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On August 24 2023 17:38 aseq wrote:
To all of us it seems quite obvious what happened, but what about the Russian common man? Do they just believe everything the dictator tells them? Are they trained well enough to doublethink and it's BOTH Putin's strength and an accident at the same time?
There were good reasons why this happened now and not right after the coup attempt. At that point, Wagner might have been seen as a counter-power to Putin, but now, it should be clear who is really in charge.
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On August 24 2023 16:40 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 16:23 zeo wrote:
The top of the Russian state had no reason to kill Prigozhin and the leadership of Wagner. First sentence and you are already in crazy land. Of course there is - Prigozhin openly challenged Putin and made him look weak. That is something a dictator cannot allow to go unpunished under any circumstances. There is a reason everyone with a brain was predicting this.
Everyone huffing on propaganda and cope aimed at the lowest common denominator you mean. People don't like to think, they like simple things they can understand like cartoon villans and capeshit movies. Wagner was disarmed and taken down more than a few notches from a few months ago when they burried the Ukrainian army at Bahmut. Litterally a non factor in Ukraine and moved on to Africa and training the Belarussian army.
There are more people that can profit from internal strife something like this can cause in Russia than Russia itself.
I am actually most fascinated by the fact that Russia is still at war, that is, it has not been thoroughly cleaned out of Ukraine. I have never seen a country that goes into an expeditionary war (and that is a very demanding and complex undertaking) experience so much internal turmoil and reckoning, plus blows from the outside, and manage to maintain itself on the front. No one alive can say who is in favor and who is in disgrace, which general has been dismissed and who is in office, who has a bright career ahead and who will fall out of the window tomorrow, who has been removed by the FSB and who has been removed by the SBU and MI6. The number of factions in the Kremlin, Defence Ministary, the military and various paramilitary groups isnt known. The bullshit literally never ends.
But they're holding out on the battlefield and beating back most of the richest countries on the planet and their proxy. Really goes to show you how incompetent and useless most of the political and military leadership in the West is if they are getting clowned on by these guys. The counteroffencive has been a monumental debacle, changing the news cycle for a few days will do little. We will come back to reality eventualy
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Canada11370 Posts
Yes, yes. Russia is the plucky Rebel Alliance against the evil Galactic Empire led by Emperor Palpatine Zelensky and his NATO Death Star. All else is cope and propaganda.
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On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet
Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit.
Zeo, you are commedy genius.
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On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius.
Last time, i glossed over that because there was more overt bullshit, but yes.
Russia is not "beating back most of the richest countries on the planets". Russia is losing to Ukraine with whatever materiel the west can/wants to send on a peacetime economy.
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On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius.
Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West.
We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate.
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The enemy is both weak and strong at the same time. It's still just as hilarious to me as the first time I understood it.
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On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate.
Are you hallucinating? Who said anything like that?
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On August 24 2023 18:46 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. Are you hallucinating? Who said anything like that?
About the truck bomb? Read pages 551 through to 553 of this thread
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On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate.
They were not defending suicide bombing, they were trying you to understand that suicide bombing was not as bad as what Russians did in Ukraine. but yeah, must have been MI6 posting stuff with our accounts and changing key words so you get confused.
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On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poland also doesn't count as the West.
Excuse me? That's quite the statement. Care to elaborate?
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On August 24 2023 18:57 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. They were not defending suicide bombing, they were trying you to understand that suicide bombing was not as bad as what Russians did in Ukraine. but yeah, must have been MI6 posting stuff with our accounts and changing key words so you get confused.
Bare in mind zeo accuses Ukraine of murdering its own Ukrainian citizens. His claims make more sense if you start everything from the premise that Ukraine is possessed by the Devil and Russia is our Lord Savior.
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On August 24 2023 18:57 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poland also doesn't count as the West. Excuse me? That's quite the statement. Care to elaborate?
Spare him. I am not even angry at this.
As post-communist state we can hardly count as western. To the Serbs or a bunch of the russian morons we are "traitors to the Slavdom", whatever that funny "Slavdom" term even is.
Than his bubling has even less credibility, because western loss in personel is neglible. Love his bullshitting about "beating West", when the actual number of western volunteers hardly could be even called "expeditionary force".
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On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 16:40 justanothertownie wrote:On August 24 2023 16:23 zeo wrote:
The top of the Russian state had no reason to kill Prigozhin and the leadership of Wagner. First sentence and you are already in crazy land. Of course there is - Prigozhin openly challenged Putin and made him look weak. That is something a dictator cannot allow to go unpunished under any circumstances. There is a reason everyone with a brain was predicting this. Everyone huffing on propaganda and cope aimed at the lowest common denominator you mean. People don't like to think, they like simple things they can understand like cartoon villans and capeshit movies. Wagner was disarmed and taken down more than a few notches from a few months ago when they burried the Ukrainian army at Bahmut. Litterally a non factor in Ukraine and moved on to Africa and training the Belarussian army. There are more people that can profit from internal strife something like this can cause in Russia than Russia itself. I am actually most fascinated by the fact that Russia is still at war, that is, it has not been thoroughly cleaned out of Ukraine. I have never seen a country that goes into an expeditionary war (and that is a very demanding and complex undertaking) experience so much internal turmoil and reckoning, plus blows from the outside, and manage to maintain itself on the front. No one alive can say who is in favor and who is in disgrace, which general has been dismissed and who is in office, who has a bright career ahead and who will fall out of the window tomorrow, who has been removed by the FSB and who has been removed by the SBU and MI6. The number of factions in the Kremlin, Defence Ministary, the military and various paramilitary groups isnt known. The bullshit literally never ends. But they're holding out on the battlefield and beating back most of the richest countries on the planet and their proxy. Really goes to show you how incompetent and useless most of the political and military leadership in the West is if they are getting clowned on by these guys. The counteroffencive has been a monumental debacle, changing the news cycle for a few days will do little. We will come back to reality eventualy
Occupying an entrenched area is no easy task, for Ukraine nor Russia. The separatists held out in the east for many years already, and now there has been time to lay mines in the newly acquired areas too. This war will almost eventually 100% end with negotiations, but both sides think they can gain position by prolonging the war.
