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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5906

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States607 Posts
1 hour ago
#118101
On August 12 2026 18:25 Jankisa wrote:
Also, dhyb complaining about purity testing while he moves goalposts form "he's not allowed to like a streamer"
If you invite a streamer that says provocative things to campaign with you, be prepared to issue repudiations.

"he's not allowed to oppose financing Israel's military"
Saying there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons is stupid.

Like I told you earlier, trying to dumb down your opponent's arguments communicates that you have little confidence in your own.

And when my original post includes two objections, it isn't moving the goalposts to restate both objections. I even linked that post in my post, just in case anyone forgot!
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1614 Posts
1 hour ago
#118102
On August 12 2026 21:18 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 20:58 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 20:24 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism, but you, dyhb, LS, and others are helping to illustrating that part.
Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.

Why do you believe that Croatians, rather than US citizens, are more likely to be fascist?


Why dont ask Jankisa this question? he was the one who implied that nationality is deciding factor.

On August 12 2026 11:56 WombaT wrote:
On August 12 2026 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
[quote]Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.

Why do you believe that Croatians, rather than US citizens, are more likely to be fascist?

Even if that were the case, Jankisa is evidently not a Fascist unless all their posting is entirely non-reflective of their views

A staggeringly stupid tangent


I agree it is stupid. Thats why I contested.

Edit:

On August 12 2026 18:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism, but you, dyhb, LS, and others are helping to illustrating that part.
Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.


I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand, but my point of calling people (like you) fascist for supporting fascist policies has nothing to do with the ability to vote for them.

Your ability to vote for fascists (I'm sure you are itching to cast your vote for Restore Britain) is a bonus when it comes to calling you a fascist, but it's not a requirement.


"I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand, but my point of calling people (like you) fascist for supporting fascist policies has nothing to do with the ability to vote for them." - Except thats not what I contested, but hey, I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand.

Bolded - you know how cool it is to have opinion about something you have clue about? You should try it some day.


I have been reading your occasional fascistic screeching enough to know that you are absolutely the type of person who was waiting for a real, proper fascist to come along so you can cast your vote for them.

After all, you are the brilliant mind behind "anyone advocating for taxing wealth should be killed".

Also, love the 3rd grade "I am rubber you are glue" debate energy, really shows off your maturity!


Bolded - are you, like, taking pleasure in displaying your ignorance?

Italic - not exactly what I said. I also stand by for what I actually said there.

As for 3rd grade debate energy: Are you going to admit that I am right, and saying that: "Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism." was plain stupid? Or are you going to keep calling people fascists?



You seem pretty bad at understanding context, so let me try to help you:

On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism, but you, dyhb, LS, and others are helping to illustrating that part.
Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.

Given that you aren't even able to say that you'd vote against republicans in a key Senate state that might help push it back, plus, you know, your propensity to justify murder of kids, support for genocide, wars of aggression etc., I'd say you score like 8/10 on the "fascist enabler" scale.


This is the context of that sentence.

Considering that in the year of 2026, in the context of voting (or saying that you'd vote) for people who might help stop Trump's movement when elected to the Senate, I am pretty safe as being a propagator of fascism.

I don't understand what other point you are trying to argue, are you not currently living in UK? From what I remember you are an immigrant who hates other immigrants, or did I get that wrong?

That plus your general "kill socialists" attitude would make me believe you are a fascist who would love to be represented by actual fascists. Apologies if I got some of that wrong.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3020 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-12 14:25:55
1 hour ago
#118103
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later is when Obama gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

El-Sayed thinks there's not a difference between offensive and defensive weapons, but do you think there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons? You can wish to end all of it or some of it while acknowledging a difference. Democrats disagree on this.


AIPAC doesn't seem to think there's a difference because they keep trying to primary people who support the Iron Dome but not weapons to Israel.

As to "whether there's a difference," there really isn't one from a financial standpoint. If we cut funding for the Dome then Israel has to pay for it out of their own pockets which means they have less money to bomb hospitals and orphanages.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46268 Posts
1 hour ago
#118104
On August 12 2026 20:24 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism, but you, dyhb, LS, and others are helping to illustrating that part.
Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.

Why do you believe that Croatians, rather than US citizens, are more likely to be fascist?


Why dont ask Jankisa this question? he was the one who implied that nationality is deciding factor.

I asked you because you wrote it. If you don't want to defend your statement, then that's fine; it would be just like how oBlade refuses to defend their statement that Biden is a bigger criminal than Trump.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1614 Posts
1 hour ago
#118105
On August 12 2026 22:24 dyhb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 18:25 Jankisa wrote:
Also, dhyb complaining about purity testing while he moves goalposts form "he's not allowed to like a streamer"
If you invite a streamer that says provocative things to campaign with you, be prepared to issue repudiations.

