hungary gets from the EU is not a handout. It's their right to receive that money.

On October 19 2023 00:45 KwarK wrote:


From the ISW daily summary quoting Putin’s remarks on the subject.

On October 19 2023 04:43 Mikau wrote:


It would be kind of hilarious if it wasn't literally thousands of lives being lost at the same time.

I wonder how zeo is going to spin this.

On October 19 2023 04:43 Mikau wrote:


It would be kind of hilarious if it wasn't literally thousands of lives being lost at the same time.

I wonder how zeo is going to spin this.

On October 19 2023 01:43 sertas wrote:
I heard russia recruiting serbians for the war, maybe something for zeo so he can join his brotherly people? Maybe get a russian passport out of it aswell.

I don't understand why the eu is giving a ton of money aid to serbia, hungary and other failed russian puppet states, it's beyond my understanding, but I guess it's just a part of the welfare spreading of eu.

On October 19 2023 19:34 zeo wrote:
Edit: also lol at the posts on this page, some of you are close to 40 years old, take your chill pills obsessing over me or anyone else isnt healthy

On October 19 2023 20:04 Excludos wrote:


People aren't obsessed, they're making fun of you

I, too, am very eager to hear how you're going to try to spin this one

On October 19 2023 21:30 zeo wrote:

Its extreemly cringe to read through though. I mean what are you even asking about at this point? Im going to spin their cringe posts they've tacked me onto? What is there to spin? Reading what they write is enough to discredit whatever they are pushing.

What a weird non-sequitur post. Is there a part that is missing?

On October 19 2023 00:45 KwarK wrote:


From the ISW daily summary quoting Putin’s remarks on the subject.

On October 19 2023 21:47 Excludos wrote:




We're all very exited to hear how you're going to spin this absolute disaster of an attack into it being a successful defensive operation. We're assuming you're going to do this based on your history of swallowing Putin's propaganda unquestionably

On October 20 2023 02:04 zeo wrote:

OK. First take a deep breath in, hold it for 4 seconds then breath out for 4 seconds, hold that state for 4 seconds and repeat the cycle. Its called box breathing and I think it will really help you chill out a bit and not seem so...

Before all else, I've addressed ISW before but I'll say it again: Please keep in mind that the Insitute for the Study of War is run by Victoria Nulands sister-in-law - Kimberly Kagan. Her husband Frederick Kagan, works as a visiting analyst and along with his wife receives the lions share of ISWs donations/budget as their salaries. Frederick Kagan is the brother of neocon Robert Kagan. Robert, in turn, is married to US Deputy Secretary of State Victoria 'let them eat cake' Nuland.
This 'think-tank' has a vested interest in pro-Kiev skewing of facts and 'analysis' while doing contract work for US government agencies as 'independants'. So, there should be a disclaimer or footnote attached to whatever ISW puts out.

You apparently want me to give my take on this ISW extract from Kwark, which is itself giving its own take on a Putin interview. So the statement is: "Putin claimed in an interview on Russian state television on October 15 that Russian forces are conducting an “active defense” in the Avdiivka, Kupyansk, and Zaporizhia directions" - ok lets look at what the sources their are using say. Please keep in mind that these are Google translates:

RIA NOVOSTI
MOSCOW, October 15 – RIA Novosti. The Ukrainian counter-offensive failed completely, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in an interview with Pavel Zarubin in the “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin” program on the “Russia 1” channel, a fragment from which the journalist posted on the Telegram channel.
Asking a question about the situation in the military special operation zone, the journalist recalled statements coming from Kyiv that the counteroffensive had stalled.