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Russian Federation612 Posts
On August 24 2023 17:38 aseq wrote:
To all of us it seems quite obvious what happened, but what about the Russian common man? Do they just believe everything the dictator tells them? Are they trained well enough to doublethink and it's BOTH Putin's strength and an accident at the same time?
Russian common man perfectly understands that this is an intentional kill, debates are generally around "how" (bomb or missile), and "who" (Putin personally for March on Moscow, higher ups in MoD trying to take over Wagner, or Ukrainians trying to make a present for their population on Independence day).
As for attitude towards it - while some are angry at Kremlin, most either:
1) don't care
2) think "good riddance"
Prigozhin lost a ton of his popularity with his coup attempt, especially with so many Russian aircraft shot down by Wagner.
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On August 24 2023 18:54 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:46 Simberto wrote:On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. Are you hallucinating? Who said anything like that? About the truck bomb? Read pages 551 through to 553 of this thread
No, about the plane suicide bomber thing.
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Northern Ireland26040 Posts
On August 24 2023 18:57 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. They were not defending suicide bombing, they were trying you to understand that suicide bombing was not as bad as what Russians did in Ukraine. but yeah, must have been MI6 posting stuff with our accounts and changing key words so you get confused.
I’m not really sure why such a stigma exists over suicide bombing anyway.
I mean doomed last stands like the Spartans at Thermopylae are still admired thousands of years later.
Blokes walked into machine gun and artillery in both World Wars, and with considerably less sophistication in the First and incurred horrendous casualty rates.
One is perceived as bravery personified, one cowardly by many when the only real difference is swapping a high chance of death for it becoming a certainty.
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On August 24 2023 19:31 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:54 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:46 Simberto wrote:On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. Are you hallucinating? Who said anything like that? About the truck bomb? Read pages 551 through to 553 of this thread No, about the plane suicide bomber thing.
I meant how the people planting bombs and assasinating enemies with bombs being last on the list of suspects downing an aeroplane. Not a direct quote from someone here regarding the plane
On August 24 2023 19:36 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 18:57 0x64 wrote:On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. They were not defending suicide bombing, they were trying you to understand that suicide bombing was not as bad as what Russians did in Ukraine. but yeah, must have been MI6 posting stuff with our accounts and changing key words so you get confused. I’m not really sure why such a stigma exists over suicide bombing anyway. I mean doomed last stands like the Spartans at Thermopylae are still admired thousands of years later. Blokes walked into machine gun and artillery in both World Wars, and with considerably less sophistication in the First and incurred horrendous casualty rates. One is perceived as bravery personified, one cowardly by many when the only real difference is swapping a high chance of death for it becoming a certainty.
There is a difference between killing yourself and combatants compared to killing innocents not involved so that you can 'send a message' or killing a combatant and a bunch of innocents together with them.
Kamikaze are not the same as the Spartans or the Alamo, and way different than the planes hitting the WTC
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On August 24 2023 20:32 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2023 19:31 Simberto wrote:On August 24 2023 18:54 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:46 Simberto wrote:On August 24 2023 18:45 zeo wrote:On August 24 2023 18:29 hitthat wrote:On August 24 2023 18:09 zeo wrote:
beating back most of the richest countries on the planet Ahahahahaha, you must really believe in that "10k Poles killed in Ukraine" or "we are fighting with whole West" bullshit. Zeo, you are commedy genius. Poles went to Ukraine and died but hardly 10k. Poland also doesn't count as the West. We had people here defending suicide truck bombings days ago now saying the suicide bombers couldnt possibly bomb a plane. The World if a funny place mate. Are you hallucinating? Who said anything like that? About the truck bomb? Read pages 551 through to 553 of this thread No, about the plane suicide bomber thing. I meant how the people planting bombs and assasinating enemies with bombs being last on the list of suspects downing an aeroplane. Not a direct quote from someone here regarding the plane
So you just made it up, got it.
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Finland946 Posts
On August 24 2023 18:46 Magic Powers wrote:
The enemy is both weak and strong at the same time. It's still just as hilarious to me as the first time I understood it.
The Ukrainian army was completely destroyed at Bakhmut, while the Russian defenders in the south are now putting up incredibly valiant efforts against a massively superior enemy force that's simultaneously extremely ineffective.
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EPT
