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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 426

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17691 Posts
May 05 2023 17:40 GMT
#8501


Diplomats throwing hands during the Black Sea economic conference.



Prigozhin publicly stated that if Wagner won't receive more ammo they're pulling out of Bakhmut on the 10th of May.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
May 05 2023 17:50 GMT
#8502
On May 05 2023 20:25 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Prigozhin supported murdering his own troops with a sledgehammer but now surely cares about them being fathers and sons suddenly.

It all depends on what loses he defines as acceptable. Losses as high as they're getting is bad for business.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 05 2023 19:20 GMT
#8503
--- Nuked ---
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8235 Posts
May 06 2023 05:03 GMT
#8504
Dear god. Russia is bombing large portions of Bakhmut with incendiary rounds. It looks like hell on earth
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12056 Posts
May 06 2023 05:26 GMT
#8505
They have been using that type of ammunition to clear out higher buildings in the city for weeks now. What makes this time different?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-06 13:02:02
May 06 2023 13:00 GMT
#8506
Zakhar Prilepin was blown up in his car by a remote IED after dropping his daughter off. Seriously injured according to social media, the driver was killed.



"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5761 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-06 13:36:28
May 06 2023 13:35 GMT
#8507
For context, the guy served in the First Chechen War as an OMON commander, most likely pacifying civilians. During Russia's invasion of Ukraine, he served for a couple of years as a commander of one of DNR battalions (in 2014-2015). He bragged how many Ukrainians he's killed. More recently, in January this year, he joined the national guard and was deployed in Ukraine. Most likely tasked with repressing civilians again. To top it off, he was a prominent Nazbol and an advocate of being even more ruthless in Ukraine, if you can imagine that.

All in all, I hope he dies. :-)
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4606 Posts
May 06 2023 19:57 GMT
#8508
Offtopic: It's really funny OMON written in Cyrillic Looks like OMOH... And gay propaganda is banned in Russia, yet every time they see their reflection, they have large HOMO text on their uniform. Last time I met one in uniform, I didn't bother asking him what he though about it.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 06 2023 20:34 GMT
#8509
--- Nuked ---
BradTheBaneling
Profile Joined October 2018
38 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-06 22:37:31
May 06 2023 22:35 GMT
#8510
On May 04 2023 16:28 Artesimo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2023 10:01 Sermokala wrote:
I think its worse If it really was a drone attack that managed to make its way to the kremlin itself like its much worse that your air defence is so bad that you can't stop drones until they make it to the place they think Putin is suppose to be.


It looked like a small drone that would be launched from a couple km away at most, potentially just a couple blocks over. If that was the case, then there is absolutely 0 conclusions to draw from this in regards to their air defence. Apart from that it looks like some kind of air defence around the kremlin took it out immediately (explosion seems to happen while its in the air, a couple of meters away from any building). It looks bad for propaganda purposes I agree, but from what we know at the moment it at most tells us that the air defences around the kremlin are working. Even the fact that its possible some ukrainian elements made it into russia to launch a drone near the kremlin is hardly a big own without further information given how long the war has been going and the long russian border just with ukraine.

This is nothing like when ukraine supposedly used their tu-141s to strike deep within russian territory from outside russia.


I don’t think there’s an unmanned ground-to-air system for low flying consumer drones occurring around the Kremlin. I don’t even know what would do that other than a CIWS and that’s probably not something you’re going to be firing 5-10m from the Kremlin itself.

I don’t think anti consumer drone measures were very high on the priority list for a military that has alleged:

- 5th generation fighters (Obviously not, but even if they did, they could only be made with a massive reliance on imports from antagonistic countries)
- The worlds largest nuclear weapon arsenal (plutonium cores need a lot of maintenance)
- A nuclear submarine fleet
- Supersonic long range bombers
- An anti-ICBM system over Moscow
- One of the largest collections of ‘functioning’ armoured material on Earth
- An aircraft carrier (lol)
- Maneuverable hypersonic delivery systems
- Nuclear doomsday autonomous submarine
- The country with the 6th most military personnel

All that and more on a military budget that by PPP is about 4 times greater than the military budget of Australia or Italy. Those two countries have maybe one of the above items, Australia is pushing trying to afford two. Australia and Italy have the respectively 70th and 30th largest militaries by personnel. Here’s some info on the military personnel costs of the US military:

The US Department of Defence in FY2018 spent 30% of the $650 billion budget paying military personnel. This doesn’t include the $75 billion spent on civilian contractors by the DoD, the $190 billion budget request from the Department of Veterans Affairs or the $85 billion in military pension costs paid from the Treasury that year. The United States spent double on personnel in 2018 compared to the entire military spending of Russia in 2022 - and yet Russia is tit-for-tat on both military technology and personnel?

