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Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 558

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-10-29 15:04:42
October 29 2026 15:00 GMT
#11141
On October 29 2026 23:50 dyhb wrote:
Let me know if you have anything on the subject of apartheid that you haven’t said yet.


Sure. Since I've already mentioned how Archbishop Desmond Tutu who was instrumental to the abolition of apartheid in South Africa repeatedly described Israel's occupation of the West Bank as such, e.g. it's "in many ways worse than apartheid in South Africa" in 2012, and the situation has severely worsened since then. I could also mention other survivors of South African apartheid saying similar things. I could also mention how civil rights activists like Tutu, such as Martin Luther King Jr., were smeared as terrorist-supporters for opposing segregation or other kinds of racialism in their own countries. Since Arab turnout in the recent Israeli election seems to interest you, I could also point out turnout differences in Eastern European elections during the Soviet occupation didn't really prove that they weren't being oppressed either.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2110 Posts
October 29 2026 15:16 GMT
#11142
On October 29 2026 23:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Israeli Arabs are grossly discriminated against by police, courts, and federal politicians. Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are ranting right now how the leaders of the Arab parties should be arrested and the election was stolen by them, not unlike how black people in the United States are disproportionately killed by police, receive harsher sentences for the same crimes committed by white people, and Republicans cried fraud because too many black people vote in elections. Seems pretty obvious Israel would be much harsher on the Israeli Arabs if it were politically feasible, whereas they've suffered virtually no consequences for harshly abusing the the ones outside of their lawful borders in the West Bank and Gaza.


“Grossly discriminated against” you guys have a real problem with language.

Black people in the US do face discrimination and socioeconomic barriers. Is the US an apartheid state?

Seems pretty obvious Israel would be much harsher on the Israeli Arabs if it were politically feasible, whereas they've suffered virtually no consequences for harshly abusing the the ones outside of their lawful borders in the West Bank and Gaza


What does this even mean? You know who’s been running the country for the last four years right?
#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12610 Posts
October 29 2026 15:24 GMT
#11143
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.
No will to live, no wish to die
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
October 29 2026 15:26 GMT
#11144
Your question was, "Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?"

The answer: The apartheid accusation is about how Israel is treating Palestinians, not Israeli Arabs, but the two aren't unrelated. They don't really provide full equal rights to Israeli Arabs, the governing coalition is currently trying to take more of their rights away, it's obvious they certainly would if it were politically feasible. On the other hand it's absolutely politically feasible for that same coalition to do a lot worse to Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, so they're unhesitatingly doing that. I don't think there's anything unclear or ambiguous about my answer.

"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1887 Posts
October 29 2026 16:03 GMT
#11145
Don't let him try to make this about Israeli Arabs.

That's what they always do, try to talk about something else that is only tangentaly related.

The facts are that what Israel is doing in West Bank absolutely fits the definition of Apartheid:



1. Dual Legal Systems in the Same Territory

Israeli settlers living in the West Bank are governed under Israeli civil and criminal law, granting them full constitutional protections, due process, and democratic rights.
In contrast, neighboring Palestinians living in the same geographic area are subject to Israeli military law.

2. Severe Restrictions on Movement and the Permit System

Thoroughly documented, well known, many documentaries, reports and news articles were written by folks who went there and experienced this on their own.

3. Systematic Land Confiscation and Forced Displacement

Again, mountains of evidence, videos, testimonials not just from Palestinians but news crews recording this over the last 20 years.


Any time this is brought up they start talking about something else.

Same as Genocide, same as Ethnic Clensing. Difference being that with those you can even find some legalistic ways to wiggle out of those definitions, not really with Apartheid.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6646 Posts
October 29 2026 16:19 GMT
#11146
If you define a group as people who don't live in Israel and aren't Israeli citizens, and then say Israel is oppressing them by not letting them in Israel or giving them citizenship, you haven't identified apartheid, you have described a nation-state and circularly defined an oppressed group as people outside it.

Then you go, okay but isn't it punching down because maybe Palestine aren't a nation-state, they're something else? They aren't a complete nation-state because the last time there were negotiations, they declared an intifada and then later splintered among themselves and apparently abandoned the whole idea.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
October 29 2026 16:23 GMT
#11147
Yet another pointless post that makes no acknowledgement of the IDF occupation whatsoever. Iron Curtain-era East Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc. were super free countries with fair elections if you also pretend you don't see all the Soviet tanks and soldiers crushing demonstrators.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2110 Posts
October 29 2026 17:02 GMT
#11148
On October 30 2026 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.


