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On September 25 2018 08:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 08:40 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:34 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:24 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:12 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:
Republicans will campaign on not giving in to 11th hour smear tactics from the left. Ford will get her hearing on Thursday, should she decide to show up. She can present her best case that despite all the evidence against, she actually was at a party and had these witnesses that all denied it afterward, and Kavanaugh did this alleged thing.
It’s like people haven’t learned a thing since Duke Lacrosse and Rolling Stone. Evangelicals do well to wait out her testimony and have a defense and later a vote. Justice demands it. Just keep evoking that Lacrosse team like some talisman that proves all allegations false going forward. It’s a useful check on just citing allegations as if they were fact. That is being done here, repeatedly. Innocent men suffer and justice is not served. Somehow I think Kavanaugh will get through this unscathed, even if all the allegations are true. Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. I think if anyone has proof, corroborating witnesses, and evidence, that will come out in the end. Justice isn’t served by believing all accusers just because the accused is a rich white men, and you think they get away with everything, and insult people defending them. I want justice for all skin colors, not just non-white non-rich skin colors, and frankly I’m saddened to hear “but it’s nice they have you to defend them.” I hope you have friends if you’re ever falsely accused, even if you’re rich and white. I’ve never really been that interested in your performance of faux sadness and faux interest in justice. And I’m firmly middle class, no one gunna mistake me or my wife for being rich. Im noting that you wouldn’t make sarcastic comments if I had defended a black man against such accusations. It’s the fact that he’s well off and white that you choose scorn. It’s troubling that certain racist and class warfare views are just a big joke to you. Only when discussing them with ridiculous people.
Because that excuse would totally fly with you if the roles were reversed...
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On September 25 2018 08:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 08:34 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:24 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:12 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:
Republicans will campaign on not giving in to 11th hour smear tactics from the left. Ford will get her hearing on Thursday, should she decide to show up. She can present her best case that despite all the evidence against, she actually was at a party and had these witnesses that all denied it afterward, and Kavanaugh did this alleged thing.
It’s like people haven’t learned a thing since Duke Lacrosse and Rolling Stone. Evangelicals do well to wait out her testimony and have a defense and later a vote. Justice demands it. Just keep evoking that Lacrosse team like some talisman that proves all allegations false going forward. p It’s a useful check on just citing allegations as if they were fact. That is being done here, repeatedly. Innocent men suffer and justice is not served. Somehow I think Kavanaugh will get through this unscathed, even if all the allegations are true. Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. I think if anyone has proof, corroborating witnesses, and evidence, that will come out in the end. Justice isn’t served by believing all accusers just because the accused is a rich white men, and you think they get away with everything, and insult people defending them. I want justice for all skin colors, not just non-white non-rich skin colors, and frankly I’m saddened to hear “but it’s nice they have you to defend them.” I hope you have friends if you’re ever falsely accused, even if you’re rich and white. I’ve never really been that interested in your performance of faux sadness and faux interest in justice. And I’m firmly middle class, no one gunna mistake me or my wife for being rich. Im noting that you wouldn’t make sarcastic comments if I had defended a black man against such accusations. It’s the fact that he’s well off and white that you choose scorn. It’s troubling that certain racist and class warfare views are just a big joke to you.
I'm sorry, but are we living in some bizarro world where rich white men and black men are treated equally on issues like this? The rich white elites are circling the wagons in part because he is one of them and they are the ones in power, not black men.
I'll be interested to see your take when no investigation takes place other than the hearing. I hope some calendars from high school aren't enough to make you throw out this woman's testimony like it certainly will for some conservatives.
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On September 25 2018 08:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 08:34 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:24 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:12 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:
Republicans will campaign on not giving in to 11th hour smear tactics from the left. Ford will get her hearing on Thursday, should she decide to show up. She can present her best case that despite all the evidence against, she actually was at a party and had these witnesses that all denied it afterward, and Kavanaugh did this alleged thing.
It’s like people haven’t learned a thing since Duke Lacrosse and Rolling Stone. Evangelicals do well to wait out her testimony and have a defense and later a vote. Justice demands it. Just keep evoking that Lacrosse team like some talisman that proves all allegations false going forward. It’s a useful check on just citing allegations as if they were fact. That is being done here, repeatedly. Innocent men suffer and justice is not served. Somehow I think Kavanaugh will get through this unscathed, even if all the allegations are true. Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. I think if anyone has proof, corroborating witnesses, and evidence, that will come out in the end. Justice isn’t served by believing all accusers just because the accused is a rich white men, and you think they get away with everything, and insult people defending them. I want justice for all skin colors, not just non-white non-rich skin colors, and frankly I’m saddened to hear “but it’s nice they have you to defend them.” I hope you have friends if you’re ever falsely accused, even if you’re rich and white. I’ve never really been that interested in your performance of faux sadness and faux interest in justice. And I’m firmly middle class, no one gunna mistake me or my wife for being rich. Im noting that you wouldn’t make sarcastic comments if I had defended a black man against such accusations. It’s the fact that he’s well off and white that you choose scorn. It’s troubling that certain racist and class warfare views are just a big joke to you.
