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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
Falling
Canada11363 Posts
He shouldn’t be calling 50% of his country population “garbage”. Once. In reaction to commenting about the insults to the Puerto Rico that came from Trump's campaign... who was vetted because they nixed calling Harris a foul name, so it's not like it was some rogue supporter who snuck on the stage. And the other one is the former president who has been vomiting 'garbage' and 'scum' insults non-stop. Does that matter? | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44605 Posts
On November 01 2024 08:20 Timebon3s wrote: The «speaker» is a standup comedian. Why someone would invite him to a political rally is beyond me. The other person is the sitting president. He shouldn’t be calling 50% of his country population “garbage”. Even Kamela said it was a stupid thing to say. It’s blown up and irrelevant though. It has nothing to do with Kamala, and Biden has been saying really stupid things for years now so who cares really. Yeah pretty much. All of the speeches at that rally were vetted by Trump's campaign, so the buck stops with Trump. Trump was also the president, and is running for president again, so he should definitely care about what he says and what his representatives say. Also, as Falling pointed out in the video above, Trump constantly calls everyone and everything garbage (and much, much worse), so while it's definitely a stupid thing for anyone (including Biden) to say, Trump is the last person allowed to throw stones at anyone else when it comes to toxic rhetoric. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2574 Posts
On November 01 2024 08:48 Timebon3s wrote: Isn’t that what you guys call “whataboutism”? This is deliciously ironic, well played. Not only do you correctly call out whataboutism, you also invoke your own whataboutism with "What about your whataboutism?" which is fucking hilarious. Respect. That said, I do see a lot less wrong with Biden referring to the content of some Trump supporters and the following dem response (including, but not limited to someone transcribing the sentence that came prior where Biden almost declared himself as being from Puerto Rico) as a lot more sane than, say, people celebrating the promise that Trump will be a dictator day one. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Falling
Canada11363 Posts
On November 01 2024 08:48 Timebon3s wrote: Isn’t that what you guys call “whataboutism”? No. It means if you try to call them equivalent, you have no standards for these so-called right wing politicians. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2574 Posts
On November 01 2024 10:10 Falling wrote: No. It means if you try to call them equivalent, you have no standards for these so-called right wing politicians. I mean it is still whataboutism to point to Trumpers' horrid double standard regarding what politicians should say in defense of Biden's mid, lukewarm remark. The issue is the context around them bringing it up makes it impossible to believe "He said garbage!!!!!!" is brought up in good faith as a legitimate concern, because it isn't. | ||
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Falling
Canada11363 Posts
Either they are maliciously applying a double standard or they are entirely incapable of self-reflection and have memory-holed what they, themselves, have said on numerous occasions or... what... something else. But one thing it isn't is that they have been the party of decorum and restrained rhetoric all along. Stop the Steal! Stop the Steal! They're going to take your country from you. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2574 Posts
On November 01 2024 11:18 Falling wrote: Isn't that what my first post on the subject is about? Effectively I am vehemently doubting Trump and his cronies they are protesting 'garbage' in good faith. (All that pearl clutching, etc) Either they are maliciously applying a double standard or they are entirely incapable of self-reflection and have memory-holed what they, themselves, have said on numerous occasions or... what... something else. But one thing it isn't is that they have been the party of decorum and restrained rhetoric all along. Stop the Steal! Stop the Steal! They're going to take your country from you. Totally. (Your second post) is whataboutism, in the sense that it's an appeal to an external event to avoid accepting responsibility for what was said. Tim3bones isn't incorrect to call it whataboutism. Tim3bones' implication that whataboutism is a leftist creation is incorrect (What child hasn't thrown out the "SUSAN STARTED IT" defense and had it shut down by their parents. My conservative christian parents sure did.), and for your whataboutism to have any actual negative weight it'd require trumpers to be genuinely hurt by the words and not announcing it mid-rally as 'breaking news'. I don't blame you for not giving trumpers the benefit of the doubt. I certainly don't feel that they deserve it in this case. -e- Tim3bones did not mean to imply it was leftist, meant to imply american. Bad read on my part. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
