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Northern Ireland26953 Posts
On June 06 2026 02:31 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2026 13:01 Introvert wrote:
The Republican party does run towards the center, esp in the Trump years. A majority of voters want(ed) deportations, "no men in women's sports" and no reforms to Social Security or Medicare. Much of Trump's victory was not only saying "Biden sucked" but it was pointing back to Kamala's *own words* as a politician from deep blue California. Trump was seen (accurately) as the more moderate candidate.
It really says a lot about how brain broken USA is that this kind of insane post gets dropped and no one bats an eye. This guys says that Republicans are moderating towards center and that Trump was more moderate then Kamala, I mean, how can someone write this out and not self-combust from palpable irony is insane to me. The guy who enacted more then half of the project 2025 fascism speed-run playbook is "the moderate" and the party who enabled this is the one "running towards the center". The guy, like every other wanna be strong man far right fascist has gone after minorities, taken away rights from them, started wars and exploded the budget and this guy has the gal to write this shit out, amazing!
I think you can make the case that some policies are theoretically moderate, execution is another thing
If my partner is down for some lovemaking, quite moderate stuff in the confines in a relationship, but I proceed to choke her and repeatedly punch her in the face I’m not sure one can really call that moderate
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He’s just confusing moderate with populist. There is absolutely nothing moderate about Trump, but he’s not strictly right wing either.
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If hunting the homeless for sport is your political lodestar, he seems pretty centrist.
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On June 06 2026 02:31 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2026 13:01 Introvert wrote:
The Republican party does run towards the center, esp in the Trump years. A majority of voters want(ed) deportations, "no men in women's sports" and no reforms to Social Security or Medicare. Much of Trump's victory was not only saying "Biden sucked" but it was pointing back to Kamala's *own words* as a politician from deep blue California. Trump was seen (accurately) as the more moderate candidate.
It really says a lot about how brain broken USA is that this kind of insane post gets dropped and no one bats an eye. This guys says that Republicans are moderating towards center and that Trump was more moderate then Kamala, I mean, how can someone write this out and not self-combust from palpable irony is insane to me. The guy who enacted more then half of the project 2025 fascism speed-run playbook is "the moderate" and the party who enabled this is the one "running towards the center". The guy, like every other wanna be strong man far right fascist has gone after minorities, taken away rights from them, started wars and exploded the budget and this guy has the gal to write this shit out, amazing!
What parts of the Heritage Foundation's 2025 Mandate for Leadership haven't been enacted yet? What do we still have left before reaching full fascism?
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On June 06 2026 02:31 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2026 13:01 Introvert wrote:
The Republican party does run towards the center, esp in the Trump years. A majority of voters want(ed) deportations, "no men in women's sports" and no reforms to Social Security or Medicare. Much of Trump's victory was not only saying "Biden sucked" but it was pointing back to Kamala's *own words* as a politician from deep blue California. Trump was seen (accurately) as the more moderate candidate.
It really says a lot about how brain broken USA is that this kind of insane post gets dropped and no one bats an eye. This guys says that Republicans are moderating towards center and that Trump was more moderate then Kamala, I mean, how can someone write this out and not self-combust from palpable irony is insane to me. The guy who enacted more then half of the project 2025 fascism speed-run playbook is "the moderate" and the party who enabled this is the one "running towards the center". The guy, like every other wanna be strong man far right fascist has gone after minorities, taken away rights from them, started wars and exploded the budget and this guy has the gal to write this shit out, amazing!
The spectrum as many people see it is more about how much the government intervenes in capitalism and people's personal lives, as opposed to the specific policies. The policies themselves are seen more as preference or "common sense" rather than ideological or partisan in many cases.
So someone like Intro sees Trump's meddling as moving toward liberals/the center and their theory of capitalism with strong government influence and Trump's particular implementation of that as sort of a "careful what you wish for" issue for Democrats and their theory of government.
That's reductive (and ridiculous for plenty of reasons imo) of course, but it may help people better understand how "conservative" Republicans generally get to thinking like Intro's post.