I honestly can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith or if you truly believe that. Hell, maybe you're being ironic to prove/ mock(?) P6's point or something.
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On September 25 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 08:12 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:
Republicans will campaign on not giving in to 11th hour smear tactics from the left. Ford will get her hearing on Thursday, should she decide to show up. She can present her best case that despite all the evidence against, she actually was at a party and had these witnesses that all denied it afterward, and Kavanaugh did this alleged thing.
It’s like people haven’t learned a thing since Duke Lacrosse and Rolling Stone. Evangelicals do well to wait out her testimony and have a defense and later a vote. Justice demands it. Just keep evoking that Lacrosse team like some talisman that proves all allegations false going forward. It’s a useful check on just citing allegations as if they were fact. That is being done here, repeatedly. Innocent men suffer and justice is not served.
I'd be careful if i were you.
While you're partially correct because you state that justice needs to be served either way, you look really stupid using arguments like this. Let me ask you this: do you go out of the house when it rains and thunders? Very rarely people get hit by lightning, so if we go by your argument, you absolutely should not.
Because here's the thing. While you argue that statements supporting Ramirez were debunked/retracted, you seem to have missed that supporting statements of Kavanaugh (that contradicted Ramirez' statement initially) were retracted too.
You argue like it's set in stone that he's innocent, and the woman is smearing him. That will rub people wrong, rightfully so. Because while you cite one of the very few occasions where accusations were wrong, the overwhelming majority of allegations in the last year or two were in fact true.
It's like arguing that it's a given that if you go out in a thunderstorm, there's a 50/50 chance that you get hit by lightning. That's not the case.
While you're right that he's innocent until proven otherwise, Ramirez still is a victim until proven otherwise. Sounds paradoxical, but in fact it's really easy. You don't call Kavanaugh a rapist, you don't call Ramirez an actress/liar.
Isn't that hard, is it?
I honestly can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith or if you truly believe that. Hell, maybe you're being ironic to prove/ mock(?) P6's point or something.
He's trolling.
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[B]On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need.
Lol ok.
They tried exactly the same thing with Clarence Thomas.
Justice was served there i suppose?
I’m expecting Kavanaugh to be confirmed by the end of the week.
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On September 25 2018 08:44 PeTraSoHot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 08:44 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:40 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:34 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:24 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:15 Danglars wrote:On September 25 2018 08:12 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:
Republicans will campaign on not giving in to 11th hour smear tactics from the left. Ford will get her hearing on Thursday, should she decide to show up. She can present her best case that despite all the evidence against, she actually was at a party and had these witnesses that all denied it afterward, and Kavanaugh did this alleged thing.
It’s like people haven’t learned a thing since Duke Lacrosse and Rolling Stone. Evangelicals do well to wait out her testimony and have a defense and later a vote. Justice demands it. Just keep evoking that Lacrosse team like some talisman that proves all allegations false going forward. It’s a useful check on just citing allegations as if they were fact. That is being done here, repeatedly. Innocent men suffer and justice is not served. Somehow I think Kavanaugh will get through this unscathed, even if all the allegations are true. Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. I think if anyone has proof, corroborating witnesses, and evidence, that will come out in the end. Justice isn’t served by believing all accusers just because the accused is a rich white men, and you think they get away with everything, and insult people defending them. I want justice for all skin colors, not just non-white non-rich skin colors, and frankly I’m saddened to hear “but it’s nice they have you to defend them.” I hope you have friends if you’re ever falsely accused, even if you’re rich and white. I’ve never really been that interested in your performance of faux sadness and faux interest in justice. And I’m firmly middle class, no one gunna mistake me or my wife for being rich. Im noting that you wouldn’t make sarcastic comments if I had defended a black man against such accusations. It’s the fact that he’s well off and white that you choose scorn. It’s troubling that certain racist and class warfare views are just a big joke to you. Only when discussing them with ridiculous people. Because that excuse would totally fly with you if the roles were reversed...
Pretty sure I believed the accusations against Bill Cosby too. And the accusations against priests in the Catholic Church too. The victims of these crimes have enough problems, so I take them at their word.
On September 25 2018 09:10 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. Lol ok. They tried exactly the same thing with Clarence Thomas. Justice was served there i suppose? I’m expecting Kavanaugh to be confirmed by the end of the week.
