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On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists.
Manchin is probably the number one example of a "DINO" but Swearengin tried to primary him in 2018 and lost. She also ran in 2020 for the other senate seat and lost with the Republican getting more than 70% of the vote. Reality is that people in the United States don't want progressives or align with their values. You need to start by shifting the overton window in West Virginia so they'll even consider someone who aligns with your values.
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On July 10 2022 05:20 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:11 Zambrah wrote:
Primaries are crap for numerous reasons too, including the many, many, many ways the Democrats have to push their conservative favorites.
There are so many barriers that keep Democrats conservative and shitty from their unbelievably deep pockets, to party connections, to being able to go “if this person wins the primary then the Republican might win so go with the conservative dirt bag also we’re gonna funnel them funds so they can heartily outspend their opponent so really it’s just the pragmatic choice guys!”
At the end of the day what Democrats need in this country to do anything are a near impossible conflux of effective leadership, super majority of progressives, and to get these we need luck and competency from Democrats to promote effective leaders (lol that’s definitely not happening) as well as not just winning the popular vote which Democrats already regularly do, but acquire like 70+ Senate Seats and let’s be real, the American electoral system isn’t going to let that happen, especially when both parties, Republicans and Democrats, want to keep these things from happening. correct, which is why if your a progressive your better off escaping America then trying to change it.But calling them DINO's really isn't going to do anything.
That's probably true in the short term and on the individual level for most (albeit infeasible for many) but it seems like a lot of people around the world aren't grappling with what such a condition in the US means for the rest of the world.
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United States44448 Posts
On July 10 2022 05:20 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. + Show Spoiler +After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists. They use the same scheme in primaries? Biden and Clinton were both products of how the "but Republicans" part gets Democrats to intentionally vote against their preferences in primaries in order to appease Republicans. Democrats have essentially convinced themselves that voting against their preferences is the most hopeful way to get them.
The unfortunate reality is that the voting American public aren’t great people.
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Need to get rid of corporate lobbying. It's just plain garbage and destructive. Once our politicians are working for the people instead of for the corporations, we can have real progress.
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On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise.
Tbh i thought this was a thing already. As a name for the more conservative democrats but i guess it is not.
The conservative republicans try to steer the party and the voters into the conservative direction even more by calling more moderate republicans rino,s. The progressive democrats could try the same. Try steer the party and the voters in the progressive direction by calling conservative democrats dino,s.
This is kinda interesting. How the republicans made rino a thing yet the progressives failed (or are not even interested) in making dino a thing. It shows how much more organized and refined the conservative pr machine is when compared to the pr machine from the progressives. The later is virtually non existent and has a very low level of organization compared to what is behind the conservative pr.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On July 10 2022 05:35 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists. Manchin is probably the number one example of a "DINO" but Swearengin tried to primary him in 2018 and lost. She also ran in 2020 for the other senate seat and lost with the Republican getting more than 70% of the vote. Reality is that people in the United States don't want progressives or align with their values. You need to start by shifting the overton window in West Virginia so they'll even consider someone who aligns with your values.
Manchin is still somewhat explicable, tbh I’m alright with him getting his seat. A less conservative Democrat just loses that seat.
It’s elsewhere that’s the issue, places you could conceivably have someone more progressive leaning, in safe seats but do not.
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On July 10 2022 07:40 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:35 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists. Manchin is probably the number one example of a "DINO" but Swearengin tried to primary him in 2018 and lost. She also ran in 2020 for the other senate seat and lost with the Republican getting more than 70% of the vote. Reality is that people in the United States don't want progressives or align with their values. You need to start by shifting the overton window in West Virginia so they'll even consider someone who aligns with your values. Manchin is still somewhat explicable, tbh I’m alright with him getting his seat. A less conservative Democrat just loses that seat. It’s elsewhere that’s the issue, places you could conceivably have someone more progressive leaning, in safe seats but do not.
Too bad replacing a democrat in the senate with a more left democrat does absolutely nothing to pass legislation in this country.
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Nothing does anything to pass legislation in the US. I think the last decades have shown that clearly. The US is not designed to pass legislation.
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On July 10 2022 06:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. + Show Spoiler +After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists. They use the same scheme in primaries? Biden and Clinton were both products of how the "but Republicans" part gets Democrats to intentionally vote against their preferences in primaries in order to appease Republicans. Democrats have essentially convinced themselves that voting against their preferences is the most hopeful way to get them. The unfortunate reality is that the voting American public aren’t great people.
Compare the senators from Oregon to the senators from West Virginia. Anyone have any theories why these 2 groups of 2 are so different politically?
Here’s my theory: the voters in each of those states have significantly different average views. Those average views and politics determine who gets elected. It is not that we can just decide to have a bunch of socialist senators before we have socialist voters
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On July 10 2022 06:57 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Tbh i thought this was a thing already. As a name for the more conservative democrats but i guess it is not. The conservative republicans try to steer the party and the voters into the conservative direction even more by calling more moderate republicans rino,s. The progressive democrats could try the same. Try steer the party and the voters in the progressive direction by calling conservative democrats dino,s. This is kinda interesting. How the republicans made rino a thing yet the progressives failed (or are not even interested) in making dino a thing. It shows how much more organized and refined the conservative pr machine is when compared to the pr machine from the progressives. The later is virtually non existent and has a very low level of organization compared to what is behind the conservative pr.
Could.
