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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2125

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
February 19 2020 19:58 GMT
#42481
On February 20 2020 04:50 farvacola wrote:
The dislike for Bloomberg among the Mayor Pete, Klobuchar, and Biden fans I know is pretty consistent, so it’ll be interesting to see how the split goes down if they must choose between Bloomberg and Sanders.


Yeah I'm having a hard time finding anyone who is remotely willing to vote for Bloomberg. Bloomberg calling on others to drop may hilariously backfire. Buttigieg fans like the fact that he's "non-establishment". Buttigieg fans want something new, but they don't like socialism. I truly do think a lot of Buttigieg fans would be more likely to flock to Bernie than Bloomberg.

And what, do we expect Biden to take Bloomberg's advice and drop? Buttigieg? Klobuchar is the only one I could ever see dropping out.

Biden already calling out Bloomberg for not endorsing Obama.
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-19 20:31:13
February 19 2020 20:12 GMT
#42482
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”
NoiR
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
February 19 2020 20:56 GMT
#42483
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

Show nested quote +
White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
February 19 2020 20:57 GMT
#42484
Problem for Stephanie Grisham is that they've already found an old interview where he says he was directed by the white house and specifically Kelly to talk to Assange.

+ Show Spoiler +
Neosteel Enthusiast
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22307 Posts
February 19 2020 21:07 GMT
#42485
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
February 19 2020 21:18 GMT
#42486
On February 20 2020 05:57 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Problem for Stephanie Grisham is that they've already found an old interview where he says he was directed by the white house and specifically Kelly to talk to Assange.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://twitter.com/funder/status/1230212104499728395


The internet is wonderful. If you've lied somewhere publicly accessible years ago, someone's gonna dredge it up when it hurts the most.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11818 Posts
February 19 2020 21:39 GMT
#42487
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23928 Posts
February 19 2020 22:36 GMT
#42488
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
February 19 2020 22:44 GMT
#42489
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.

There was a joke on reddit I saw a while back saying that if Trump shot somebody he'd be acquited in the Senate 53-47, unless he shot a Republican, in which case it'd be 52-47. More recently I saw a slight spin off that went something like "Unless the Republican was Collins, in which case she'd say the president's actions were concerning and then vote to acquit."
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26742 Posts
February 19 2020 23:49 GMT
#42490
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.



'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23928 Posts
February 20 2020 00:12 GMT
#42491
On February 20 2020 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.


It's not just Trump. Bloomberg surging in the Democratic party speaks to the same trend.

Resentment isn't resistance unfortunately. For some the former manifests as the latter, but most people just push it downhill.

The authoritarian workplace just seeps into the home and school acts as both for many of the people there. The alienation and oppression we feel is pushed onto the next person based on snap judgments on weakness and proximity. In the workplace we see it from boss down, then the person leaves work and pushes it onto partners and kids. Then the partners and kids push it onto the weakest among them.

The same pattern takes place at schools from administrators, to principals, to teachers, to students, then among themselves, then to animals and inanimate objects.

It isn't entirely universal, in that people interrupt the chain in a variety of ways, but it looms over everything in a way that I don't find people following the same pattern politically as an aberration. At least that's how I see it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26742 Posts
February 20 2020 00:24 GMT
#42492
On February 20 2020 09:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.


It's not just Trump. Bloomberg surging in the Democratic party speaks to the same trend.

Resentment isn't resistance unfortunately. For some the former manifests as the latter, but most people just push it downhill.

The authoritarian workplace just seeps into the home and school acts as both for many of the people there. The alienation and oppression we feel is pushed onto the next person based on snap judgments on weakness and proximity. In the workplace we see it from boss down, then the person leaves work and pushes it onto partners and kids. Then the partners and kids push it onto the weakest among them.

The same pattern takes place at schools from administrators, to principals, to teachers, to students, then among themselves, then to animals and inanimate objects.

It isn't entirely universal, in that people interrupt the chain in a variety of ways, but it looms over everything in a way that I don't find people following the same pattern politically as an aberration. At least that's how I see it.