I don’t respond to questions posed in bad faith.

Again, apartheid was a system of racial oppression and segregation. Based explicitly on race and more accurately white supremacist ideology.

If you say race is not the issue here, then by definition it is not apartheid. Words have meanings.

#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6646 Posts
October 29 2026 17:03 GMT
#11149
On October 30 2026 01:23 LightSpectra wrote:
Yet another pointless post that makes no acknowledgement of the IDF occupation whatsoever. Iron Curtain-era East Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc. were super free countries with fair elections if you also pretend you don't see all the Soviet tanks and soldiers crushing demonstrators.

None of those were apartheid countries.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States850 Posts
October 29 2026 17:19 GMT
#11150
I hate it when the anti-Israel types slip when typing "occupation" and accidentally type "apartheid." It makes understanding them so difficult. Shall we call it the Oslo II "Occupation Agreement" signed in 1995? The PLO can be the Vichi Regime or the Polish Committee of National Liberation.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5892 Posts
October 29 2026 17:21 GMT
#11151
What exactly are the occupied territories according to Israel? They're either a separate state or part of Israel. Is there any other option?
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-10-29 17:28:53
October 29 2026 17:24 GMT
#11152
On October 30 2026 02:02 RJGooner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2026 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.


I don’t respond to questions posed in bad faith.

Again, apartheid was a system of racial oppression and segregation. Based explicitly on race and more accurately white supremacist ideology.

If you say race is not the issue here, then by definition it is not apartheid. Words have meanings.



Race is the issue because a Jewish Israeli can steal a Palestinian's home in the West Bank and then vote in Israeli elections for the IDF to protect them from the consequences of doing so but an Arab Palestinian can't vote in those same Israeli elections despite living in the same area. What do you call a social system where someone's ethnicity (and it's not purely religious identity because Palestinians generally can't convert to Judaism and become Israeli citizens; one of the few guys that actually succeeded in doing so was murdered by Israel anyway) determines whether or not they have a say in the military and police governing their country?

On October 30 2026 02:19 dyhb wrote:
I hate it when the anti-Israel types slip when typing "occupation" and accidentally type "apartheid." It makes understanding them so difficult. Shall we call it the Oslo II "Occupation Agreement" signed in 1995? The PLO can be the Vichi Regime or the Polish Committee of National Liberation.


Yes, what a wild "slip" I made five posts in a row lol. You asked me to add to my argument and then proceeded to ignore everything I mentioned, I guess because you know you can't give adequate answers.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States850 Posts
October 29 2026 17:45 GMT
#11153
On October 30 2026 02:21 maybenexttime wrote:
What exactly are the occupied territories according to Israel? They're either a separate state or part of Israel. Is there any other option?
Disputed territories whose last legal status was set by Oslo, more or less. You can read more. Obviously not viewed the same way by other countries.

On October 30 2026 02:24 LightSpectra wrote:
Yes, what a wild "slip" I made five posts in a row lol. You asked me to add to my argument and then proceeded to ignore everything I mentioned, I guess because you know you can't give adequate answers.
I saw that reference to Desmond Tutu, don't worry about it. Right before doing the fan favorite pivot to Hitler, no doubt.

I'm referring to defending your designation of apartheid by making oblique reference to occupation. I think you're already twisted up enough to need to go there regarding the difference between Palestinians living in Israel versus Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. Like another poster mentioned, if Israel were so eager to also oppress Palestinians living in Israel, "You know who’s been running the country for the last four years right?" You're already hit occupation and settler-colonialism on the merry-go-round buzzwords after "apartheid", so I just want to note when we've passed "prison state/open-air prison" "concentration camps" "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" and rotate back around to apartheid.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
October 29 2026 17:47 GMT
#11154
If you saw the "what about Israeli Arabs" objection, then surely you also saw me reply to it twice, so why not reply to what I've already written instead of anticipating when I'll try to shoot back with the same word salad your own post is filled with?
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6646 Posts
October 29 2026 17:52 GMT
#11155
On October 30 2026 02:24 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2026 02:02 RJGooner wrote:
On October 30 2026 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.