Show nested quote +
"he's not allowed to oppose financing Israel's military"
Saying there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons is stupid.

Like I told you earlier, trying to dumb down your opponent's arguments communicates that you have little confidence in your own.

And when my original post includes two objections, it isn't moving the goalposts to restate both objections. I even linked that post in my post, just in case anyone forgot!


Just answer the question buddy, it's not that hard.

You really aren't helping your case by trying to invent new ways to not do it. It's a simple question, you refuse to answer it, you are an equivalent of an election denier.

It's not that complicated, there is no need to dumb anything down, your refusal is plenty dumb already.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12834 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-12 14:12:57
1 hour ago
#118106
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

Show nested quote +
I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Show nested quote +
Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

Show nested quote +
El-Sayed thinks there's not a difference between offensive and defensive weapons, but do you think there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons? You can wish to end all of it or some of it while acknowledging a difference. Democrats disagree on this.


AIPAC doesn't seem to think there's a difference because they keep trying to primary people who support the Iron Dome but not weapons to Israel.

As to "whether there's a difference," there really isn't one from a financial standpoint. If we cut funding for the Dome then Israel has to pay for it out of their own pockets which means they have less money to bomb hospitals and orphanages.

911 is a terror attack against America.
It's meant to kill American civilians.
There's no miscommunication that would need clarification.

Hasan is a terrorist sympathiser and that's it.

He's happy shilling for China and how good it is even when he literally got questioned by police just for doing a live broadcast in tiannmen square.
He'd happy to take down the great evil USA, as an hardcore anti Zionist.

Decades ago there's an active patriotic effort to attack Isis recruitment effort, even the anonymous group. nowadays these people get platformed and treating the US more like an enemy state.
And well they also get the gen z support somehow, the pro lgbtq pro Iran crowd.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3020 Posts
1 hour ago
#118107
"When I aid victims of terrorism, they call me a saint. When I ask why the terrorists are attacking us, they call me a sympathizer."
- Helder Camara (a lil' paraphrased)
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6384 Posts
1 hour ago
#118108
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

Show nested quote +
I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Show nested quote +
Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

Explain to me how Hasan is right that America deserved 9/11 in terms of what exactly the thing is that the abstract "America" deserves. You covered the why - the US recklessly sold weapons to the Taliban who harbored Al Qaeda who blew up the WTC. Explain the "what" of the deserts more.

Because there's no 9/11 without dead civilians.

"America" deserved a bunch of its civilians to die, but those specific civilians didn't deserve it themselves? This is the line? Take all the time to elaborate this contemporary leftist 9/11 view as you need. I'm listening.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12834 Posts
56 minutes ago
#118109
On August 12 2026 23:13 LightSpectra wrote:
"When I aid victims of terrorism, they call me a saint. When I ask why the terrorists are attacking us, they call me a sympathizer."
- Helder Camara (a lil' paraphrased)

Why is there war? Why is there crime? Why is there hunger?
Why? - Plato *probably
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3020 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-12 14:21:59
56 minutes ago
#118110
On August 12 2026 23:17 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

Explain to me how Hasan is right that America deserved 9/11 in terms of what exactly the thing is that the abstract "America" deserves. You covered the why - the US recklessly sold weapons to the Taliban who harbored Al Qaeda who blew up the WTC. Explain the "what" of the deserts more.

Because there's no 9/11 without dead civilians.

"America" deserved a bunch of its civilians to die, but those specific civilians didn't deserve it themselves? This is the line? Take all the time to elaborate this contemporary leftist 9/11 view as you need. I'm listening.



Try reading the sentences after "Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification".
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44232 Posts
54 minutes ago
#118111
On August 12 2026 23:17 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

Explain to me how Hasan is right that America deserved 9/11 in terms of what exactly the thing is that the abstract "America" deserves. You covered the why - the US recklessly sold weapons to the Taliban who harbored Al Qaeda who blew up the WTC. Explain the "what" of the deserts more.

Because there's no 9/11 without dead civilians.

"America" deserved a bunch of its civilians to die, but those specific civilians didn't deserve it themselves? This is the line? Take all the time to elaborate this contemporary leftist 9/11 view as you need. I'm listening.

I don’t think it’s all that complicated but I understand why you might struggle with it anyway. In any case, you’re lying. You’re not listening.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6384 Posts
50 minutes ago
#118112
On August 12 2026 23:21 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 23:17 oBlade wrote:
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
[quote]"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.

I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?

Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.