Well my main point was more that for whatever reason I find a resentful child who hates/disowns their parents more commonplace in than a Trump diehard accepting he’s done, anything wrong ever.

Your general point I agree with i just don’t think it really extends to the parent/child relationship.


'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23928 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-20 00:43:38
February 20 2020 00:27 GMT
#42493
On February 20 2020 09:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 09:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.


It's not just Trump. Bloomberg surging in the Democratic party speaks to the same trend.

Resentment isn't resistance unfortunately. For some the former manifests as the latter, but most people just push it downhill.

The authoritarian workplace just seeps into the home and school acts as both for many of the people there. The alienation and oppression we feel is pushed onto the next person based on snap judgments on weakness and proximity. In the workplace we see it from boss down, then the person leaves work and pushes it onto partners and kids. Then the partners and kids push it onto the weakest among them.

The same pattern takes place at schools from administrators, to principals, to teachers, to students, then among themselves, then to animals and inanimate objects.

It isn't entirely universal, in that people interrupt the chain in a variety of ways, but it looms over everything in a way that I don't find people following the same pattern politically as an aberration. At least that's how I see it.

Well my main point was more that for whatever reason I find a resentful child who hates/disowns their parents more commonplace in than a Trump diehard accepting he’s done, anything wrong ever.

Your general point I agree with i just don’t think it really extends to the parent/child relationship.




I'd agree that is the case with "good" parenting, I just don't think it is that common. More specifically that even when it is the case, many times there is an express asterisk that the rest of the world isn't like that and not to expect to change that.

The "Trump diehard" is just a different brand of the "Democrat/Republican diehard" (EDIT: or corporate diehards) imo.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26742 Posts
February 20 2020 01:03 GMT
#42494
On February 20 2020 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 09:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 09:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

White House spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, told reporters: “The president barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.”


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.


It's not just Trump. Bloomberg surging in the Democratic party speaks to the same trend.

Resentment isn't resistance unfortunately. For some the former manifests as the latter, but most people just push it downhill.

The authoritarian workplace just seeps into the home and school acts as both for many of the people there. The alienation and oppression we feel is pushed onto the next person based on snap judgments on weakness and proximity. In the workplace we see it from boss down, then the person leaves work and pushes it onto partners and kids. Then the partners and kids push it onto the weakest among them.

The same pattern takes place at schools from administrators, to principals, to teachers, to students, then among themselves, then to animals and inanimate objects.

It isn't entirely universal, in that people interrupt the chain in a variety of ways, but it looms over everything in a way that I don't find people following the same pattern politically as an aberration. At least that's how I see it.

Well my main point was more that for whatever reason I find a resentful child who hates/disowns their parents more commonplace in than a Trump diehard accepting he’s done, anything wrong ever.

Your general point I agree with i just don’t think it really extends to the parent/child relationship.




I'd agree that is the case with "good" parenting, I just don't think it is that common. More specifically that even when it is the case, many times there is an express asterisk that the rest of the world isn't like that and not to expect to change that.

The "Trump diehard" is just a different brand of the "Democrat/Republican diehard" (EDIT: or corporate diehards) imo.

I think they’re slightly distinct, perhaps not. Swamp-draining Trump is basically pardoning anyone who was guilty of political corruption and his base doesn’t care. I think that goes beyond partisanship and into weird territories.

I think the flagrancy of how this goes against his previous utterances and posturing and how it seemingly doesn’t matter at all is something worse.

Maybe there is some Democrat equivalent here, not seeing it currently.

As much as I agree with your position that centrist Democrats are barely distinguishable from their shitness from Trump, I don’t think even the centrist types can be this openly blatant without political consequence.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-20 01:25:46
February 20 2020 01:23 GMT
#42495
I think a part of what Trump diehards are showing us is that actually quite a lot of people just don't care about norms, laws and procedure, or at least care about it way way less than professional journalist and scholars were led to believe and also that there's in fact no constitutional divine strike that will smite the president when he break the law.
And there's certainly something to be said about how norms and constitutional laws allowed Congress to be transformed into somewhat of an empty void of procedural limbo probably didn't help with the anti-norms sentiment.