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People just really don't have any idea of what Trump ran on, apparently. He ditched the most unpopular parts of the GOP agenda. Even if you absurdly think he is a fascist he didn't run on facism. He was perceived as more moderate to the electorate, that was public data. Kamala was a lefty from CA who, when asked what she would do differently than Biden, couldn't answer. Step outside whatever lefty bubble you are in.
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On June 06 2026 03:27 Introvert wrote:
Even if you absurdly think he is a fascist he didn't run on facism.
Ah yes, "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country", famously centrist
Kamala was a lefty from CA who, when asked what she would do differently than Biden, couldn't answer. Step outside whatever lefty bubble you are in.
the fact that Joe Biden was known as the most milquetoast boring centrist imaginable but you think he was far-left and everyone who disagrees is in a bubble is fucking hilarious
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Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every tim
On June 06 2026 03:34 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:27 Introvert wrote:
Even if you absurdly think he is a fascist he didn't run on facism. Ah yes, "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country", famously centrist Show nested quote +Kamala was a lefty from CA who, when asked what she would do differently than Biden, couldn't answer. Step outside whatever lefty bubble you are in. the fact that Joe Biden was known as the most milquetoast boring centrist imaginable but you think he was far-left and everyone who disagrees is in a bubble is fucking hilarious
Biden also ran as a moderate then had people convince him he was FDR. His paralysis at the border is an excellent example of how people ("swing voters") did not get what they were promised. Meanwhile his heir was him and then some. Trump 100% was seen as closer to the middle of the electorate. But you can continue to ignore all context and really anything of actual relevance ans just pick and choose from whatever time and place you wish I guess.
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On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time.
So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to?
Edit:
Biden also ran as a moderate then had people convince him he was FDR. His paralysis at the border is an excellent example of how people ("swing voters") did not get what they were promised. Meanwhile his heir was him and then some. Trump 100% was seen as closer to the middle of the electorate. But you can continue to ignore all context and really anything of actual relevance ans just pick and choose from whatever time and place you wish I guess.
Setting aside the fact that Biden negotiated a border security bill with congressional Republicans who then literally killed it because Trump wanted to campaign on the border being insecure and no amount of lying will ever change that:
Your reasoning is the people want the border closed, so closing the border is moderate. If the majority of the country wanted to build gas chambers for minorities and establish a thousand-year reich, does that mean that's moderate too?
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On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to?
Do you know what "moderate" means in this discussion? It isn't with reference to some abstract ideal you made up. It is relative to the electorate.
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On June 06 2026 02:31 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2026 13:01 Introvert wrote:
The Republican party does run towards the center, esp in the Trump years. A majority of voters want(ed) deportations, "no men in women's sports" and no reforms to Social Security or Medicare. Much of Trump's victory was not only saying "Biden sucked" but it was pointing back to Kamala's *own words* as a politician from deep blue California. Trump was seen (accurately) as the more moderate candidate.
It really says a lot about how brain broken USA is that this kind of insane post gets dropped and no one bats an eye. This guys says that Republicans are moderating towards center and that Trump was more moderate then Kamala, I mean, how can someone write this out and not self-combust from palpable irony is insane to me. The guy who enacted more then half of the project 2025 fascism speed-run playbook is "the moderate" and the party who enabled this is the one "running towards the center". The guy, like every other wanna be strong man far right fascist has gone after minorities, taken away rights from them, started wars and exploded the budget and this guy has the gal to write this shit out, amazing!
In my case, it simply says that i have mostly lost interest in interacting with some of the people on this forum, because they post ever more insane shit and don't show any ability to live in the same reality as i do.
I have very strong rules about posters i never reply to because it is never worth it, and i want to keep my sanity.
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On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to?
You are the one who broached the subject of immigration just now, you brought it up, you can't bring up a topic and then "so you're saying" somebody who answers the thing you brought up because they answered the subject you brought up instead of something else.
