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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1591

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 27 2019 01:19 GMT
#31801
Warren, with the strategy of all the clapping soundbite lines, all the time
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23091 Posts
June 27 2019 01:21 GMT
#31802
On June 27 2019 10:18 xDaunt wrote:
Warren again, huh? Looks like the fix is in.


If polling dictated time she should get 10x more than pretty much everyone but Beto and Booker
On June 27 2019 10:19 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:12 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:09 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:04 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:50 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:46 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 08:45 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:37 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:09 Doodsmack wrote:
Here's Trump saying that hes glad McCain is dead, and he hopes McCain went to hell. I'm confused why this isn't garnering headlines.



probably because that’s not what he said. he did not say he “hoped” mccain was in hell. we just had someone in this thread explicitly wish that Duncan Hunter fall into a volcano and now you are criticizing Trump for being “glad that [McCain is] gone.” it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead per se


I agree, the tweet did not have Trump saying that he hoped mccain, or anyone, was in hell (even though he did choose to explicitly mention the possibility).

Trump is an elected representative with a huge amount of power and influence, not a semi-anonymous person ranting on a web forum. It's a LITTLE different when he says something expressing happiness at someone's death.

I agree, it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead, in general. And it can even be possible to communicate this. What is emphatically not possible is that a tweet that basically reads They're gone. Dead. Possibly to hell. I'm so glad they're gone is not communicating happiness at the death thing. The whole death bit, and deliberate choice to mention the hell possibility, removes the possibility entirely. A kid who has just processed why their goldfish mysteriously changed shape and colour one morning could figure out that the death and happiness bits of the tweet were connected.
Unless you are just mentioning that last sentence of possibility for lulz. Like I'm sure Trump mentioned the less green pastures for lulz.

The whole pretending context doesn't matter shtick gets old really fast, and is not a good look.


ah well i hope you guys remember this conversation if Trump suddenly dies in office

“i’m glad he is gone good riddance . . . what? of course death is a tragedy”

May I refer you to my comments following the death of Scalia? I said I was glad he was gone. If you'd like clarification over whether I'd rather he were dead than stayed on the Supreme Court the answer is yes. If Trump left office I'd be glad. If it's due to his syphilis finally finishing him off, still glad.


well if you were of the opinion that it’s perfectly fine to be happy an opponent is dead all along why didn’t you say so?

Because for whatever reason you decided to argue about how it was totally ambiguous to be glad that the dead guy was gone and that even though he was only gone because he died of cancer that doesn't mean you were glad that he died of cancer, only that you're glad that something (brain cancer) took him.

The Pope didn't buy that shit when Henry II tried it and I won't buy it now.


i prefer to think of my position as an ethically nuanced one rather than the ethical tribalism or nihilism you seem to be espousing

Do I come across as especially tribal? I wouldn't consider myself a fan of either US party, it's just I only have so much anger at political stupidity to give and the current administration is sucking it all out of me. You'll find plenty of attacks on Corbyn by me in the UK topic though and he's far left of the Democrats. You'll also note that I don't stand behind members of the tribe, such as advocating that if Omar defrauded the government she should resign.


I think you're just identifying with the wrong tribe. All that fits neatly into the neoliberal tribe.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:21 GMT
#31803
On June 27 2019 10:19 Danglars wrote:
Warren, with the strategy of all the clapping soundbite lines, all the time

Well, that’s how the game is played. You need the good 10-30 second sound bites. Voters are too stupid to digest long form answers.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4718 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 01:22:53
June 27 2019 01:22 GMT
#31804
Warren's plan blitz was just an ego appeal to Democrats and the media in the first place. Those puff peices were perfectly timed for the pre-debate bump. Now she "deserves" all the time.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:23 GMT
#31805
Everyone who got caught up in Betomania should be fucking embarrassed. This guy is such a dope.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:24 GMT
#31806
Bravo, moderators. You lost control of the debate.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 27 2019 01:25 GMT
#31807
Inslee: First blood on Beto
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23091 Posts
June 27 2019 01:25 GMT
#31808
They should do Debates like a combination of Jeopardy and chess.

1. Give everyone on stage equal time
2. Give everyone a signaler to "buzz in"
3. Moderators (or producers) have the time stop button
4. Ask a question, anyone that wants to use their time on it can buzz in.
5. When you're out of time, your mic is muted.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
June 27 2019 01:27 GMT
#31809
On June 27 2019 10:25 Danglars wrote:
Inslee: First blood on Beto


What happened? I can't watch

Something witty
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:28 GMT
#31810
That argument about Medicare having lower overhead than insurance companies is such bullshit. The reason why it seems lower is that Medicare pays out far more in benefits as a consequence of its risk pool (expensive old and dying people).
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
June 27 2019 01:29 GMT
#31811
On June 27 2019 10:19 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:12 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:09 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:04 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:50 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:46 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 08:45 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:37 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:09 Doodsmack wrote:
Here's Trump saying that hes glad McCain is dead, and he hopes McCain went to hell. I'm confused why this isn't garnering headlines.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1143920655999655936


probably because that’s not what he said. he did not say he “hoped” mccain was in hell. we just had someone in this thread explicitly wish that Duncan Hunter fall into a volcano and now you are criticizing Trump for being “glad that [McCain is] gone.” it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead per se


I agree, the tweet did not have Trump saying that he hoped mccain, or anyone, was in hell (even though he did choose to explicitly mention the possibility).