Although I'm somewhat reluctant about calling Trump "autocratic", he's certainly on the anti-liberal side and certainly a democratic cheaters, but IDK if I'd call someone who has not implement any autocratic policy an autocrat. (I mean he has done some terrible policy don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure they were quite autocratic) To me he's more like a Berlusconi type of character.

But I guess it's potato patato.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23928 Posts
February 20 2020 01:28 GMT
#42496
On February 20 2020 10:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 09:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 09:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 09:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 20 2020 07:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:39 Simberto wrote:
On February 20 2020 06:07 Gorsameth wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 20 2020 05:12 Nouar wrote:
A fun little tidbit from an english court : Assange's attorney registered a document (accepted by the court) that assesses that, through Rohrabacher, Trump offered a pardon to Assange if he denied that Russia was involved in the DNC hack.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

Man, if there is a paper trail for that :-D
(no, just joking, Trump would dump Rohrabacher, known russian lover, by saying he doesn't know him and never talked to him. So nothing would happen, as there's a fuse, like always with Trump.)


edit : oh well, it didn't take long, I didn't read the english version of the article enough it seems (the french ones didn't mention that)

[quote]


This would be monumentally gigantic, right?

If the white house tries to convince Assange to lie about Russian involvement, to me that says the white house knew of russian involvement.
As gigantic as the President trying to pressure a foreign country into investigating the son of a political rival...

Also without any real evidence its a he said, she said between Kelly and Rohrabacher.


Yeah, that is basically the problem with this.

Trump supporters don't care about any of his scandals. There could be a video of Trump shooting a pregnant women in the middle of the street, and then afterwards talking about how much fun it is to randomly shoot people, and that there really wasn't any other reason to shoot her.

And his cult would still either manage to never hear of it, or just accept it and assume that there was a good reason to shoot her.

It is really scary how many people are so desperate to submit to an authoritarian that they even accept Trump in that role. It is just crazy.


We're trained to submit to authoritarians in the home, at school, and in the workplace. Why would we not act that way politically?

It’s a bit of a stretch to extend that to the home and to a degree school IMO. Granted I had good parents and teachers.

That aside people tend to eventually resent figures who abuse their power and are hypocrites, even if they’re our parents. If women didn’t have daddy issues I’d have no romantic life whatsoever. Your teacher can be a hardass but if their discipline is fair and, crucially if they know how to teach their subject, you tend to accept that, even if just retrospectively.

There’s a segment of Trump’s base who more resemble domestic abuse victims, ‘he’s great and didn’t do this you just don’t understand’ kind of mentality.

For the record, although I imagine it’s not necessary as this is a good thread for understand intent and occasional hyperbole, I don’t mean to demean the horrendous experiences that domestic abuse victims undergo.


It's not just Trump. Bloomberg surging in the Democratic party speaks to the same trend.

Resentment isn't resistance unfortunately. For some the former manifests as the latter, but most people just push it downhill.

The authoritarian workplace just seeps into the home and school acts as both for many of the people there. The alienation and oppression we feel is pushed onto the next person based on snap judgments on weakness and proximity. In the workplace we see it from boss down, then the person leaves work and pushes it onto partners and kids. Then the partners and kids push it onto the weakest among them.

The same pattern takes place at schools from administrators, to principals, to teachers, to students, then among themselves, then to animals and inanimate objects.

It isn't entirely universal, in that people interrupt the chain in a variety of ways, but it looms over everything in a way that I don't find people following the same pattern politically as an aberration. At least that's how I see it.

Well my main point was more that for whatever reason I find a resentful child who hates/disowns their parents more commonplace in than a Trump diehard accepting he’s done, anything wrong ever.

Your general point I agree with i just don’t think it really extends to the parent/child relationship.