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On June 06 2026 03:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to? You are the one who broached the subject of immigration just now, you brought it up, you can't bring up a topic and then "so you're saying" somebody who answers the thing you brought up because they answered the subject you brought up instead of something else.
Thanks, I'm happy to talk about how Republicans literally ran on Nazi Germany-era rhetoric with regards to immigration and that makes them far-right by definition.
“Why do you use words like ‘vermin’ and ‘poisoning of the blood’?” Howard Kurtz, the media critic and interviewer, asked on Fox News. “The press, as you know, immediately reacts to that by saying, ‘Well, that’s the kind of language that Hitler and Mussolini used.’”
“Because our country is being poisoned,” Mr. Trump responded.
"moderate"
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On June 06 2026 03:46 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:44 oBlade wrote:On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to? You are the one who broached the subject of immigration just now, you brought it up, you can't bring up a topic and then "so you're saying" somebody who answers the thing you brought up because they answered the subject you brought up instead of something else. Thanks, I'm happy to talk about how Republicans literally ran on Nazi Germany-era rhetoric with regards to immigration and that makes them far-right by definition. Show nested quote +“Why do you use words like ‘vermin’ and ‘poisoning of the blood’?” Howard Kurtz, the media critic and interviewer, asked on Fox News. “The press, as you know, immediately reacts to that by saying, ‘Well, that’s the kind of language that Hitler and Mussolini used.’”
“Because our country is being poisoned,” Mr. Trump responded. "moderate"
As someone who you told has "blood" on their hands, I don't give a shit about your indignation towards Trump's campaign language. Unfortunately for you the US public in 2024 rated immigration as a top issue, the majority wanting less immigration, the majority wanting a secure border, the vast majority like 80/20 wanting criminals deported (another 80/20 issue is voter ID which Democrats are squarely to the extreme on). In a world where the population has to choose between Trump or a party that causes 10k a day crossing chaos at the border, and thinks illegal alien criminals are here to plant coconut trees, the former is moderate on that issue. To say nothing of other issues. Your problem is thinking "sit and do nothing" is a moderate default position. If one's house is burning down, "take a nap" is not moderate, it's radically stupid inaction.
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On June 06 2026 03:42 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to? Do you know what "moderate" means in this discussion? It isn't with reference to some abstract ideal you made up. It is relative to the electorate.
So the point you're making is that Americans are so right wing that Trump can be perceived as a moderate in that context? I'm not even disagreeing on this one, just clarifying if that's what you meant.
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United States44033 Posts
On June 06 2026 03:34 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:27 Introvert wrote:
Even if you absurdly think he is a fascist he didn't run on facism. Ah yes, "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country", famously centrist
This is the mic drop response that ends the argument because what else needs saying. The guy is a fascist.
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On June 06 2026 04:02 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:46 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:44 oBlade wrote:On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to? You are the one who broached the subject of immigration just now, you brought it up, you can't bring up a topic and then "so you're saying" somebody who answers the thing you brought up because they answered the subject you brought up instead of something else. Thanks, I'm happy to talk about how Republicans literally ran on Nazi Germany-era rhetoric with regards to immigration and that makes them far-right by definition. “Why do you use words like ‘vermin’ and ‘poisoning of the blood’?” Howard Kurtz, the media critic and interviewer, asked on Fox News. “The press, as you know, immediately reacts to that by saying, ‘Well, that’s the kind of language that Hitler and Mussolini used.’”
“Because our country is being poisoned,” Mr. Trump responded. "moderate" As someone who you told has "blood" on their hands, I don't give a shit about your indignation towards Trump's campaign language. Unfortunately for you the US public in 2024 rated immigration as a top issue, the majority wanting less immigration, the majority wanting a secure border, the vast majority like 80/20 wanting criminals deported (another 80/20 issue is voter ID which Democrats are squarely to the extreme on). In a world where the population has to choose between Trump or a party that causes 10k a day crossing chaos at the border, and thinks illegal alien criminals are here to plant coconut trees, the former is moderate on that issue. To say nothing of other issues. Your problem is thinking "sit and do nothing" is a moderate default position. If one's house is burning down, "take a nap" is not moderate, it's radically stupid inaction.