Didn’t this forum use to show which country you’re from? Bad wording by me anyway. My original point was that there’s a difference between a standup comedian and a president. The comment from Biden was unnecessary and dividing. Pretty much what Kamala Harris said And even IF Trump said it, there’s no reason to go down to his level. We’re talking about someone who wants to drink bleach and nuke hurricanes here, he’s not exactly Einstein. But as I said earlier, this is seems very blown up. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2574 Posts
On November 01 2024 11:58 Timebon3s wrote: When I said “you guys” I didn’t mean leftist, but Americans. Didn’t this forum use to show which country you’re from? Bad wording by me anyway. My original point was that there’s a difference between a standup comedian and a president. The comment from Biden was unnecessary and dividing. Pretty much what Kamala Harris said And even IF Trump said it, there’s no reason to go down to his level. We’re talking about someone who wants to drink bleach and nuke hurricanes here, he’s not exactly Einstein. But as I said earlier, this is seems very blown up. Fair! My bad! You can designate country in your profile, it won't show anything otherwise. | ||
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Falling
Canada11363 Posts
As Biden has declined, his comebacks have as well. His debate had a similar one. "I'm not dumb, you're dumb". Something like that. I can't remember the exact insult, but it was equally ineffective whatever it was. But it's also not dividing as I don't see genuine hurt. I see hyper-partisan joy. They finally got Harris... er Biden to say the deplorable line. Election saved. Trump wins. Scum and Enemy within loses. Democrats are such very bad people, sick people, radical left lunatics. I can't believe they would resort to name calling. So divisive. Harris... er Biden said the thing. We win. Bunch of phonies. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25676 Posts
On November 01 2024 11:58 Timebon3s wrote: When I said “you guys” I didn’t mean leftist, but Americans. Didn’t this forum use to show which country you’re from? Bad wording by me anyway. My original point was that there’s a difference between a standup comedian and a president. The comment from Biden was unnecessary and dividing. Pretty much what Kamala Harris said And even IF Trump said it, there’s no reason to go down to his level. We’re talking about someone who wants to drink bleach and nuke hurricanes here, he’s not exactly Einstein. But as I said earlier, this is seems very blown up. Ah sometimes these things need to be pointed out It’s just not very politically expedient given how remarkably sensitive some folks can be | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21797 Posts
On November 01 2024 08:20 Timebon3s wrote: If they have a problem with that they should consider not supporting a fascist rapist felon.The «speaker» is a standup comedian. Why someone would invite him to a political rally is beyond me. The other person is the sitting president. He shouldn’t be calling 50% of his country population “garbage”. Even Kamela said it was a stupid thing to say. It’s blown up and irrelevant though. It has nothing to do with Kamala, and Biden has been saying really stupid things for years now so who cares really. Hillary was never wrong about the basket of deplorables. 1/3 of the US population is beyond saving, and they have repeatedly shown that to be true over the last 8+ years. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44605 Posts
On November 01 2024 18:42 Gorsameth wrote: If they have a problem with that they should consider not supporting a fascist rapist felon. Hillary was never wrong about the basket of deplorables. 1/3 of the US population is beyond saving, and they have repeatedly shown that to be true over the last 8+ years. There's a running meme that Hillary Clinton was basically right about everything regarding Trump and Trump's supporters - all the warnings she gave about Trump's rhetoric and potential actions that have clearly been confirmed. I don't know if 20/20 hindsight would have made more people (in swing states) vote for Hillary Clinton if they could go back in time to the 2016 election, but way too many people incorrectly dismissed the things she had said. "“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” That is not all Clinton said. “[Trump] tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.” Clinton was right on every count." https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/6/23/hillary-clinton-was-right "She had faults as a candidate, but she was absolutely right about the danger posed by Donald Trump and his followers. ... let’s not forget that back when it mattered most, with America at a crossroads, Hillary Clinton warned us, over and over, about what would happen if the opposition’s demagogue was handed the reins of power. ... She got it right during the 2016 debates when she spoke directly to Trump: “(Putin) would rather have a puppet as president. (We know) that the Russians have engaged in cyberattacks against the United States of America, that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are willing to spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up NATO, do whatever he wants to do. And that you continue to get help from him, because he has a