Explain to me how Hasan is right that America deserved 9/11 in terms of what exactly the thing is that the abstract "America" deserves. You covered the why - the US recklessly sold weapons to the Taliban who harbored Al Qaeda who blew up the WTC. Explain the "what" of the deserts more.

Because there's no 9/11 without dead civilians.

"America" deserved a bunch of its civilians to die, but those specific civilians didn't deserve it themselves? This is the line? Take all the time to elaborate this contemporary leftist 9/11 view as you need. I'm listening.



Try reading the sentences after "Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification".

I read every word. You don't touch on the nature of WHAT IS DESERVED.

Hasan (clarification): America deserves 9/11
Starcraft forum poster: Hasan is correct.

Define 9/11. The predicate. Define the desert. I gave you an option which was my best faith interpretation, which you could give an easy thumbs up or down to: "America" deserved a bunch of its civilians to die, but those specific civilians didn't deserve it themselves. Yes, no, or half?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Razyda
Profile Joined March 2013
1058 Posts
40 minutes ago
#118113
On August 12 2026 22:24 Jankisa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 21:18 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 20:58 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 20:24 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
[quote]Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.

Why do you believe that Croatians, rather than US citizens, are more likely to be fascist?


Why dont ask Jankisa this question? he was the one who implied that nationality is deciding factor.

On August 12 2026 11:56 WombaT wrote:
On August 12 2026 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
[quote]

Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.

Why do you believe that Croatians, rather than US citizens, are more likely to be fascist?

Even if that were the case, Jankisa is evidently not a Fascist unless all their posting is entirely non-reflective of their views

A staggeringly stupid tangent


I agree it is stupid. Thats why I contested.

Edit:

On August 12 2026 18:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 08:36 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:43 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 Razyda wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
[quote]Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.



Dude you have Croatia next to your name. Your first president went rather famous: "Thank God, my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew."

That from last year only:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz60nyp3714o

""You've now got politicians in parliament screaming 'Za dom, spremni'. On the streets, kids are singing not only that song, but other songs Thompson used to sing which glorify mass crimes in World War Two," she says.

"The government is creating an atmosphere when this is a positive thing. It is creating a wave of nationalism which could explode into physical violence.""

So many K pop fans:

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/croatian-right-wing-singer-marko-perkovic-fans-perform-nazi-salute-mas-rcna217100

You are probably least safe person on this forum when it comes to being serious propagator of fascism


Haha, we are doing collective guilt now buddy?

Since I'm 18 I voted in every election and never voted for any of these people.

There are posts in my post history (feel free to search for it) calling HDZ (the party in power / Tuđman party) criminal organization and laying out the whole history of their existence and corruption, there are also posts calling Thompson a nazi fuck and shitting all over him.

I got beaten up for shitting on Ustaše and Thompson and Tuđman in high-school and I can still remember 1999 when people were crying on TV and me and my mom were laughing at them for being sad over the death of a war criminal and a corrupt piece of shit in Tuđman.

I'd say good try but I'd be lying, you did make me chuckle so kudos for that one old timer!


Dude you talking about collective guilt, when what you wrote is that since you are not from US, you are not fascist? I simply pointed out that being Croatian makes you more likely to be a fascist than if you were US citizen.


I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand, but my point of calling people (like you) fascist for supporting fascist policies has nothing to do with the ability to vote for them.

Your ability to vote for fascists (I'm sure you are itching to cast your vote for Restore Britain) is a bonus when it comes to calling you a fascist, but it's not a requirement.


"I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand, but my point of calling people (like you) fascist for supporting fascist policies has nothing to do with the ability to vote for them." - Except thats not what I contested, but hey, I understand it might be a bit hard for you to understand.

Bolded - you know how cool it is to have opinion about something you have clue about? You should try it some day.


I have been reading your occasional fascistic screeching enough to know that you are absolutely the type of person who was waiting for a real, proper fascist to come along so you can cast your vote for them.

After all, you are the brilliant mind behind "anyone advocating for taxing wealth should be killed".

Also, love the 3rd grade "I am rubber you are glue" debate energy, really shows off your maturity!


Bolded - are you, like, taking pleasure in displaying your ignorance?

Italic - not exactly what I said. I also stand by for what I actually said there.

As for 3rd grade debate energy: Are you going to admit that I am right, and saying that: "Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism." was plain stupid? Or are you going to keep calling people fascists?



You seem pretty bad at understanding context, so let me try to help you:

Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 02:25 Jankisa wrote:
On August 12 2026 02:14 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism, but you, dyhb, LS, and others are helping to illustrating that part.
Jankisa, myself, and LightSpectra laying the foundations, facilitating, and propagating fascism ...
Which Jankisa and LightSpectra would 100% agree with you if you would just remove their names and leave mine!