So Republicans sabotaging the border so they could run on it as a campaign issue is the most moderate of all moderate positions, then?
oBlade, you sound schizophrenic because you're simultaneously trying to agree that Trump is moderate, but also the immigration crisis is so apocalyptic that Hitler-echoing radical policies are what's required to solve the issue. Pick a side and stick with it instead of hopping across the fence so freely like the immigrants you hate so much.
On June 06 2026 04:04 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2026 03:42 Introvert wrote:On June 06 2026 03:40 LightSpectra wrote:On June 06 2026 03:36 Introvert wrote:
Trump ran on closing the border not leaving it open. Still doggedly ignoring the single most important part every time. So your argument is literally "the most important issue to me is X and anyone who supports that is by definition centrist"? Do you even understand what the left/right paradigm refers to? Do you know what "moderate" means in this discussion? It isn't with reference to some abstract ideal you made up. It is relative to the electorate. So the point you're making is that Americans are so right wing that Trump can be perceived as a moderate in that context? I'm not even disagreeing on this one, just clarifying if that's what you meant.
It's not even that reasoned out. It's moderate=good, Trump=good, so Trump=moderate. Words have no meaning whatsoever.
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Maybe he means what Trump has said that his fans believe, like that he was the president of peace and no more wars. Traditionally a more left position than right. Clearly it was utter bullshit, like Mexico paying for the wall or other countries paying tariffs, and so on.
Not sure, because it’s such a wild take in reality.
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For these types of questions that debatelords want to argue, you just need to ask any LLM to get the answer.
Americans are so far gone they couldn't even agree on the answer for "what color is the sky?" It seems...
+ Show Spoiler +If by "moderate" you mean **closer to the political center of U.S. public opinion**, most political scientists and major media analyses in the 2024 election cycle would generally place **Kamala Harris's campaign closer to the center than Donald Trump's campaign**. However, the answer depends on what you mean by "moderate": * **Economic policy  * Harris proposed some progressive policies but campaigned more as a mainstream Democrat than as a left-wing reformer. Trump supported tariffs, stricter immigration policies, and a more nationalist economic agenda, which many analysts viewed as departures from traditional center-right positions. * **Immigration * Trump's campaign advocated measures such as large-scale deportations and stronger restrictions, positions generally considered further from the political center than Harris's. * **Social issues * Harris largely aligned with mainstream Democratic positions on abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, and civil rights. Trump aligned with conservative Republican positions and emphasized cultural issues that appealed strongly to his base. * **Foreign policy * Both candidates departed from older bipartisan consensus in different ways. Trump's "America First" approach is often described as more populist and less traditionally centrist than Harris's more conventional alliance-focused approach. That said, moderation can also be measured **relative to each party**: * Within the Democratic Party, Harris was often viewed as somewhat more moderate than the party's progressive wing. * Within the Republican Party, Trump largely defined the party's direction rather than occupying a moderate faction within it. Political scientists who use ideological scoring systems typically place Kamala Harris to the left of center and Donald Trump to the right of center, but generally find Trump further from the center than Harris, making Harris's 2024 campaign the more moderate of the two by that definition. If you're interested, I can also compare them issue-by-issue (economy, immigration, foreign policy, social issues) and identify where each was closer to the median American voter.
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On June 06 2026 04:41 Billyboy wrote:
Maybe he means what Trump has said that his fans believe, like that he was the president of peace and no more wars. Traditionally a more left position than right. Clearly it was utter bullshit, like Mexico paying for the wall or other countries paying tariffs, and so on.
Not sure, because it’s such a wild take in reality.
He started a platform called truth.
Don't know what it has been spreading (might be drugs tbh) but around here it's the complete opposite. Questionable employee practices.
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EPT