Trump is an elected representative with a huge amount of power and influence, not a semi-anonymous person ranting on a web forum. It's a LITTLE different when he says something expressing happiness at someone's death.

I agree, it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead, in general. And it can even be possible to communicate this. What is emphatically not possible is that a tweet that basically reads They're gone. Dead. Possibly to hell. I'm so glad they're gone is not communicating happiness at the death thing. The whole death bit, and deliberate choice to mention the hell possibility, removes the possibility entirely. A kid who has just processed why their goldfish mysteriously changed shape and colour one morning could figure out that the death and happiness bits of the tweet were connected.
Unless you are just mentioning that last sentence of possibility for lulz. Like I'm sure Trump mentioned the less green pastures for lulz.

The whole pretending context doesn't matter shtick gets old really fast, and is not a good look.


ah well i hope you guys remember this conversation if Trump suddenly dies in office

“i’m glad he is gone good riddance . . . what? of course death is a tragedy”

May I refer you to my comments following the death of Scalia? I said I was glad he was gone. If you'd like clarification over whether I'd rather he were dead than stayed on the Supreme Court the answer is yes. If Trump left office I'd be glad. If it's due to his syphilis finally finishing him off, still glad.


well if you were of the opinion that it’s perfectly fine to be happy an opponent is dead all along why didn’t you say so?

Because for whatever reason you decided to argue about how it was totally ambiguous to be glad that the dead guy was gone and that even though he was only gone because he died of cancer that doesn't mean you were glad that he died of cancer, only that you're glad that something (brain cancer) took him.

The Pope didn't buy that shit when Henry II tried it and I won't buy it now.


i prefer to think of my position as an ethically nuanced one rather than the ethical tribalism or nihilism you seem to be espousing

Do I come across as especially tribal? I wouldn't consider myself a fan of either US party, it's just I only have so much anger at political stupidity to give and the current administration is sucking it all out of me. You'll find plenty of attacks on Corbyn by me in the UK topic though and he's far left of the Democrats. You'll also note that I don't stand behind members of the tribe, such as advocating that if Omar defrauded the government she should resign.


i meant more in the sense of “people you like” rather than “people who self-identify as a group”

but hey if you think trump is perfectly fine in expressing his gladness that his enemies are gone (some of them being dead) that’s fine with me, even if i have different reasons for thinking so. further discussion would take us too far afield
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:30 GMT
#31812
Abortion is “reproductive justice?” Are you high, Castro?
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8967 Posts
June 27 2019 01:30 GMT
#31813
On June 27 2019 10:27 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:25 Danglars wrote:
Inslee: First blood on Beto


What happened? I can't watch


It's streaming live on Youtube.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23091 Posts
June 27 2019 01:31 GMT
#31814
On June 27 2019 10:28 xDaunt wrote:
That argument about Medicare having lower overhead than insurance companies is such bullshit. The reason why it seems lower is that Medicare pays out far more in benefits as a consequence of its risk pool (expensive old and dying people).


The idea that extracting profit is cheaper than simply paying a living wage takes mathematical wizardry I'm not familiar with?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
June 27 2019 01:31 GMT
#31815
On June 27 2019 10:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:27 IyMoon wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:25 Danglars wrote:
Inslee: First blood on Beto


What happened? I can't watch


It's streaming live on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ6MrDO0kgY


I'm out at an event for a retiring co worker. I'm just checking updates on down moments
Something witty
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2019 01:31 GMT
#31816
Ooo, Warren with the smart dodge on abortion limits. She has clearly done more focus group testing than the other candidates.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4718 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 01:32:53
June 27 2019 01:32 GMT
#31817
Good on the moderators for using the A word, not the cowardly "reproductive."

edit: and Warren kept her head about her
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 27 2019 01:32 GMT
#31818
On June 27 2019 10:27 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:25 Danglars wrote:
Inslee: First blood on Beto


What happened? I can't watch


I was only half listening to the style of speech missed that it was actually Bill De Blasio. He took first jab in crosstalk, first of any crosstalk in debate.

Would you replace private insurance?
Beto: No. The choice is fundamental to our ability
Bill de Blasio: Congressman O'Rourke ... Congressman O'Rourke ... private insurance is not working for tens of millions of Americans when you talk about copays, deductibles,
[Jumbled Crosstalk]
Delaney spoke up in Beto's defense
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8967 Posts
June 27 2019 01:34 GMT
#31819
On June 27 2019 10:31 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:27 IyMoon wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:25 Danglars wrote:
Inslee: First blood on Beto


What happened? I can't watch


It's streaming live on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ6MrDO0kgY


I'm out at an event for a retiring co worker. I'm just checking updates on down moments

Ah. Nothing much is happening. They got pretty direct towards each other, questioning their stances.