Um....There is no vote to move this out of committee this week, so you expecting the impossible.
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On September 25 2018 09:10 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On September 25 2018 08:18 Plansix wrote:Because justice isn’t served on rich white men either. But it’s nice they have you to defend them in their out of need. Lol ok. They tried exactly the same thing with Clarence Thomas. Justice was served there i suppose? I’m expecting Kavanaugh to be confirmed by the end of the week.
He almost certainly will be. I don't think many people doubt it.
The interesting thing at this point is the potential consequences. It seems women are getting really fucking pissed off at this administration, and that's the sort of thing that does few favours for the Republican cause.
I'm not sure whether the allegations are true or not; it's unprovable due to the length of time that's passed and memories are fuzzy enough that even finding full corroborations will be hard, but one thing that's inarguable is that the administration and the Republican machine in general has handled this with all the elegance of a hippopotamus on roller skates trying to perform the river dance on an ice rink.
And evangelicals are sacrificing whatever pathetic claim they had left to anything approaching a moral stance on anything by pushing for this confirmation right now. It's like Trump corrupts and destroys everything in the vaguest of his periphery. Like Danglars said, there's enough smoke that you need to slow down and let things take their course.
Rushing just makes things look even worse. If Congress isn't kind of careful on Thursday it's going to play AWFULLY for them. Nothing going to get women even more pissed off than a room of unsympathetic rich white men grilling a (probable) abuse victim in the style we saw with James Comey. This is not a time for senators to start trying to make grandstand denouncements.
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So it’s Tuesday.They want the hearing on Thursday.
Ford refuses to fly so has she started driving from CA to DC yet? If not it’s not possible for her to be there in time.
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On September 25 2018 13:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
So it’s Tuesday.They want the hearing on Thursday.
Ford refuses to fly so has she started driving from CA to DC yet? If not it’s not possible for her to be there in time.
refuses to fly..?
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On September 25 2018 13:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
So it’s Tuesday.They want the hearing on Thursday.
Ford refuses to fly so has she started driving from CA to DC yet? If not it’s not possible for her to be there in time.
google says 40 hours so pretty sure its still possible if they left in the next 8-12 hours or so
You can switch drivers, my family has done California to Kentucky a few times like that when I was younger, no stops except for gas and restrooms. I don't really recommend it though.
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I've driven the whole country, and I've gone to NY and back in a weekend from FL. Not that hard to get from Cali to DC in a couple of days if you really wanted too. If anything they probably got her a private jet... Who knows.
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On September 25 2018 13:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Ford refuses to fly so has she started driving from CA to DC yet? If not it’s not possible for her to be there in time.
Yes, this was quite surprising. Most people are reporting it as a ruse to delay things.
I am available to speak further should you wish to discuss. I am currently vacationing in the mid-Atlantic until August 7th and will be in California after August 10th.
In confidence,
Christine Blasey
Pala Alto, California
There's no word yet if the vacation mentioned in the letter (during which she offered to meet Feinstein) was also undertaken by car instead of flying. California to mid-Atlantic twice by car if so.
And this already went from if she makes it there Thursday, to if she chooses to testify Thursday. The prior offers from Senate Republicans included flying staffers out there to conduct investigations and take testimony. That one was declined. The new one is refusing to have outside counsel ask the questions.
Some pundits have already called for Senators to just hold the vote Thursday if she refuses to testify before a hired lawyer. Incidentally, whoever had "Ford will never testify" in the pool is looking better and better as time goes on.
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already answered. I know better by now then try to get too involved when people compare giving the slightest shadow of a doubt on an accuser to being a supporter of pedophilia.
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I almost hope they bullishly push kevinaugh through despite all the accusations and show the world just how few fucks they give about anything but the corporations who hold their leashes. The damage of having him on the supreme court might be undone by impeaching him in light of such accusations, or simply a democrat president saying enough is enough and stacking the supreme court to undo the damage this clown show has done. But I'm not sure if the republican party can recover from the damage that getting this guy through would cause.
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On September 25 2018 14:29 hunts wrote:
I almost hope they bullishly push kevinaugh through despite all the accusations and show the world just how few fucks they give about anything but the corporations who hold their leashes. The damage of having him on the supreme court might be undone by impeaching him in light of such accusations, or simply a democrat president saying enough is enough and stacking the supreme court to undo the damage this clown show has done. But I'm not sure if the republican party can recover from the damage that getting this guy through would cause.
So this is actually the best of all possible outcomes for Democratic policy goals. If Kavanaugh gets dumped, they can always 51 vote a lame duck Federalist Society clone in December who doesn't have a rapey past. There has to be at least one. But Justice KAVANAUGH is impeachment bait and a great get out the vote driver in 2018/2020. I could see KAVANAUGH being the first impeached justice in a Democratic senate. Why not put some investigatory resources into seeing whether he lied during his hearings? Dems have nothing to lose by asking and everything to gain.
