Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 530

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.

Nebuchad

Switzerland12524 Posts

10 hours ago

#10581

On September 01 2026 09:32 dyhb wrote:
Yes, I literally just said that. You don't have representative studies to back up the opinion "the vast majority of academics," so you're busy guessing in the void.

So can we move on now, or would you like a few more rounds of reaffirming that you believe your unfounded claim even though all of the internet resources available to you point against it?

dyhb

United States666 Posts

10 hours ago

#10582

On September 01 2026 09:59 Nebuchad wrote:

Show nested quote +

So can we move on now, or would you like a few more rounds of reaffirming that you believe your unfounded claim even though all of the internet resources available to you point against it?

You made a positive claim about the vast majority of academics. I said:

On August 29 2026 08:49 dyhb wrote:

Show nested quote +

I won’t take the nature of what Google displays to you as a good structure for debate. If you refer to something like the results specifying the IAGS study, then count me sympathetic to the ~70% that didn’t vote.

I was reading the nature of the claims when this news story surfaced and resurfaced in 2023-2025. Amnesty International altered its definition to pursue the assignment. Scholarly surveys had a lack of original research. The activist anti-Israel groups leveled claims that were simply cited and repeated. Reliance on poor sources results in poor value. Those are what popped up to me when I examined the why and how of various surveys (as well as aforementioned poor participation.) I don’t think the research is sufficiently developed either to the claim, or to the reason behind the poor state of academic treatment of the subject. Maybe in 5-10 years I’ll know more beyond the obvious bias and activism and rush to judgment.

On August 29 2026 09:26 dyhb wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 29 2026 09:00 Nebuchad wrote:

On August 29 2026 08:49 dyhb wrote:

On August 29 2026 07:13 Nebuchad wrote:

On August 29 2026 06:22 dyhb wrote:

On August 29 2026 05:49 Nebuchad wrote:

On August 29 2026 03:44 dyhb wrote:

On August 29 2026 03:18 WombaT wrote:
Nah it’s just totally grand to kill tens of thousands of civilians, nothing to see here…

Because people can’t say “it’s not grand” without the compulsion to say “it’s genocide,” apparently. I hate to break it to you about war, but they are generally not “totally grand.”

Glad we were able to confirm in this post that you're denying the idea that it's genocide in general, and not specifically to criticize Jankisa's ukrainian analogy. So, with that in mind, any opinion on why the vast majority of genocide scholars and a bunch of human rights organizations and United Nations representatives agree with WombaT and not you?

What survey or analysis are you referring to? I’ve seen specific cases that appear to be motivated by bias and activism. For instance, the divorce in Amnesty International’s Israel chapter, and altering the definition of genocide among some groups. There’s longer articles of criticism if you’re interested.

I'm refering to a site called google.com where I prompt searches like "opinion of genocide scholars on Gaza" and I get a pretty clear picture of where those opinions lean in return.

Here are some examples:

https://twailr.com/public-statement-scholars-warn-of-potential-genocide-in-gaza/
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/top-genocide-scholars-unanimous-israel-committing-genocide-gaza-investigation-finds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_and_legal_responses_to_the_Gaza_genocide

What are you refering to?

I won’t take the nature of what Google displays to you as a good structure for debate. If you refer to something like the results specifying the IAGS study, then count me sympathetic to the ~70% that didn’t vote.

I was reading the nature of the claims when this news story surfaced and resurfaced in 2023-2025. Amnesty International altered its definition to pursue the assignment. Scholarly surveys had a lack of original research. The activist anti-Israel groups leveled claims that were simply cited and repeated. Reliance on poor sources results in poor value. Those are what popped up to me when I examined the why and how of various surveys (as well as aforementioned poor participation.) I don’t think the research is sufficiently developed either to the claim, or to the reason behind the poor state of academic treatment of the subject. Maybe in 5-10 years I’ll know more beyond the obvious bias and activism and rush to judgment.

Is there something somewhere that leads you to believe that most genocide scholars do not think it's genocide? And if yes, why is that thing in your mind a stronger agregate, and a better structure for debate on the specific question of which way the genocide scholars lean, than Google (and the links you get from Google) is?

Let’s back up a bit. Have you read and understood my criticism of low response rate, missing original research, and over-reliance on claims made by activist organizations? I think the more important aspect is to look at the claims evidence and reasoning, rather than reduce it to some dumb aggregate poll.

I've bolded some important parts that you've repeatedly ignored, so maybe you should take this opportunity to actually give argument or comment before you move on in ignorance and refusal to answer.

Billyboy

2231 Posts

9 hours ago

#10583

The dyhb schtick is he argued your position with never taking one himself. It is not like he even believes what he is writing , he just thinks he can “win” this point. If you want to make it less painful for self in the future, just ask him his position before arguing yours. He will just stop and you won’t have to go through the disingenuous one way conversation. Or if your bored by all means, but al least you will know the “rules”.

dyhb

United States666 Posts

8 hours ago

#10584

Nebuchad can obviously give comment to the response. He's refused to do so up till now, but he always can.