I don’t respond to questions posed in bad faith.

Again, apartheid was a system of racial oppression and segregation. Based explicitly on race and more accurately white supremacist ideology.

If you say race is not the issue here, then by definition it is not apartheid. Words have meanings.


Race is the issue because a Jewish Israeli can steal a Palestinian's home in the West Bank and then vote in Israeli elections for the IDF to protect them from the consequences of doing so but an Arab Palestinian can't vote in those same Israeli elections despite living in the same area. What do you call a social system where someone's ethnicity (and it's not purely religious identity because Palestinians generally can't convert to Judaism and become Israeli citizens; one of the few guys that actually succeeded in doing so was murdered by Israel anyway) determines whether or not they have a say in the military and police governing their country?

The consequences of doing so = Some Palestinians would kill them? Almost no home stealing as pictured here happens.

Notice Israelis cannot vote in PA elections. You just said it was the same area (it's not, hence the lines on the map). Make sense of that.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3459 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-10-29 17:59:40
October 29 2026 17:56 GMT
#11156
On October 30 2026 02:52 oBlade wrote:
The consequences of doing so = Some Palestinians would kill them? Almost no home stealing as pictured here happens.


The "almost" in that sentence is doing some heavy lifting.

Notice Israelis cannot vote in PA elections. You just said it was the same area (it's not, hence the lines on the map). Make sense of that.


Sure, refer back to these two posts you never acknowledged:

On October 29 2026 21:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Elections or lack thereof in the West Bank make no difference whatsoever to the IDF-backed colonists stealing Palestinian land, even though the settlers stealing the land get to vote for whether the IDF will protect them. They could have a 100%-turnout election tomorrow and elect a perfectly liberal secular democratic government and that would do jackshit about the occupying force that destroys their crops, sabotages their water supply, evicts people from their homes, and then shoots at them for not leaving fast enough.

Your argument is like saying there was no apartheid in South Africa 1948-1994 because black Africans could vote in the student elections at universities they were allowed in.


On October 29 2026 22:15 Legan wrote:
Establishing a weak and corrupt government that is then pitted against locals is a textbook tactic of colonialism. The government takes the blame for failures and unpopular policies. When unrest happens, the government can get support from the colonists. If the government actually tries to change the situation, it is still weak enough that other local players can be elevated to be the governing body. These players can also make their own deals with the colonists. This gives the colonial power free rein to do whatever they want.

Any Palestinian who tries to organise, build, and develop things for the better will eventually run into Israeli settlers and the IDF. They can't protect Palestinians from the violence directed at them. If someone attempts they will be eventually labelled as dangerous terrorist and killed. Any government that can't protect its people will be unpopular. This is fertile ground for corruption, as the work stops mattering and only brings the sword down on your own head. Avoiding elections and the instability they could bring probably saves lives, as there is no rallying around taking more direct action.


i.e. the Palestinian Authority has basically no power compared to the IDF. If you lived in the West Bank had to choose which government's elections you could vote in, Israel's or West Bank's, you'd be an idiot to pick the latter. Much like how the government of Hungary in 1956 mattered a lot less for Hungarian affairs than the government of the USSR.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
TL+ Member
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18011 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-10-29 18:05:43
October 29 2026 18:00 GMT
#11157
On October 30 2026 02:24 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2026 02:02 RJGooner wrote:
On October 30 2026 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.


I don’t respond to questions posed in bad faith.

Again, apartheid was a system of racial oppression and segregation. Based explicitly on race and more accurately white supremacist ideology.

If you say race is not the issue here, then by definition it is not apartheid. Words have meanings.



Race is the issue because a Jewish Israeli can steal a Palestinian's home in the West Bank and then vote in Israeli elections for the IDF to protect them from the consequences of doing so but an Arab Palestinian can't vote in those same Israeli elections despite living in the same area. What do you call a social system where someone's ethnicity (and it's not purely religious identity because Palestinians generally can't convert to Judaism and become Israeli citizens; one of the few guys that actually succeeded in doing so was murdered by Israel anyway) determines whether or not they have a say in the military and police governing their country?

Show nested quote +
On October 30 2026 02:19 dyhb wrote:
I hate it when the anti-Israel types slip when typing "occupation" and accidentally type "apartheid." It makes understanding them so difficult. Shall we call it the Oslo II "Occupation Agreement" signed in 1995? The PLO can be the Vichi Regime or the Polish Committee of National Liberation.