I mean I just don’t see where they can find space in that budget for an anti-air system for hobby drones around the Kremlin. Although it’s always possible some money is appropriated from their space program, from warhead maintenance or from pfc. Conscriptivich’s mom and Babushka…

PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-07 11:04:48
May 06 2023 22:44 GMT
#8511
Prigozhin now says Wagner will cease its participation in the war effective immediately due to unsustainable losses caused by munitions shortages from Russia's MoD. Whether it's more rhetorical ratcheting-up for a Russian audience, genuine, or some feeble attempt to lure Ukraine into a trap, I don't know.



Seems like something was mistranslated or misunderstood. It appears Prigozhin actually said he'd hand over Wagner's positions to Kadyrov's forces on May 10, not withdraw immediately.

Aaaand now Prigozhin says he's been promised weapons from the MoD to continue fighting. So it was all a bit of loud theater all along. I recall reading Ukraine saying they were seeing no differences in Wagner movements after Prigozhin first threatened to leave, and were in fact reinforcing.

I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 06 2023 22:59 GMT
#8512
--- Nuked ---
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4606 Posts
May 06 2023 23:32 GMT
#8513
The thing about unsustainable losses is that the point of no recovery is a hard line that you know you crossed only after you crossed it.
Once you crossed it, you try to hide it as long as possible to not look like a fool. Dominos have started to fall.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12056 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-07 05:31:57
May 07 2023 05:29 GMT
#8514
There are plenty of Russian reconstitution that lose effectiveness. I am not sure about this source but it shows that high losses are not rare in this war.

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-brigade-destroyed-reconstituted-8-times-after-losses-isw-1790307

Wagner has a larger issue though since they can't draft people to join. Once the prisons dried up for them there were few people it could recruit to run suicide runs.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 09 2023 17:55 GMT
#8515
French Journalist Arman Soldin has been killed in Eastern Ukraine. Probably in Bakhmut.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 10 2023 14:14 GMT
#8516
--- Nuked ---
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 10 2023 14:54 GMT
#8517
So the Pentagon has confirmed that one of it's Patriot systems successfully shot down a Russian "hypersonic" missile. Now the only mystery remains where the remnants of said missile is headed.

The Pentagon confirmed the downing of a Russian "hypersonic" Kinzhal missile by Ukrainian air defenses on Thursday, in a Tuesday US Defense Department briefing.

"I can confirm that they did down a Russian missile by employing the Patriot missile defense system," said Pentagon Press Secretary Brig.-Gen. Pat Ryder, later clarifying that he indeed said this in relation to a Kinzhal.

Ryder said that he wouldn't get into the specifics or characterization of the shooting down of the Kinzhal as the first intercept of a hypersonic missile in combat.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Kremlin officials had in the past described the air-launched ballistic missile as a hypersonic weapon that Western air defenses wouldn't be able to intercept due to its extreme speed and maneuverability. NATO and US reports cast doubt on the otherwise formidable weapon as a true hypersonic weapon.

While initially there were mixed messages from the Ukrainian military immediately after the missile's downing, the Ukrainian Air Force confirmed on Saturday that a Kinzhal had been downed for the first time since they had been used against Ukraine.

The Kinzhal missile was first used in combat in March against a Ukrainian position and has been used several more times during the war, according to Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

"The Patriot system, a new powerful tool of Ukrainian air defense, shot down a Kh-47 hypersonic aeroballistic missile launched by Russian war criminals at our country," Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov wrote on Sunday. "Previously, we had no way of destroying such targets, but with the support of our friends the impossible becomes possible!"