The conservative machine isn’t exactly sophisticated, or appealing to sophisticated folks.
It’s not something that can be directly mirrored.
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On July 10 2022 07:40 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2022 05:35 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On July 10 2022 05:01 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:57 Zambrah wrote:On July 10 2022 04:49 Gorsameth wrote:On July 10 2022 04:42 StasisField wrote:On July 10 2022 04:33 Gahlo wrote:
Calling Democracts DINOS is dumb and should be avoided because a) clear "both sides, muh horseshoe theory" and b) everybody knows this is how Democrats act. Their behavior isn't a surprise. Their behavior should be discouraged though. Calling them names isn't going to discourage them. You want to change their behaviour? threaten their re-election. Can’t, cause whoops Republicans. Republicans are a free excuse to be as useless as they want because they can always threaten us with Republicans. There’s no winning in American electoralism. Threatening their re-election is what the primary is for. After that it is indeed a problem of choosing between the Democrats who are largely useless and literal fascists. Manchin is probably the number one example of a "DINO" but Swearengin tried to primary him in 2018 and lost. She also ran in 2020 for the other senate seat and lost with the Republican getting more than 70% of the vote. Reality is that people in the United States don't want progressives or align with their values. You need to start by shifting the overton window in West Virginia so they'll even consider someone who aligns with your values. Manchin is still somewhat explicable, tbh I’m alright with him getting his seat. A less conservative Democrat just loses that seat. It’s elsewhere that’s the issue, places you could conceivably have someone more progressive leaning, in safe seats but do not.
If you look at the voting history of WV any Democrat who isn’t Manchin is likely to lose. Manchin got in from extremely long termed WV senator Byrd back when WV wasn’t supremely red seeming.
Ever since like 2010ish WV started to become very red.
People would be surprised what states were firm Blue states and how recently they were blue before Democrats neglected those states red.
I swear to god if Democrats weren’t so utterly mediocre and neglectful and scornful they could have such an electoral advantage by recapturing former blue states by creating policy that directly and obviously uplifted those former blue states and their communities.
Like, a Democrat senator is from Montana, and that isn’t a state anyone would call purple. These states aren’t inherently unwinnable for Democrats they’re inherently unwinnable for the Democrats we have.
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Arizona making an effort to tamp down on police being held accountable via the public taking videos. Taking a video within eight feet of a cop trying to do things that inspire their murder instincts will now be a misdemeanor in Arizona!
Boy howdy I think we're going to see cops running at people holding phones like its a cartoon restraining order. And then when they get to them they'll probably start beating them up if there isnt like, a web of people with phones constantly keeping distance.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/08/arizona-law-illegal-film-police-8-feet?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=politics-arizona
What he's saying: "Nobody walks up to a cop when he is questioning a suspicious person or arresting somebody and stands one or two feet away. Common sense says you’re asking for trouble," Kavanagh said on Arizona PBS.
Details: People can face misdemeanor charges if they film within 8 feet of an officer:
Questioning a suspicious person.
Conducting an arrest, issuing a summons or enforcing the law.
Handling an emotionally distrubed or disorderly person who is exhibiting abnormal behavior.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On July 10 2022 11:24 Zambrah wrote:Arizona making an effort to tamp down on police being held accountable via the public taking videos. Taking a video within eight feet of a cop trying to do things that inspire their murder instincts will now be a misdemeanor in Arizona! Boy howdy I think we're going to see cops running at people holding phones like its a cartoon restraining order. And then when they get to them they'll probably start beating them up if there isnt like, a web of people with phones constantly keeping distance. https://www.axios.com/2022/07/08/arizona-law-illegal-film-police-8-feet?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_content=politics-arizonaShow nested quote +What he's saying: "Nobody walks up to a cop when he is questioning a suspicious person or arresting somebody and stands one or two feet away. Common sense says you’re asking for trouble," Kavanagh said on Arizona PBS.
Details: People can face misdemeanor charges if they film within 8 feet of an officer:
Questioning a suspicious person.
Conducting an arrest, issuing a summons or enforcing the law.
Handling an emotionally distrubed or disorderly person who is exhibiting abnormal behavior.
Don’t tread on me. Unless you’re treading on me, that’s fine
Asinine proposal.
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Don’t worry it’s not a proposal, the AZ governor signed it into law and it takes effect in September.
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How long do you think it will take until this gets abused by cops to force people they pull over to identify when they get within 8 feet?
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On July 10 2022 13:34 Gahlo wrote:
How long do you think it will take until this gets abused by cops to force people they pull over to identify when they get within 8 feet?
Oh shit yeah, anyone in a car is fucked by this law big time.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
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@Moodhoo
"Compare the senators from Oregon to the senators from West Virginia. Anyone have any theories why these 2 groups of 2 are so different politically?
Here’s my theory: the voters in each of those states have significantly different average views. Those average views and politics determine who gets elected. It is not that we can just decide to have a bunch of socialist senators before we have socialist voters"
Great post I feel like this is an example everyone on the forum could get some value from. Maybe Manchin is someone's example of a DINO but try to elect a non DINO in WV and your gonna end up with at best a RHINO lol. Not everywhere is NY or Cali and not everywhere is Texas or WV.
Shouldn't stop people from pushing their candidates in these area's though aka id never say don't push a progressive in X area because it'll harm a Neolib's chances or vise versa id be all for support a populist in X neocon area even if it hurt the neocon's chances. Take shots where YOU feel its justified for sure.
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EPT