Separately, I would suggest you don't ask open-ended questions on "What's your opinion on X" if you're only accepting the most extreme positions as valid answers.

PremoBeats

601 Posts

6 hours ago

#10585

On August 31 2026 15:39 Jockmcplop wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm sorry who did I attack here?

What's 'the essential part' that I left out?

And I have to laugh that you call this boring while insisting that every page of this thread contains about 20 essays going as deeply as possible into something that was 100% resolved years ago in this very thread, and was barely worthy of discussion in the first place.
You and I have very different definitions of boring.

The former was targeted at your reply, the latter at the usual conduct in this thread, not specifically you. Sorry - I didn't make that clear in my previous post.
Well, the essential part could be that it isn't about mere Palestinians dying, but rather a very special case of Palestinians.
It also isn't about the whole public watching. So you frame this piece in its most extreme way… you sensationalize. And this happens so often around here. Exaggerations, omitting… isn’t it bad enough that these things are being brought into existence? Do you need to leave out that it is only for death row terrorists and that only the families of the victims are able to watch?

Resolved? You think the genocide question has been resolved? And of all places in this cess pool of a thread? Now that is hubris of the highest order

On August 31 2026 15:52 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:

Show nested quote +

Arguably Israel is trying to destroy Palestinians as a national group (not letting them exist or develop as a country) by inflicting destructive life conditions and serious harm.
With an end goal of annexation of all or parts of Palestinian territory, establishment of Israeli hegemony and making it impossible to form a Palestinian nation.

It's not that far fetched even if the Palestinian people and would be state mostly exist as a reaction to the formation of Israel.

Israel has offered a two-state-solution several times. But they are obviously not keen to let a state develop that denies their right to exist and is bent on their destruction, which is kind of understandable, especially after 3 years ago.
I think your reply is a much more serious argument than simply pointing at death tolls or atrocities. But you're changing the meaning of "destroy" halfway through the argument. If by destroy you mean prevent Palestinian statehood, permanently displace Palestinians, annex territory, or make Palestinian national self-determination impossible, then you're describing potentially very serious policies that could constitute other international crimes. If you mean "destroy" in the Genocide Convention sense, however, you still have to establish an intent to physically destroy Palestinians as a national group, in whole or in substantial part. The fact that Israel might want to prevent the emergence of a Palestinian state does not logically establish that it wants to physically destroy the Palestinians themselves, although the question would be, what to do with the Palestinians if said state is established.

On August 31 2026 16:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
2: I DO think there was some genocidal intent coming loudly from certain parts of the Israeli government, including Netenyahu. I don't have the energy to go researching quotes but I'm 100% sure we've all seen them already.

I remember someone throwing a page at me with about 50 - 100 quotes. After having looked through the first 10 I stopped, as literally all of them were taken out of context and / or directly about Hamas.

On August 31 2026 16:16 Nebuchad wrote:
The reason why the discussion goes nowhere is because Premo and dyhb are not honest actors in the debate, not because we're getting lost. If we didn't get lost on this, we'd get lost on something else.

You calling others dishonest actors. Some jokes truly write themselves…

Remind me: Did you contribute anything despite unfounded accusations or the assertion that a 72% attendance poll and articles written bei 7 or 8 authors represent the “vast majority of genocide scholars” (btw, how much overlap is there between the two... I am too lazy to check)?
Inability or willful deceit… it truly doesn’t matter in the end.

Just a last rant: I seriously don’t understand how THE central legal question of this conflict is uninteresting to some of you… we have the most observed conflict of all time with the accusation of the gravest legal offense a state or person can commit.
But don’t mind me; I’ll leave you all to what you did before. A back and forth which started because of a questionable comparison of Gaza and Ukraine and the accusation “genocide-defender” because the nature of the questionable comparison was highlighted.
Wow, so much fun.

Nebuchad

Switzerland12524 Posts

1 hour ago

#10586

On September 01 2026 11:01 Billyboy wrote:
The dyhb schtick is he argued your position with never taking one himself. It is not like he even believes what he is writing , he just thinks he can “win” this point. If you want to make it less painful for self in the future, just ask him his position before arguing yours. He will just stop and you won’t have to go through the disingenuous one way conversation. Or if your bored by all means, but al least you will know the “rules”.

Yeah there's no real way of winning against people like this because they don't really care about what they're saying. I suppose GH has a point that not engaging makes sense, but I don't know, there's a part of me that feels like when we don't engage it looks like we can't engage, so I like to make it absolutely clear that they don't have a point even though the value of doing that is small

PremoBeats

601 Posts

1 hour ago

#10587

At last, we have something in common!

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