The Pentagon and Ukrainian air defenses in the Ukraine-Russia War

The vulnerability of Ukrainian air defenses has come into question in recent months with the leak of Pentagon papers. The intelligence documents indicated that Kyiv was fast depleting its Russian-origin anti-air munitions and that Western allies were rushing to rearm Ukraine with NATO air defense weapons.

"We're going to continue to rush ground-based air defense capabilities and munitions to help Ukraine control its sovereign skies and to help Ukraine defend its citizens from Russian cruise missiles and Iranian drones," Ryder said on Tuesday night. "And again, as evidenced by today's USAI (Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative) announcement and the procurement of additional air defense systems and munitions, this is something that we're going to keep after both in the near term and the long term."

The Pentagon announced on Tuesday a $1.2 billion defense package that included air defense systems and munitions, equipment to integrate western launchers, missiles and radars into Ukraine's systems, as well as ammunition for anti-drone weaponry.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43670 Posts
May 10 2023 14:58 GMT
#8518
I enjoy the continued surprise in the media about the contradiction between Ukraine needing air defence in an assessment a year ago and Ukraine having air defence today. As if the whole purpose of a report detailing Ukraine’s weaknesses wouldn’t be to shore up those weaknesses.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22129 Posts
May 10 2023 16:15 GMT
#8519
On May 10 2023 23:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So the Pentagon has confirmed that one of it's Patriot systems successfully shot down a Russian "hypersonic" missile. Now the only mystery remains where the remnants of said missile is headed.

Show nested quote +
The Pentagon confirmed the downing of a Russian "hypersonic" Kinzhal missile by Ukrainian air defenses on Thursday, in a Tuesday US Defense Department briefing.

"I can confirm that they did down a Russian missile by employing the Patriot missile defense system," said Pentagon Press Secretary Brig.-Gen. Pat Ryder, later clarifying that he indeed said this in relation to a Kinzhal.

Ryder said that he wouldn't get into the specifics or characterization of the shooting down of the Kinzhal as the first intercept of a hypersonic missile in combat.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Kremlin officials had in the past described the air-launched ballistic missile as a hypersonic weapon that Western air defenses wouldn't be able to intercept due to its extreme speed and maneuverability. NATO and US reports cast doubt on the otherwise formidable weapon as a true hypersonic weapon.

While initially there were mixed messages from the Ukrainian military immediately after the missile's downing, the Ukrainian Air Force confirmed on Saturday that a Kinzhal had been downed for the first time since they had been used against Ukraine.

The Kinzhal missile was first used in combat in March against a Ukrainian position and has been used several more times during the war, according to Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

"The Patriot system, a new powerful tool of Ukrainian air defense, shot down a Kh-47 hypersonic aeroballistic missile launched by Russian war criminals at our country," Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov wrote on Sunday. "Previously, we had no way of destroying such targets, but with the support of our friends the impossible becomes possible!"

The Pentagon and Ukrainian air defenses in the Ukraine-Russia War

The vulnerability of Ukrainian air defenses has come into question in recent months with the leak of Pentagon papers. The intelligence documents indicated that Kyiv was fast depleting its Russian-origin anti-air munitions and that Western allies were rushing to rearm Ukraine with NATO air defense weapons.

"We're going to continue to rush ground-based air defense capabilities and munitions to help Ukraine control its sovereign skies and to help Ukraine defend its citizens from Russian cruise missiles and Iranian drones," Ryder said on Tuesday night. "And again, as evidenced by today's USAI (Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative) announcement and the procurement of additional air defense systems and munitions, this is something that we're going to keep after both in the near term and the long term."

The Pentagon announced on Tuesday a $1.2 billion defense package that included air defense systems and munitions, equipment to integrate western launchers, missiles and radars into Ukraine's systems, as well as ammunition for anti-drone weaponry.


Source
Oh that missile is 100% going to be examined by the US. I don't see why anyone would doubt that.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-10 16:33:07
May 10 2023 16:30 GMT
#8520
It appears the promise of the Russian MoD to supply ammo to Wagner was not fulfilled entirely. Making Bakhmut difficult to hold in all areas. Now both sides are not in communication.



"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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