Considering that I don't live or vote in the US, I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.

Given that you aren't even able to say that you'd vote against republicans in a key Senate state that might help push it back, plus, you know, your propensity to justify murder of kids, support for genocide, wars of aggression etc., I'd say you score like 8/10 on the "fascist enabler" scale.


This is the context of that sentence.

Considering that in the year of 2026, in the context of voting (or saying that you'd vote) for people who might help stop Trump's movement when elected to the Senate, I am pretty safe as being a propagator of fascism.

I don't understand what other point you are trying to argue, are you not currently living in UK? From what I remember you are an immigrant who hates other immigrants, or did I get that wrong?

That plus your general "kill socialists" attitude would make me believe you are a fascist who would love to be represented by actual fascists. Apologies if I got some of that wrong.


Dude what are you doing? There is no context. This are two closed paragraphs. First refers to you where for some reason you seem to believe that not voting or living in US makes you "think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism." Second refers to dhyb only and doesnt mention anything about whether living or voting in the US have anything to do with it.

This however hardly surprise from someone who wrote both:

I think I'm pretty safe from being a serious propagator of fascism.
I am pretty safe as being a propagator of fascism.

Latter essentially means that you feel comfortable spreading your favourite ideology.

dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States607 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-12 14:41:13
39 minutes ago
#118114
On August 12 2026 22:38 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 06:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:45 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:32 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:11 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 05:00 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:12 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 04:07 LightSpectra wrote:
Now accuse him of pulling a Janisska-Trumper and you got him right where you want him.
"One person said gross things, another person said gross things, be consistent" is exactly how pro-Trump justified excusing the depravity and magnitude of Trump's personal character and statements compared to others.


Sure, let's bring this back up if you want to. I still don't think something an Internet streamer said years ago and already apologized for should be considered a bigger deal than something the actual candidates in the race said (in Stevens' case) or did (in Rogers' case) and didn't apologize for. But if you want to compare me to an adjudicated rapist for that, I guess I can't stop you, but I've been called worse things by better people.
It's tough to say things are different in degree when you "Hasan says gross things" "that was gross too" "that's pretty gross too" since it flattens your ability to make comparisons. That's why it was wrong when Trump supporters did it, and that's why your adoption of it was also wrong. But maybe you can see the problem now.


If you ever catch me condemning Trump because I'm deeply concerned he won't condemn an internet streamer you'll almost have a point there.
I don't care who you're defending, Trump or El-Sayed, if you flatten multiple candidates for office in a universal "gross things" "gross things" "gross things." The issue is whitewashing degrees of differences, not who you're doing it to.


Once again, you're comparing something an Internet streamer said to things the actual candidates in the race said/did. It's getting increasingly ludicrous you can't or won't see the distinction there.
When you repeated three times "gross things," did you ever notice how that removes distinctions between El-Sayed, Stevens, and Rogers? All three of them said gross things, why would you presume to talk about distinctions after having said that?

Hence, the problem I had.


I never said El-Sayed said a gross thing. I said Hasan did, and he apologized for it. This incessant "why won't [left candidate] condemn my gardener using a racial slur last week?" while the actual other candidates in the race are saying or doing significantly worse things is ridiculous.
Because he didn't invite the gardener in to campaign alongside him.

Show nested quote +
I'm happy to compare Obama and Piker:

Obama: I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit.


Maybe I'm not being clear here. This specific quote is a flat condemnation, but Obama said other things around the same time period that were less flat. March 13, 2008 is when the viral clips of Jeremiah Wright started playing on repeat on cable news. Five days later Obama is when he gave the "A More Perfect Union" speech where he said:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthens my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years."

and

"Now, some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. And I suppose the politically safe thing to do would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro in the aftermath of her recent statements as harboring some deep -- deep-seated bias. But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America: to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through, a part of our union that we have not yet made perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care or education or the need to find good jobs for every American."

Quite a bit more nuanced than "vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements", no?
You can get away with a lot of love and acceptance of the man himself if that comes alongside strong and specific condemnations of what he said. Obama met a threshhold, and El-Sayed should have done the same in the primary.

