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On January 11 2020 01:09 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2020 22:31 Nebuchad wrote:On January 10 2020 21:56 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On January 10 2020 00:24 Xxio wrote:On January 09 2020 23:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It's probably more that every now and then GH and mini GH would explode together in massive amounts of volume of posting against one guy. Rather uncomfortable to see. Just witness the conversation with SC2Ren a few pages back. At some point there was "the enemy" and "did you not udnerstand the point of the excercise?". It's not opinions but how it is done. I read the economist. Now label me as right winger for all the good that'll do. I always thought of The Economist as left wing, neoliberal. Breitbart, Gatestone, Zero Hedge, Spectator are right wing, imo. Fox is neocon (but Tucker isn't). AP and Reuters are center. Curious where everyone else would place outlets on the spectrum. At this point you have to ask and answer what is left wing and what is right wing. I don't consider them useful labels at all, but are currently used as calls to evoke tribalism both as a rallying call and as an other to rise against. Most of what you listed isn't isn't right wing media, as they peddle in lies and conspiracies, they are not a media outlet. Originally leftwing is what fights against the power structures and the social hierarchies of a society, rightwing is what maintains and/or reinforces those. So in a communist country, the communists are rightwing and free market capitalists would be leftwing? I realize that it's not your definitions, but it seems odd and probably another good reason why we should stay away from a left-right poles and talk more about ideologies: socialist, capitalist, liberal, progressive, conservative. And especially try to separate liberal from progressive (which are often mistaken for each other in America). Show nested quote +On January 10 2020 23:42 GreenHorizons wrote:About 3/4's of the voting public can't identify Iran on a map according to a new morning consult poll. Twenty-eight percent of registered voters were able to accurately label Iran on a map of the Middle East region, according to new Morning Consult/Politico polling conducted Jan. 4-5, before the Iranian military fired missiles at two bases in Iraq housing U.S. troops. Twenty-three percent could identify the country on a larger, also unlabeled, global map. Eight percent of voters thought Iran was Iraq on the smaller map. We really need to pass a law that says we can't drop a bomb anywhere a super-majority of voters can't find on a map. I don't think it'll actually stop the US bombing people around the world, but at least we won't look so unforgivably stupid about it. The map is both sad and terrifying. + Show Spoiler +morningconsult.com So we should make a rule that you shouldn't be able to protest against military action if you can't correctly identify the country on a map? Yeah, this is one of those weird meaningless "gotchas".
I find it strange it's a "gotcha" to be able to identify on a map where the people one's government wants to kill are at the national level.
I support critical pedagogy so the presumption is that if one wants to take a position on what to do about another nation (like bomb or protest military action against them), they can identify their geographical position as part of their reasoning.
I agree with Wombat there are better questions, in part because it should be a given that we don't bomb places we can't collectively find on a map.
I think it'd be a stupid rule, but if it also applied to the bombing I'd take it.
EDIT: As an example, "do you believe X is a threat" or whatever takes on different context when you recognize a lot of the people answering "yes" have no idea where (let alone what) the "threat" is.
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Northern Ireland24488 Posts
That’s not a satirical article?
Besides the ramblings he’s complained about NATO and multilateral institutions in general pretty frequently, now he wants to expand it?
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On January 11 2020 01:43 Wombat_NI wrote:
That’s not a satirical article?
Besides the ramblings he’s complained about NATO and multilateral institutions in general pretty frequently, now he wants to expand it? Read the rest and it makes sense. He wants to pull America out of the Middle-East and leave NATO to solve it without them.
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To be honest... Trump may be crazy and can't keep a straight position.... but at first glance I like this idea a lot
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On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless.
Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either.
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On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either.
Certainly strengthens Trump's argument for their neighbors to be part of NATO. Probably never convince the people that think it's in Australia though, or maybe they'd be the easiest to convince?
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On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either.
The American people aren't influencing the world directly, they're only electing an American government that's supposed to know where Iran is. It's perfectly fine that some of them don't know how to find Iran on the map, spell "Pyongyang" or build a nuclear bomb.
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On January 11 2020 02:07 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. The American people aren't influencing the world directly, they're only electing an American government that's supposed to know where Iran is. It's perfectly fine that some of them don't know how to find Iran on the map, spell "Pyongyang" or build a nuclear bomb.
Yup, certainly no way they'd elect someone who also didn't know much of anything about the rest of the world 
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On January 11 2020 02:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 02:07 Sent. wrote:On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. The American people aren't influencing the world directly, they're only electing an American government that's supposed to know where Iran is. It's perfectly fine that some of them don't know how to find Iran on the map, spell "Pyongyang" or build a nuclear bomb. Yup, certainly no way they'd elect someone who also didn't know much of anything about the rest of the world
Key word "supposed " .
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On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either.
I can describe political and cultural differences between a wide variety of countries in Europe. I don't know which shape is which on a map, but I know the general'ish of where they are. I am not going to pretend knowing which shape is which on a map is more important than the culture/military/history/economy/politics of a country.