Warren, Booker, Beto getting the bulk of the time. Gabbard and other really need to force themselves out there and get more words in.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42478 Posts
June 27 2019 01:34 GMT
#31820
On June 27 2019 10:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:18 xDaunt wrote:
Warren again, huh? Looks like the fix is in.


If polling dictated time she should get 10x more than pretty much everyone but Beto and Booker
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 10:19 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:12 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:09 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 10:04 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:50 KwarK wrote:
On June 27 2019 09:46 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 08:45 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:37 IgnE wrote:
On June 27 2019 02:09 Doodsmack wrote:
Here's Trump saying that hes glad McCain is dead, and he hopes McCain went to hell. I'm confused why this isn't garnering headlines.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1143920655999655936


probably because that’s not what he said. he did not say he “hoped” mccain was in hell. we just had someone in this thread explicitly wish that Duncan Hunter fall into a volcano and now you are criticizing Trump for being “glad that [McCain is] gone.” it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead per se


I agree, the tweet did not have Trump saying that he hoped mccain, or anyone, was in hell (even though he did choose to explicitly mention the possibility).

Trump is an elected representative with a huge amount of power and influence, not a semi-anonymous person ranting on a web forum. It's a LITTLE different when he says something expressing happiness at someone's death.

I agree, it is possible to be glad someone is gone without being glad they are dead, in general. And it can even be possible to communicate this. What is emphatically not possible is that a tweet that basically reads They're gone. Dead. Possibly to hell. I'm so glad they're gone is not communicating happiness at the death thing. The whole death bit, and deliberate choice to mention the hell possibility, removes the possibility entirely. A kid who has just processed why their goldfish mysteriously changed shape and colour one morning could figure out that the death and happiness bits of the tweet were connected.
Unless you are just mentioning that last sentence of possibility for lulz. Like I'm sure Trump mentioned the less green pastures for lulz.

The whole pretending context doesn't matter shtick gets old really fast, and is not a good look.


ah well i hope you guys remember this conversation if Trump suddenly dies in office

“i’m glad he is gone good riddance . . . what? of course death is a tragedy”

May I refer you to my comments following the death of Scalia? I said I was glad he was gone. If you'd like clarification over whether I'd rather he were dead than stayed on the Supreme Court the answer is yes. If Trump left office I'd be glad. If it's due to his syphilis finally finishing him off, still glad.


well if you were of the opinion that it’s perfectly fine to be happy an opponent is dead all along why didn’t you say so?

Because for whatever reason you decided to argue about how it was totally ambiguous to be glad that the dead guy was gone and that even though he was only gone because he died of cancer that doesn't mean you were glad that he died of cancer, only that you're glad that something (brain cancer) took him.

The Pope didn't buy that shit when Henry II tried it and I won't buy it now.


i prefer to think of my position as an ethically nuanced one rather than the ethical tribalism or nihilism you seem to be espousing

Do I come across as especially tribal? I wouldn't consider myself a fan of either US party, it's just I only have so much anger at political stupidity to give and the current administration is sucking it all out of me. You'll find plenty of attacks on Corbyn by me in the UK topic though and he's far left of the Democrats. You'll also note that I don't stand behind members of the tribe, such as advocating that if Omar defrauded the government she should resign.


I think you're just identifying with the wrong tribe. All that fits neatly into the neoliberal tribe.

I was a neoliberal growing up for sure. Member of the UK Conservative Party, viewed liberalization of the markets as being equivalent to greater efficiency (I still do think that but efficiency isn't everything), very skeptical about Labour's mismanagement of the economy etc. But the British kind of neoliberal where of course education, healthcare, social housing, and so forth are necessary in order to make sure that everyone has the chance to optimally function in a fair and just capitalist market.

I still identify pretty strongly with a lot of the beliefs. The reason I brought up the Federal minimum wage earlier is because the US is effectively a monetary union of some very different economies. There isn't a single American economy, it's more like the EU where there are dramatic differences between living expenses, salaries, skills, culture, and so forth. Part of the problem many EU countries are facing is that without control over their own monetary policy they cannot effectively devalue their labour to bring in investment. As Greece becomes poorer it does not make Greece more attractive, it makes the Eurozone as a whole (and therefore German exports) more competitive. The same is fucking over Appalachia, it's stuck in a monetary union with California when the two regions could not be more different.

But I've also become extremely jaded to a lot of the neoliberal fairytales. The rising tide does not lift all boats, wealth does not trickle down, international intervention is never easy or clean, and corporations will always steal from the workers, the public, and the future if they think they can get away with it.

Politics as a whole just pisses me off these days. Especially because we never get to argue about any of the stuff that's actually nuanced because we're too busy trying to decide if there's really any need to delouse the children in our preteen concentration camp.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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