Show nested quote +
Piker: I should've used more precise and better use of the language there. It's messed up that I would even give the opportunity to the right to try to morally grandstand on an issue like this, when they are 100% responsible for all the bloodshed that’s been caused.
I didn't say Americans deserved 9/11 — I said America deserves 9/11. Maybe you can chalk it up to English being my second language or whatever you want to chalk it up to


Yeah, Hasan is right here after the clarification. The people who died on 9/11 were unfortunate, innocent victims of terrorism that the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats, etc. In fact, the extremist ideologies of Salafism and Wahhabism that terrorist groups like al-Qaeda abide by are exported across the world by the monarchy of Saudi Arabia, and the United States has supported the Saud family for a century because we need their oil and stability in the region. (Reminder that Trump is trying to get them nuclear weapons too.)

The asshole thing would be to imply (willfully or negligently) that the American civilians in the WTC had it coming to them, which is what he clarified and apologized for.
So you think El-Sayed should be asked if he agrees with "the U.S. government invited by its own reckless foreign policy of selling weapons to extremist groups, causing or supporting numerous coup d'etats" 9/11?

I say we have that debate. Preferably in a primary, but at least prior to an election.

Show nested quote +
El-Sayed thinks there's not a difference between offensive and defensive weapons, but do you think there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons? You can wish to end all of it or some of it while acknowledging a difference. Democrats disagree on this.


AIPAC doesn't seem to think there's a difference because they keep trying to primary people who support the Iron Dome but not weapons to Israel.

As to "whether there's a difference," there really isn't one from a financial standpoint. If we cut funding for the Dome then Israel has to pay for it out of their own pockets which means they have less money to bomb hospitals and orphanages.
Though I disagree with you on which policy is wise, you are right that money is fungible. It would still be a cut.

On August 12 2026 23:00 Jankisa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2026 22:24 dyhb wrote:
On August 12 2026 18:25 Jankisa wrote:
Also, dhyb complaining about purity testing while he moves goalposts form "he's not allowed to like a streamer"
If you invite a streamer that says provocative things to campaign with you, be prepared to issue repudiations.

"he's not allowed to oppose financing Israel's military"
Saying there's no difference between offensive and defensive weapons is stupid.

Like I told you earlier, trying to dumb down your opponent's arguments communicates that you have little confidence in your own.

And when my original post includes two objections, it isn't moving the goalposts to restate both objections. I even linked that post in my post, just in case anyone forgot!


Just answer the question buddy, it's not that hard.
Asked by another and answered yesterday. Read back just a few posts in the thread.

You really aren't helping your case by trying to invent new ways to not do it. It's a simple question, you refuse to answer it, you are an equivalent of an election denier.

It's not that complicated, there is no need to dumb anything down, your refusal is plenty dumb already.
Here we go again. You misrepresent other people's views, and then dodge when you're called out on it. My position is that it communicates that you have no real faith in the strength of your own arguments. Just state them honestly and argue against them. Or get better arguments so that you don't feel tempted to change those of your opponents.

You didn't re-read my original post to find I had two objections to El-Sayed? You're just insisting that two objections from the start is moving the goalposts from one objection, contrary to evidence?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27259 Posts
38 minutes ago
#118115
I don’t understand why it’s so controversial to say a state that’s incessantly meddled in the affairs of others was due a bit of blowback.

Nor do I see it as a complex distinction between said state having it coming and Joe and Jane American not deserving their fates.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12834 Posts
31 minutes ago
#118116
On August 12 2026 23:39 WombaT wrote:
I don’t understand why it’s so controversial to say a state that’s incessantly meddled in the affairs of others was due a bit of blowback.

Nor do I see it as a complex distinction between said state having it coming and Joe and Jane American not deserving their fates.

Hasan said 911, 911 isn't a "a bit of blowback".
Saying the state should have terrorism coming, and then claiming the average Americans not deserving it is self contradictory.
Terrorism is specific about attack on non combatant.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12834 Posts
24 minutes ago
#118117
Also at some point people just need to remember.

It was European nations that drawn artificial borders.
And then it was super power nations that agreed Israel should exist to further make the region unstablized.

There's no powerful nations that didn't or doesn't meddle the region.
You can say the US did the worst job, but let's not pretend it's only the US "meddling the affairs of others". That idea is so out of touch with history.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3020 Posts
15 minutes ago
#118118
Who is claiming that the United States is singularly responsible for that? Brother, all of the dystopian things the US has done to other countries they learned from watching the British and French.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12834 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-12 15:10:02
8 minutes ago
#118119
On August 13 2026 00:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Who is claiming that the United States is singularly responsible for that? Brother, all of the dystopian things the US has done to other countries they learned from watching the British and French.

I didn't say the US is solely responsible. I am saying most if not all powerful nations are meddling in global geopolitical affairs including the middle east.

The idea that meddling in other affairs imply they deserve terrorism attack, is out of touch.
And the US is always involved whether they take or do not take any action, that's the nature of being a super power.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
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