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Norway28929 Posts
On January 07 2021 05:19 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On January 07 2021 04:55 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 04:51 TheTenthDoc wrote:On January 07 2021 04:46 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 04:40 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Danglars, you probably don't want to lecture people about inaccurately appraising the harms of Trump or "worse-than-Trump" while armed Trump supporters have broken into the Capital Building more or less on his behest. I mean if you think the worst that can happen with break-the-system-to-fix-the-system is violent riots in the US capitol to end the presidency of someone who can't admit he lost fair and square, you've got another thing coming. These aren't riots to end the presidency of that man. They're the opposite. You think they have a prayer of succeeding? Man, I can't imagine the fragility of such a constitutional republic. Gimme your honest odds that this mob of however many thousand successfully keep Trump in office beyond January 20th. No they're not going to succeed. But this is still way beyond the pale of what is remotely acceptable to support. Following the post-election events, do you still think Trump was a better choice than Biden? It should be fairly easy by now, regardless of your political affiliation. Alright, on to more of the main questions that should be asked. The post-election events make Biden the better choice retrospectively, all the usual hypothetical assumptions attendant. Go ahead and impeach and remove Trump now for the less hypothetical stuff, he deserves to be removed from office for squatting on Georgia's elected officials and the ceremonies of certifying an election that is finished.
Good! I am specifically not criticizing the prior vote, but I am pleased to see that you can see, retrospectively, that he represents more of a danger to democracy than you previously thought. 
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On January 07 2021 05:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:19 WorthlessSC wrote:
It's very smart of the Proud Boys to not be tearing down any statues. Clearly that would warrant the deployment of the national guard... We're going to get an investigation on why the national guard isn't already there. These people flew on planes to DC and marched to the Capitol building. Law and order entails guarding the federal buildings for the nation, Portland or DC.
Yes, we're all pretending last summer didnt happen and we didnt get weeks of silence/weak statements from everyone including the president elect.
Of course as you said, the hammer should be brought down on everyone they can find. Needless to say, I don't believe American government is so disconnected from the people that this could be neccessary. This isn't 1776 and these aren't patriots.
edit: also forgot baseball shooting
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Is this what it takes? To encourage the kind of change America clearly needs?
We have armed nuts storming the capitol of the US, is there any chance we don't go back to Business as Usual after this?
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On January 07 2021 05:20 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:16 Nouar wrote:On January 07 2021 05:11 Nevuk wrote:On January 07 2021 05:08 Danglars wrote:
The best way to beat Antifa is to become Antifa for this crew. National Guard time and prison sentences. I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to say here. Antifa definitely aren't members of the national guard and almost none are in prison. Reporters are speculating that some of these are white nationalists based on their flags, who ARE frequently made in prisons. He is saying that they are imitating antifa, and that the national guard should act, and they should serve prison time. The dot separates the sentences :-) Oh, the first sentence was just such nonsense I couldn't parse it, apparently. Antifa has never done anything remotely close to this (while right wing lunatics did something similar to Michigan very recently).
They tried to breach a federal courthouse with hammers and junk, obviously not comparable in the current sense, but the only point is that Federal forces should be staffed, deployed, and the whole anticipate bit, to prevent any mob from forcibly entering federal buildings. It clearly sucked ass today in the Capitol, and there should be a major investigation for the inadequacy to protect sitting Senators of the United States in their place of business.
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On January 07 2021 05:28 Slydie wrote:
Danglars: Not arguing this time, I just want to appreciate you being here. As a European, you defend points of view which are very rare over here, and the mainstream media certainly does not reflect common opinions of million of US citizens in a fair way.
I hope you stick around for the next few years as well, as pointing out flaws with the Democrats will likely be even more important going forward.
There is no shortage here whatsoever of people more than willing to criticize the Democrats when they fuck up too. That much has been obvious in even the past couple days. What we really don't need is for someone to lecture us about Trump's incompetent attempt at a coup, as it's literally continuing to gain momentum and has broken into the White House.
He can fuck off with this shit.