This is more so an expression of my other issues with education as a whole. We didn't need to learn cursive or weird ways of doing math using visual representations. There's a bunch of stupid bullshit people learn and it is a waste of time. I deeply respect Europe and the Middle East, but I express my respect through knowledge of their lives not memorizing a map.
If I find myself in a position where memorizing a map is important for how I interact with Europe, I will learn it. Until then, I am making sure not to. Anything I learn incidentally is fine, but taking the time to memorize it is silly. It's the same reason I am mostly familiar with the states around Oregon but have no fucking clue what is going on in the Northeast of a US map.
I am a chemist and I know an incredibly small part of the periodic table. I only know the atomic weight of certain atoms because of synthesis I ran while conducting research. I don't remember the ones I don't work with anymore.
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On January 11 2020 01:09 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2020 22:31 Nebuchad wrote:On January 10 2020 21:56 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On January 10 2020 00:24 Xxio wrote:On January 09 2020 23:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It's probably more that every now and then GH and mini GH would explode together in massive amounts of volume of posting against one guy. Rather uncomfortable to see. Just witness the conversation with SC2Ren a few pages back. At some point there was "the enemy" and "did you not udnerstand the point of the excercise?". It's not opinions but how it is done. I read the economist. Now label me as right winger for all the good that'll do. I always thought of The Economist as left wing, neoliberal. Breitbart, Gatestone, Zero Hedge, Spectator are right wing, imo. Fox is neocon (but Tucker isn't). AP and Reuters are center. Curious where everyone else would place outlets on the spectrum. At this point you have to ask and answer what is left wing and what is right wing. I don't consider them useful labels at all, but are currently used as calls to evoke tribalism both as a rallying call and as an other to rise against. Most of what you listed isn't isn't right wing media, as they peddle in lies and conspiracies, they are not a media outlet. Originally leftwing is what fights against the power structures and the social hierarchies of a society, rightwing is what maintains and/or reinforces those. So in a communist country, the communists are rightwing and free market capitalists would be leftwing? I realize that it's not your definitions, but it seems odd and probably another good reason why we should stay away from a left-right poles and talk more about ideologies: socialist, capitalist, liberal, progressive, conservative. And especially try to separate liberal from progressive (which are often mistaken for each other in America).
If by communist you mean something like the USSR then I think there could be an argument for it. It depends what you want with your free market, as capitalism doesn't tend to fight against hierarchies. But a social-democratic position like the one you defended earlier could be argued to be leftwing as soon as it was clear that the USSR was never on its way to use its state monopoly to give more power to workers.
If you meant communist in the marxist sense then no.
In the case of the USSR I would agree with you that the left-right axis isn't particularly helpful. This is where I would introduce three axis instead of just left right, where I'd go economical (left being socialism, right being capitalism), societal (forward being socially liberal, backward being socially conservative) and style of governance (up being dictatorial, down being anarchist).
Shortcuts are often made because some combinations of positions are incoherent. It makes little sense to be a socially conservative socialist, or an anarchist-capitalist. But as a rule we don't necessarily analyze our beliefs very efficiently so it's not rare that we end up with incoherent beliefs.
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On January 11 2020 02:13 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. I can describe political and cultural differences between a wide variety of countries in Europe. I don't know which shape is which on a map, but I know the general'ish of where they are. I am not going to pretend knowing which shape is which on a map is more important than the culture/military/history/economy/politics of a country. This is more so an expression of my other issues with education as a whole. We didn't need to learn cursive or weird ways of doing math using visual representations. There's a bunch of stupid bullshit people learn and it is a waste of time. I deeply respect Europe and the Middle East, but I express my respect through knowledge of their lives not memorizing a map. If I find myself in a position where memorizing a map is important for how I interact with Europe, I will learn it. Until then, I am making sure not to. Anything I learn incidentally is fine, but taking the time to memorize it is silly. It's the same reason I am mostly familiar with the states around Oregon but have no fucking clue what is going on in the Northeast of a US map. I am a chemist and I know an incredibly small part of the periodic table. I only know the atomic weight of certain atoms because of synthesis I ran while conducting research. I don't remember the ones I don't work with anymore.
And for you that is fine, because you know these things and would understand where the middle east is. The people clicking on Europe do not. Nor do they have any other idea of Iran except that evil terrorists live there and those terrorists are muslims. And if that is the only thing you know about Iran, it's completely okay to blow up their Generals or put sanctions on them if your government tells you that is the right thing to do. And making light of that attitude triggers me because you should hold your government way more responsible to the illegal wars they are fighting.
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On January 11 2020 02:07 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. The American people aren't influencing the world directly, they're only electing an American government that's supposed to know where Iran is. It's perfectly fine that some of them don't know how to find Iran on the map, spell "Pyongyang" or build a nuclear bomb.
Yes they are. Every country get the government it deserves. So if Americans are too uneducated to realize the things that Trump and also Obama did were war crimes, they will continue to elect people like Trump or not kick him out of office.