INTERFAKS
Moscow. October 15. INTERFAX.RU - The counter-offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has failed completely, but in some areas Kyiv is preparing new active offensive operations, said Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“As for the counter-offensive, which is allegedly stalled, it failed completely. We know that in certain areas of the fighting, however, the opposing side is preparing new active offensive operations. We see this, we know,” Putin said in an interview with the Moscow program .Kremlin.Putin" of the TV channel "Russia-1" (VGTRK), a fragment of which was posted by journalist Pavel Zarubin on his Telegram channel.
“And we also react to this accordingly,” Putin added.
Putin said that Russian troops are improving the situation in almost the entire Northeast Military District.
“What is happening now throughout the entire contact is called “active defense”. And our troops are improving their position in almost all of this space. Quite a large space,” said the Russian President.
According to him, this applies “to the Kupyansky direction, this also applies to the Zaporozhye direction, and this applies to the Avdeevsky direction.” “If we take it broadly, settlements there can be called differently, I’m speaking in aggregate. Yes, this is active defense with an improvement in its position in individual areas,” he noted.
Russia does not hide this, Putin said, and thanked the Russian Armed Forces, the leadership and, above all, the fighters on the front lines for their courage and heroism.

TASS
The President noted that Kiev is preparing new active offensive operations in certain sectors of the front.
MOSCOW, October 15. /TASS/. The Ukrainian counteroffensive has completely failed, although Kyiv is preparing new active offensive operations in certain sectors of the front. Russian President Vladimir Putin stated this in an interview with the “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin” program, a fragment of which journalist Pavel Zarubin published on his Telegram channel.
“As for the counter-offensive, which is supposedly stalled, it failed completely. We know that in certain areas of the fighting, the opposing side is nevertheless preparing new active offensive operations. We see this, we know it. And we also react to it accordingly,” - Putin said.

Now, after reading all that go back to the statement only one of these sources actually has anything to do with what ISW is claiming. Putin says the counter-offensive has failed completely in all three, one says that they are improving positions and 'in aggregate you can call it an active-defense'. If I've understood you correctly you have a problem with the term 'active-defense' being used instead of 'offence'.

And you're right I in general have a pet peeve with these kinds of word-plays. For months people would talk about the Ukrainian 'counter-offensive' when obviously after 6 months of talking about it and nothing happening it became just an 'offensive'. I mean look, everyone wants to brand armies as defensive, you the the defense ministry, the defense industry ect ect. I'm not quite sure what kind of spin you are looking for from me. The ISW article is a spin on the words of Putin that is spinning taking territory as defensive, so that you can spin it to look like Russia is losing.

I find it interesting that ISW doesnt think active defense and active combat are the same thing. If you are engaged in defense... you are engaged in combat... actively. Am I missing something here? If every Russian official is not using the exact same words its somehow indicative of... something?

Lets read the TASS article used as a source by ISW:

Russian troops have switched to active combat operations along almost the entire front, said Russia's permanent representative to the UN
UN, October 13. /TASS/. Russian troops began active combat operations along the entire front, and the Ukrainian counteroffensive can be considered completed. This was stated by the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the UN Vasily Nebenzya.
For several days now, Russian troops have begun active combat operations along almost the entire front line.
Thus, the so-called Ukrainian counter-offensive can already be considered completed,” he said at a meeting convened at Russia’s initiative on Western arms supplies to Kyiv.
Nebenzya added that the Kiev regime, apart from the tens of thousands of dead recruits it mobilized, as well as the hundreds of units of destroyed Western equipment, “cannot boast of anything.” “However, our Western colleagues, instead of putting an end to this massacre, continue to throw weapons at him, like a drug to a drug addict, thereby prolonging his agony. Their task, through the hands of Ukraine, is to inflict as much damage on Russia as possible, and also to make the territory of Ukraine uninhabitable to the maximum extent possible.” ", he concluded.
The Ukrainian army has been making unsuccessful offensive attempts since June 4. As Russian President Vladimir Putin said on October 5, Kyiv lost over 90 thousand people and more than 550 tanks in four months. The Russian side has repeatedly emphasized that the “counter-offensive” did not bring significant results

On October 19 2023 21:30 zeo wrote:
Reading what they write is enough to discredit whatever they are pushing.