EDIT: also, justice KAVANAUGH is a realistic threat on THOMAS. If KAV goes down for lying about his rapey past, THOMAS should be next for all the perjury he did over Anita Hill.
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On September 25 2018 14:06 Sermokala wrote:
already answered. I know better by now then try to get too involved when people compare giving the slightest shadow of a doubt on an accuser to being a supporter of pedophilia.
We are on the same page now that Obama in fact nominated Garland for the Supreme Court, right? (As per this post).
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On September 25 2018 15:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 14:29 hunts wrote:
I almost hope they bullishly push kevinaugh through despite all the accusations and show the world just how few fucks they give about anything but the corporations who hold their leashes. The damage of having him on the supreme court might be undone by impeaching him in light of such accusations, or simply a democrat president saying enough is enough and stacking the supreme court to undo the damage this clown show has done. But I'm not sure if the republican party can recover from the damage that getting this guy through would cause. So this is actually the best of all possible outcomes for Democratic policy goals. If Kavanaugh gets dumped, they can always 51 vote a lame duck Federalist Society clone in December who doesn't have a rapey past. There has to be at least one. But Justice KAVANAUGH is impeachment bait and a great get out the vote driver in 2018/2020. I could see KAVANAUGH being the first impeached justice in a Democratic senate. Why not put some investigatory resources into seeing whether he lied during his hearings? Dems have nothing to lose by asking and everything to gain. EDIT: also, justice KAVANAUGH is a realistic threat on THOMAS. If KAV goes down for lying about his rapey past, THOMAS should be next for all the perjury he did over Anita Hill.
I was thinking this as well: somehow let Kavanaugh get on the court, but then campaign on removing him and Thomas from the court in 2020. But that’s a bit tactical and I don’t think it’s advisable because it’s not in the Dem’s nature to coordinate like that.
Also, there was a statement posted by K’s Yale room mate about the allegations. It contributes to the picture of K as an obnoxious frat boy who is at least capable of such assaults.
www.twitter.com/PeterKauffmann/status/1044384650767020033/photo/1
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On September 25 2018 15:41 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2018 14:29 hunts wrote:
I almost hope they bullishly push kevinaugh through despite all the accusations and show the world just how few fucks they give about anything but the corporations who hold their leashes. The damage of having him on the supreme court might be undone by impeaching him in light of such accusations, or simply a democrat president saying enough is enough and stacking the supreme court to undo the damage this clown show has done. But I'm not sure if the republican party can recover from the damage that getting this guy through would cause. So this is actually the best of all possible outcomes for Democratic policy goals. If Kavanaugh gets dumped, they can always 51 vote a lame duck Federalist Society clone in December who doesn't have a rapey past. There has to be at least one. But Justice KAVANAUGH is impeachment bait and a great get out the vote driver in 2018/2020. I could see KAVANAUGH being the first impeached justice in a Democratic senate. Why not put some investigatory resources into seeing whether he lied during his hearings? Dems have nothing to lose by asking and everything to gain. EDIT: also, justice KAVANAUGH is a realistic threat on THOMAS. If KAV goes down for lying about his rapey past, THOMAS should be next for all the perjury he did over Anita Hill.
This seems very risky or no? When was last time politics "messed" with the surpreme court by removing a judge or adding additional judges. Arent surpreme court justices seen like "gods" in the usa,untouchable. Removing a judge will feel like an attack on the constitution directly for many americans (even though it isn't off course). I don't think democrats would ever do this,it seems way to risky and also create a precedent. And if kavanaugh is rejected,the republicans wont nominate a lame duck next,they will go for a similar conservative judge.
If they want stop kavanaugh they have to do it before he is sworn in,after is to late.
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There is no way they are even going to discuss removing Thomas. That is wild speculation.
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On September 25 2018 23:04 Plansix wrote:
There is no way they are even going to discuss removing Thomas. That is wild speculation.
It’s also about having leverage for reforms such as term limits and so on. Take the following example: demand 12 year term limits, demand the resignation of every judge who is been on the court for longer than 12 years, threaten to impeach Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, threaten to pack the court. All in order to destroy the current rightwing activist court that could e.g. easily undo medicare for all as freedom destroying government coercion, or could destroy labor rights etc.
I don’t know if it works, of course, but these are the sort of tactics Dems should consider.
Similarly, they should make Washington and PR a state, undo gerrymandering, have a national voting holiday, restore felon voting rights. If they were genuinely interested in gaining power that’s what they would do.
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EPT