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On January 11 2020 02:24 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 02:13 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. I can describe political and cultural differences between a wide variety of countries in Europe. I don't know which shape is which on a map, but I know the general'ish of where they are. I am not going to pretend knowing which shape is which on a map is more important than the culture/military/history/economy/politics of a country. This is more so an expression of my other issues with education as a whole. We didn't need to learn cursive or weird ways of doing math using visual representations. There's a bunch of stupid bullshit people learn and it is a waste of time. I deeply respect Europe and the Middle East, but I express my respect through knowledge of their lives not memorizing a map. If I find myself in a position where memorizing a map is important for how I interact with Europe, I will learn it. Until then, I am making sure not to. Anything I learn incidentally is fine, but taking the time to memorize it is silly. It's the same reason I am mostly familiar with the states around Oregon but have no fucking clue what is going on in the Northeast of a US map. I am a chemist and I know an incredibly small part of the periodic table. I only know the atomic weight of certain atoms because of synthesis I ran while conducting research. I don't remember the ones I don't work with anymore. And for you that is fine, because you know these things and would understand where the middle east is. The people clicking on Europe do not. Nor do they have any other idea of Iran except that evil terrorists live there and those terrorists are muslims. And if that is the only thing you know about Iran, it's completely okay to blow up their Generals or put sanctions on them if your government tells you that is the right thing to do. And making light of that attitude triggers me because you should hold your government way more responsible to the illegal wars they are fighting.
I get what you're saying and I think you're right. For whatever it is worth, my philosophy on not learning cursive and labeling maps means people should spend more time learning about relevant things like culture and what exactly other countries do. So while I advocate against maps, I advocate FOR culture etc
What makes Germany not France? People should learn that rather than "well France is this shape whereas Germany is this other shape"
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I doubt that which was passed on as communism by the doers was what the makers had in mind which was a way to escape feudalism.
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On January 11 2020 02:37 Vivax wrote:
I doubt that which was passed on as communism by the doers was what the makers had in mind which was a way to escape feudalism.
I don't have a clue what you mean by this
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So, Pelosi is sending the impeachment to Senate next week (well, holding a vote to appoint managers and transmit the articles). Marianne Williamson is also ending her bid for presidency (I had honestly forgotten about her).
Sanctions have also been put on Iran, full list is available
Have sanctions even once, brought peace ? On the contrary, they keep the country as an enemy. A poor enemy, with even more hate towards the country that passes the sanctions. Not towards their own government.
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On January 11 2020 02:39 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 02:37 Vivax wrote:
I doubt that which was passed on as communism by the doers was what the makers had in mind which was a way to escape feudalism. I don't have a clue what you mean by this
That so far communists have been autocratic countries with central economy planning.
And then everyone says "look that's communism".
How can it be if it's still feudal? Or call it hierarchic.
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On January 11 2020 02:13 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2020 01:54 Broetchenholer wrote:On January 11 2020 01:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Yeah I could probably label at most 40 states on a US map because I can't bring myself to give a shit. I'm a bit weird in that way though and go out of my way to not learn things if I think its meaningless. Yes, the meaninglessness of pointing to Europe when you are asked where Iran is. I am not saying everyone needs to know where exactly Iran is but maybe have half your population hit the middle east. Could you please improve your average knowledge of the rest of the world. The American people are influencing the world very negatively by this kind of ignorance because they allow their politicians to fuck with other nations by not giving enough shits. Not you personally obviously, but making light of such ignorance does not help either. I can describe political and cultural differences between a wide variety of countries in Europe. I don't know which shape is which on a map, but I know the general'ish of where they are. I am not going to pretend knowing which shape is which on a map is more important than the culture/military/history/economy/politics of a country. This is more so an expression of my other issues with education as a whole. We didn't need to learn cursive or weird ways of doing math using visual representations. There's a bunch of stupid bullshit people learn and it is a waste of time. I deeply respect Europe and the Middle East, but I express my respect through knowledge of their lives not memorizing a map. If I find myself in a position where memorizing a map is important for how I interact with Europe, I will learn it. Until then, I am making sure not to. Anything I learn incidentally is fine, but taking the time to memorize it is silly. It's the same reason I am mostly familiar with the states around Oregon but have no fucking clue what is going on in the Northeast of a US map. I am a chemist and I know an incredibly small part of the periodic table. I only know the atomic weight of certain atoms because of synthesis I ran while conducting research. I don't remember the ones I don't work with anymore.
Knowledge is a web. The more possible points of attachment you have the better insights you might generate. Knowing which countries border which countries, and something of their geopolitical history, helps contextualize and cement other information about “culture/military ...” The more detailed the web the easier it is to fill in the missing gaps. Like a jigsaw puzzle. You can’t possibly pick and choose what is important beforehand, because you don’t know what the whole web looks like.
STEM people in particular have a habit of treating knowledge as discrete (especially knowledge outside their purview), rather than seeing meaning/value as an intensive (ie not extensive) quality of each bit of information that depends on its connectivity to other information. Connectivity turns up the dial on richness.
But that’s just, like, my opinion man.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-People-Identifying-Iran-on-world-map-scaled.png)