very clear favorite in this race.” She got it right in 2016 when she warned about the MAGA movement’s animosity toward people of color: “Trump is reinforcing harmful stereotypes and offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. It’s a disturbing preview of what kind of president he’d be.” She got it right in 2016 when she warned that the GOP would target gay people all over again, regardless of “the progress that we fought for, that many of you were on the front lines for. It may not be as secure as we once expected.” She got it right in a 2016 speech when she warned that “a fringe element has effectively taken over the Republican Party. And this is part of a broader story — the rising tide of hardline, right-wing nationalism around the world. … So no one should have any illusions about what’s really going on here.” She got it right in 2016 when she warned about a fragile future for women’s reproductive rights: “The fact that our next president could appoint as many as three or four justices in the next four years (demonstrates) that we can’t take (those rights) for granted. Just consider Donald Trump, the Republicans’ presumptive nominee. … He has pledged to appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade. … And that’s why this election is so important. The outcome of November’s contests is going to be a deciding factor in whether our elected officials and our courts defend or attack a woman’s right to health care for generations to come.” She’s still getting it right, by the way. Last year she noted: “There is a plot against the country by people who truly want to turn the clock back. They believe that the progress we’ve made on all kinds of civil rights and human rights, the cultural changes that have taken place, are so deeply threatening that they want to stage a coup.” If that coup is completed in 2024, don’t say that Hillary didn’t warn us." https://kansasreflector.com/2022/05/07/hillary-clinton-keeps-getting-it-right/ | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
I can understand why the American people wanted something “different” in 2016. Everyone hated politicians and he was this big successful (failed), rich businessman who was going to make America great again…Hillary fucked up her emails and all that. Even George W Bush got a second term, but Trump didn’t…and then January 6 happened. After all the shit he’s said and done, the American people can’t possibly be so blind and stupid that they vote him in again. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44605 Posts
On November 01 2024 20:51 Timebon3s wrote: This is why I just don’t see Trump winning. I can understand why the American people wanted something “different” in 2016. Everyone hated politicians and he was this big successful (failed), rich businessman who was going to make America great again…Hillary fucked up her emails and all that. Even George W Bush got a second term, but Trump didn’t…and then January 6 happened. After all the shit he’s said and done, the American people can’t possibly be so blind and stupid that they vote him in again. My heart agrees with you 100%. My head is far less confident, unfortunately. I think that the American people can possibly be just that blind and stupid. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4315 Posts
But of course, hindsight changes things. While I would still oppose her (she still doesn't work for peace), I now know how much worse Trump was already back in 2016. There were sufficient clues, I was just not paying enough attention. My belief was that he was going to have a less pro-war stance than Clinton. This might be true, but in place of that he creates chaos and confusion. He has no plan to reduce war, instead his foreign ideas (I can't call them "policies", he only ever brainstorms) would give other players in war-torn countries carte blanche for greater oppression and destruction. Trump probably has no idea what a peace keeping effort entails, he only ever looks at things from the radical extremes. Heaven or hell. Like a child who's convinced he's god. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21797 Posts
On November 01 2024 20:51 Timebon3s wrote: He is going to get ~75 mil votes...This is why I just don’t see Trump winning. I can understand why the American people wanted something “different” in 2016. Everyone hated politicians and he was this big successful (failed), rich businessman who was going to make America great again…Hillary fucked up her emails and all that. Even George W Bush got a second term, but Trump didn’t…and then January 6 happened. After all the shit he’s said and done, the American people can’t possibly be so blind and stupid that they vote him in again. Yes (a part of) the American people are that stupid. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4315 Posts
https://apnews.com/article/election-trump-cheney-war-hawk-14e2037b4fd8d22acf64c8b888ce296d For context, Cheney used to be a harsh critic of Harris. Now she works for her. Trump hates Cheney because she switched sides. He threatens "traitors" like her with persecution and now even death. Threats like these are literally his entire platform right now. https://x.com/1Nicdar/status/1852295858668060683 | ||
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