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On January 07 2021 05:19 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:On January 07 2021 04:55 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 04:51 TheTenthDoc wrote:On January 07 2021 04:46 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 04:40 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Danglars, you probably don't want to lecture people about inaccurately appraising the harms of Trump or "worse-than-Trump" while armed Trump supporters have broken into the Capital Building more or less on his behest. I mean if you think the worst that can happen with break-the-system-to-fix-the-system is violent riots in the US capitol to end the presidency of someone who can't admit he lost fair and square, you've got another thing coming. These aren't riots to end the presidency of that man. They're the opposite. You think they have a prayer of succeeding? Man, I can't imagine the fragility of such a constitutional republic. Gimme your honest odds that this mob of however many thousand successfully keep Trump in office beyond January 20th. No they're not going to succeed. But this is still way beyond the pale of what is remotely acceptable to support. Following the post-election events, do you still think Trump was a better choice than Biden? It should be fairly easy by now, regardless of your political affiliation. Alright, on to more of the main questions that should be asked. The post-election events make Biden the better choice retrospectively, all the usual hypothetical assumptions attendant. Go ahead and impeach and remove Trump now for the less hypothetical stuff, he deserves to be removed from office for squatting on Georgia's elected officials and the ceremonies of certifying an election that is finished.
having a clean cut into an after Trump era is, while very much desireable, a fate too good for Republicans. they acted like children and now there is broken glass everywhere. they should get what's coming to them. losing elections is not enough imho to renew it and make it a viable party again.
On January 07 2021 05:22 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:20 Doublemint wrote:On January 07 2021 05:17 Erasme wrote:On January 07 2021 05:13 Doublemint wrote:On January 07 2021 05:01 Erasme wrote:
Wow Danglars being proven wrong once again 4min later. That's twice today bro. Wanna double down again you absolute moron ? ... come one there is no need for that. it looks bad but SO FAR nothing actual bad has happened. well, if you discard the optics and the shit usually following such optics looking at history lol. but in all honesty where are those dangerous looking storm troopers they brought to Portland? //edit: ok apparently someone has been shot. scratch the nothing bad has happened part -_- You mean after the DoD refusing to send the national guard after DC asked them to ? No i'm pretty sure the need for that was 4 years ago. please clarify, what was supposed to happen 4 years ago? Calling him an absolute baw.
ok, I guess that's a pejorative I am not familiar with ^^
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On January 07 2021 05:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:20 Nouar wrote:
At least now, we are pretty sure there is no future for Trump in politics, and it should be the clean break between the republican party and Trump.
Moderate republican voters should be forever reluctant to support him if they value "law and order" (Well I do hope so... But my beliefs in what is sane or not have been consistently shattered by republicans this past decade that I even doubt that now) Yeah, Trump is done with politics. This is the treason stuff. And now Trump's trying to "lock the barn door after the horse has bolted."
He has been doing that for years now, and it's sadly only now that you take it seriously ? It has been reported (and apparent in nearly every speech he makes) for years that his manner of speech was a way to direct others to do illegal stuff on his behalf but not giving the order directly, as mobsters do, so he can't be held legally responsible. It's good that there is finally a reckoning, but it comes so fucking late.
On January 07 2021 05:28 Slydie wrote:
Danglars: Not arguing this time, I just want to appreciate you being here. As a European, you defend points of view which are very rare over here, and the mainstream media certainly does not reflect common opinions of million of US citizens in a fair way.
I hope you stick around for the next few years as well, as pointing out flaws with the Democrats will likely be even more important going forward.
I still agree with that, though I will not stop arguing with you, Danglars ;-)
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Should arrest everyone who is there and not just try to disperse the crowd. Need to make an example so this doesn't happen again.
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Really curious what this ends up doing to websites like thedonald. TD has been actively calling for killing senators for a long time and has been telling people to show up to this event. Hard to call it anything other than terrorism recruitment at this point.
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This is terrorisme or am I missing something.
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On January 07 2021 05:26 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
This is is completely ridiculous. Is the police/military just going to let this be? How is this even possible in the US? Are they just going to let them occupy the buildings?
Police in the US are honestly useless in this sort of thing. They've always sided with fascists, and I suspect many of them want the protestors to succeed, even in DC.
With that said, this also just isn't their normal job. It appears to have largely been police incompetence that let them get so far : there should have been barricades far away from the capitol building that would have delayed this long enough to get reinforcements.
per 538
I reached out to one of my sources from this summer, John Noakes, a professor at Arcadia University, to ask him about what he’s seeing. He had a couple of things to say — with the caveat, of course, that he isn’t on the ground at this event.
First, he was surprised that the preparations for this protest didn’t include setting up a stronger perimeter further away from the Capitol, similar to the kind used at political conventions to isolate protesters from the event. That, in itself, would have been a major deescalation tactic, and Noakes said he was shocked that it doesn’t seem to have been done, knowing this protest would be happening today. The second thing he wanted to point out: There is only so much you can do to deescalate with people who don’t want deescalation to happen. Particularly with people who aren’t regular protesters interested in symbolic action.
ABC keeps calling this a national humiliation. This is the first instance where a peaceful transfer of power has not happened in US history - even in 1860, the actual inauguration wasn't contested like this.
On January 07 2021 05:32 Mohdoo wrote:
Really curious what this ends up doing to websites like thedonald. TD has been actively calling for killing senators for a long time and has been telling people to show up to this event. Hard to call it anything other than terrorism recruitment at this point.