I'd agree that is the case with "good" parenting, I just don't think it is that common. More specifically that even when it is the case, many times there is an express asterisk that the rest of the world isn't like that and not to expect to change that.

The "Trump diehard" is just a different brand of the "Democrat/Republican diehard" (EDIT: or corporate diehards) imo.

I think they’re slightly distinct, perhaps not. Swamp-draining Trump is basically pardoning anyone who was guilty of political corruption and his base doesn’t care. I think that goes beyond partisanship and into weird territories.

I think the flagrancy of how this goes against his previous utterances and posturing and how it seemingly doesn’t matter at all is something worse.

Maybe there is some Democrat equivalent here, not seeing it currently.

As much as I agree with your position that centrist Democrats are barely distinguishable from their shitness from Trump, I don’t think even the centrist types can be this openly blatant without political consequence.


I think it's better demonstrated by Democrats fidelity to negative peace than any individual. I think Trump stretches the limits in ways we aren't used to. Democrats will accept 4 more years of Trump over forcibly removing him so long as there's a shred of institutional justification as has happened with the Russia and Ukraine fiascoes.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26742 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-20 01:32:02
February 20 2020 01:30 GMT
#42497
On February 20 2020 10:23 Nakajin wrote:
I think a part of what Trump diehards are showing us is that actually quite a lot of people just don't care about norms, laws and procedure, or at least care about it way way less than professional journalist and scholars were led to believe and also that there's in fact no constitutional divine strike that will smite the president when he break the law.
And there's certainly something to be said about how norms and constitutional laws allowed Congress to be transformed into somewhat of an empty void of procedural limbo probably didn't help with the anti-norms sentiment.

Although I'm somewhat reluctant about calling Trump "autocratic", he's certainly on the anti-liberal side and certainly a democratic cheaters, but IDK if I'd call someone who has not implement any autocratic policy an autocrat. (I mean he has done some terrible policy don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure they were quite autocratic) To me he's more like a Berlusconi type of character.

But I guess it's potato patato.

He’s shown almost nothing to paint him as anything other than an autocrat. If not in action, when he’s constrained then at least in desire. And also plenty of actions.

I’m not seeing many stretches there, it is what it is.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
February 20 2020 01:38 GMT
#42498
On February 20 2020 10:30 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2020 10:23 Nakajin wrote:
I think a part of what Trump diehards are showing us is that actually quite a lot of people just don't care about norms, laws and procedure, or at least care about it way way less than professional journalist and scholars were led to believe and also that there's in fact no constitutional divine strike that will smite the president when he break the law.
And there's certainly something to be said about how norms and constitutional laws allowed Congress to be transformed into somewhat of an empty void of procedural limbo probably didn't help with the anti-norms sentiment.

Although I'm somewhat reluctant about calling Trump "autocratic", he's certainly on the anti-liberal side and certainly a democratic cheaters, but IDK if I'd call someone who has not implement any autocratic policy an autocrat. (I mean he has done some terrible policy don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure they were quite autocratic) To me he's more like a Berlusconi type of character.

But I guess it's potato patato.

He’s shown almost nothing to paint him as anything other than an autocrat. If not in action, when he’s constrained then at least in desire. And also plenty of actions.

I’m not seeing many stretches there, it is what it is.


Y'a no, I was just saying he didn't do something akin to let's say changing the constitution, using the military within the country or arresting his political opponent.... oh wait nvm he did just try that last one, y'a ok screw that autocrat it is lol.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23928 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-20 02:05:01
February 20 2020 02:02 GMT
#42499
Debate time

www.nbcnews.com

Sanders comes out swinging against Bloomberg and Bloomberg swings back (and misses imo).

Warren's next to Bloomberg and just bodied Bloomberg
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-20 02:07:23
February 20 2020 02:07 GMT
#42500
Bloomberg coming with the good old republican ' Sanders will make people lose the healthcare plans they love'

Warren going HAM against Bloomberg lol
Neosteel Enthusiast
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