Yes, what a wild "slip" I made five posts in a row lol. You asked me to add to my argument and then proceeded to ignore everything I mentioned, I guess because you know you can't give adequate answers.

Jewish-Israeli is not a race though. Ariel Helwani and Nathan Fielder are not the same race.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12610 Posts
October 29 2026 18:33 GMT
#11158
On October 30 2026 02:02 RJGooner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2026 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:45 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:
On October 29 2026 22:48 RJGooner wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:42 dyhb wrote:
On October 29 2026 21:35 LightSpectra wrote:
Please continue embarrassing yourself, it saves me a lot of effort of debunking real arguments.
Anytime you want to take up those questions from my post, or maybe actually mention Abbas when it comes to Palestinians voting and how that might differ, I'm all ears. I have an idea. Maybe Israel should start running West Bank elections so that you can notice and comment and condemn them. They seem to be a lot better at holding elections than their neighbors, although the factional parliamentary coalitions are still abysmal.


I don’t take the apartheid libel too seriously. Like, obviously Israel isn’t practicing a system of racial oppression when it’s repeatedly demonstrated that Arab citizens of Israel have full equal rights - this latest election just being one example.

If people want to have a rational discussion about the occupation and settler violence in the West Bank that discussion can be had. Bandying around the apartheid and genocide libels is just bad-faith attempts to redefine language to paint Israel in the worst possible light.


As you know because you are sentient, the Apartheid accusation is applied to Palestinians living in Palestine. You pointing at another population and going "Well obvious they aren't living under Apartheid" is not very impactful. We were already aware.


As you know, because hopefully you paid attention in school, apartheid was a system of racial domination and oppression.

Please run me through the logic that, on the one hand, Israel is practicing apartheid on Palestinians in the WB because they are Arab Palestinians, but on the other, they provide full equal rights to a population that is racially and religiously identical? Does that really make sense to you?


We came to the same point the last time we engaged, before you decided to ignore further contact and come back two weeks later pretending nothing happened (as usual).

The thing that is bad about Apartheid is not that it's based on race. It's the oppression of a group of people based on their identity. If you define the identity of the people oppressed differently, you haven't solved any of the inherent issues with Apartheid.

That's why I asked you what you believed was wrong with racism earlier. Race is not the issue. Oppression is.


I don’t respond to questions posed in bad faith.

Again, apartheid was a system of racial oppression and segregation. Based explicitly on race and more accurately white supremacist ideology.

If you say race is not the issue here, then by definition it is not apartheid. Words have meanings.


All right, cool. We're going to limit the word Apartheid to race, and we're going to make up a new word, Bpartheid, to describe the exact same conditions as Apartheid but the victims are chosen based on where they're born rather than race. It is now a mistake to say that the people who engage in Bpartheid engage in Apartheid.

Now, you said that it was libel to say that the people who do Bpartheid do Apartheid. This means that Apartheid is worse than Bpartheid, of course, otherwise it wouldn't be libel. If you call someone a reporter, but actually they're a journalist, you're not doing libel, you're just incorrect.

Please explain to us why doing Apartheid is worse than doing Bpartheid.
No will to live, no wish to die
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1887 Posts
21 hours ago
#11159
Here is a Harvard Law School International Human Rights Clinic & Addameer report, specific quote:

Palestinians and Jewish Israelis constitute distinct racial groups for purposes of the apartheid
definition under international law.26 The understanding of the term “racial group” in international
law has evolved away from the traditional category of “race” to encompass broader group
identification which may form the basis of discrimination. In the absence of a clear definition of the
term in both the Apartheid Convention and the Rome Statute, the jurisprudence of international
tribunals and international human rights law can be used to clarify the term.


So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States850 Posts
21 hours ago
#11160
An advocacy clinic advocates for a change in the commonly understood meanings of words to suit their organizations goals and the beliefs of its authors. In this case, teaming up with Addameer, a US-sanctioned Palestinian organization accused of ties to terrorist org PFLP. It’s tantamount to being surprised at the legal position taken by the Firearms Policy Coalition on a Supreme Court second amendment case. AIPAC also does policy advocacy and funds think tank research, and you’ll be shocked to discover their results.
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