That's always been illegal on a federal level. However, that requires the DOJ to press charges, and they seemed to have no desire to under Trump and Barr.
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One of the many chants is "Hang Mike Pence!"
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On January 07 2021 05:31 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:20 Nevuk wrote:On January 07 2021 05:16 Nouar wrote:On January 07 2021 05:11 Nevuk wrote:On January 07 2021 05:08 Danglars wrote:
The best way to beat Antifa is to become Antifa for this crew. National Guard time and prison sentences. I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to say here. Antifa definitely aren't members of the national guard and almost none are in prison. Reporters are speculating that some of these are white nationalists based on their flags, who ARE frequently made in prisons. He is saying that they are imitating antifa, and that the national guard should act, and they should serve prison time. The dot separates the sentences :-) Oh, the first sentence was just such nonsense I couldn't parse it, apparently. Antifa has never done anything remotely close to this (while right wing lunatics did something similar to Michigan very recently). They tried to breach a federal courthouse with hammers and junk, obviously not comparable in the current sense, but the only point is that Federal forces should be staffed, deployed, and the whole anticipate bit, to prevent any mob from forcibly entering federal buildings. It clearly sucked ass today in the Capitol, and there should be a major investigation for the inadequacy to protect sitting Senators of the United States in their place of business.
OK, that makes more sense. You're saying they should treat them like they treated antifa. Yes, agreed.
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On January 07 2021 05:36 Sapaio wrote:
This is terrorisme or am I missing something.
You're missing that they're not black or brown.
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On January 07 2021 05:30 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:23 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 05:19 WorthlessSC wrote:
It's very smart of the Proud Boys to not be tearing down any statues. Clearly that would warrant the deployment of the national guard... We're going to get an investigation on why the national guard isn't already there. These people flew on planes to DC and marched to the Capitol building. Law and order entails guarding the federal buildings for the nation, Portland or DC. Yes, we're all pretending last summer didnt happen and we didnt get weeks of silence/weak statements from everyone including the president elect. Of course as you said, the hammer should be brought down on everyone they can find. Needless to say, I don't believe American government is so disconnected from the people that this could be neccessary. This isn't 1776 and these aren't patriots.
Of course, this is prime season for people who can't hold two simultaneous ideas in their heads at the same time. Better bring up the statues right now, this situation has so much to say about statues! You gotta be for one thing or the other, they're contradictory!
If you see police force overwhelmed from riots, deploy the National Guard. And as conservatives know so well, bureaucratic failure and administrative failure are ever-present issues in the country, so whoever in the DoD screwed this one up should be hauled in to testify to the people's representatives pronto.
Like you said, this isn't 1776 and these aren't patriots. Prison time.
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That person that was shot. Saw another tweet and they looked dead. Like, dead dead. This is a disgrace and completely...hilarious. How can GOP be this childish? How can people not take the threats of these suburbanite commandos as serious threats to democracy? How do you let them stroll into the capitol building, fire shots, run amok all over, and still do nothing for hours?
If this is the fall, it couldn't have happened to a better country. Anyone affiliated with the far-right or can find an excuse for this is a POS.
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United States44450 Posts
On January 07 2021 05:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:20 Nouar wrote:
At least now, we are pretty sure there is no future for Trump in politics, and it should be the clean break between the republican party and Trump.
Moderate republican voters should be forever reluctant to support him if they value "law and order" (Well I do hope so... But my beliefs in what is sane or not have been consistently shattered by republicans this past decade that I even doubt that now) Yeah, Trump is done with politics. This is the treason stuff. And now Trump's trying to "lock the barn door after the horse has bolted."
This is who he’s always been. This is who everyone has been telling you he is for five years. Why are you now too cowardly to stand behind your man? He’s your man, he was your man when he said he wouldn’t accept the results in 2016 if he lost, he was your man when he interfered with investigations into his corruption and abuse of power, he was your man when he leveraged foreign aid to investigate political rivals, he was your man when he declared political enemies to be enemies of the state and had them killed, he was your man when he assembled this group of brown shirts, he was your man when he told them he’d not leave power and to stand by, he’s your man now.
Stand behind him and be damned with him you spineless Quisling.
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On January 07 2021 05:39 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 05:36 Sapaio wrote:
This is terrorisme or am I missing something. You're missing that they're not black or brown.
There would have been a coordinated response the likes of which you see for bomb disposal if the perps weren't White. And then we'd be bickering about whether they deserved it for defying authority, and whether they had a knife or some shit. Maybe they'll get some McDonald's before they get prison.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
How can such a charlatan cunt inspire such devotion? Bizarre
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EPT
