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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1116

Forum Index > General Forum
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 13 2019 01:09 GMT
#22301
McConnell is going to put the Green New deal to a vote in the senate in the hopes of diving a wedge between the centrists and the left leaning democrats. And fund a metric to. Of attack ads.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 13 2019 01:11 GMT
#22302
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 13 2019 01:14 GMT
#22303
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13926 Posts
February 13 2019 01:21 GMT
#22304
The green new deal is an easy punching bag for the right. If California can't get the high speed rail line from san deigo to LA then there isn't much hope for the more modest rail lines on the east coast and the midwest.

However, it can be a great "aspirational" target for the left to work towards. AOC should firmly stay behind it or it has no chance to exist in any form.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 13 2019 01:27 GMT
#22305
It is all about messaging. If AOC gets out there and explains why McConnel sucks and why some midwestern Senator might not vote for it, the damage with the left will be minimized. The key is don’t get played.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-13 02:18:08
February 13 2019 02:17 GMT
#22306
Have all the dems go out and vote no. Have AOC go on tv and go, this bill isn't finished yet so why the hell would we vote? dems are not going to play these games. Have a united voice telling mitch to fuck off

Trump could try attacking it, but then you just counter... nobody voted for it, wtf are you talking about
Something witty
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
February 13 2019 02:20 GMT
#22307
AOC plays the media game very well. Though the Green New Deal FAQ on her website (since taken down I believe) was really bad, tbh.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 13 2019 06:04 GMT
#22308
Looks like the swamp will be fully drained here shortly. The best way to combat corruption in government is to put a billionaire whose home is made of gold in office. That way, you've eliminated the greed aspect of the politician.

As a lobbyist and lawyer, David Bernhardt fought for years on behalf of a group of California farmers to weaken Endangered Species Act protections for a finger-size fish, the delta smelt, to gain access to irrigation water.

As a top official since 2017 at the Interior Department, Mr. Bernhardt has been finishing the job: He is working to strip away the rules the farmers had hired him to oppose.

Last week President Trump said he would nominate Mr. Bernhardt to lead the Interior Department, making him the latest in a line of officials now regulating industries that once paid them to work as lobbyists. Others include Andrew Wheeler, a former coal lobbyist who now heads the Environmental Protection Agency after the resignation of Scott Pruitt amid ethics scandals. William Wehrum, the nation’s top clean-air regulator, is a lawyer whose former clients included coal-burning power plants and oil giants.

If confirmed as the next Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Bernhardt would succeed Ryan Zinke, who left in January under a cloud of ethics investigations.


www.nytimes.com



IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
February 13 2019 15:28 GMT
#22309
Trump to sign boarder deal. Even though a lot of conservatives hate this deal, they all said that he had to sign and it looks like he is listening.

The fun now goes to the house, where the dems actually have to get the votes to pass this deal. It's not popular with anyone it seems

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/13/politics/trump-border-security-deal/index.html
Something witty
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 13 2019 15:58 GMT
#22310
The grift is the Trump administration goes beyond anything I’ve ever seen or read about. It is so brazen and overt. The next two years of the House ripping into that is going to be both fun and depressing.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11822 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-13 16:58:44
February 13 2019 16:53 GMT
#22311
On February 14 2019 00:58 Plansix wrote:
The grift is the Trump administration goes beyond anything I’ve ever seen or read about. It is so brazen and overt. The next two years of the House ripping into that is going to be both fun and depressing.


Luckily you have the term limits. So you will only have him there for 6 more years unless he resigns from bad health. In a system without term limits he would just keep going until health forced him to retire.

You do not seem to have a system to remove a president from power but at least the term limits are there.

(I personally think he will fail the next election, so only 2 more years. But I thought he would fail the first election as well.)
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-13 17:01:36
February 13 2019 17:01 GMT
#22312
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15687 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-14 01:35:48
February 14 2019 01:35 GMT
#22313
Huge news: Judge agrees Paul Manafort lied about 3 of the 5 things he talked about. That means Mueller was able to provide evidence proving he lied. That means Mueller has evidence Manafort did not think would come out. That means Manafort and Trump underestimated Mueller.

Remember: Republicans were at one point saying the entire idea of the Trump Tower meeting was insane and clearly just a conspiracy theory.

REMEMBER who those people were, both on TL and in person. Consider what they say through that lens.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/manafort-mueller.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3xWb8ooqo_hWtMhYzqEJHjGyLZM0BIWMaNms6FC1Efdm8QuJe1HXVB2HY

WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, repeatedly lied to prosecutors after he agreed to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

The decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court may affect the sentence she hands out in the coming weeks to Mr. Manafort, 69. Judge Jackson said that Mr. Manafort had intentionally lied about his contacts with a Russian associate during the campaign and after Mr. Trump was elected.

Prosecutors have said that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence services. The judge also found that Mr. Manafort had lied about a payment that was routed through a pro-Trump political action committee to cover his legal bills, and about information relevant to another undisclosed investigation underway at the Justice Department.

Mr. Manafort was convicted last year of eight felonies, including tax and bank fraud. He later pleaded guilty to two additional conspiracy counts in a case before Judge Jackson, and agreed at that point to cooperate with prosecutors from the office of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

Judge Jackson ruled in Mr. Manafort’s favor on two issues. She decided that prosecutors had failed to prove their assertion that Mr. Manafort had deceived them about Mr. Kilimnik’s role in a conspiracy to obstruct justice to which Mr. Manafort pleaded guilty. And she decided that the prosecutors failed to establish that Mr. Manafort had lied about later contacts with Trump administration officials.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
February 14 2019 02:06 GMT
#22314
On February 14 2019 10:35 Mohdoo wrote:
Huge news: Judge agrees Paul Manafort lied about 3 of the 5 things he talked about. That means Mueller was able to provide evidence proving he lied. That means Mueller has evidence Manafort did not think would come out. That means Manafort and Trump underestimated Mueller.

Remember: Republicans were at one point saying the entire idea of the Trump Tower meeting was insane and clearly just a conspiracy theory.

REMEMBER who those people were, both on TL and in person. Consider what they say through that lens.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/manafort-mueller.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3xWb8ooqo_hWtMhYzqEJHjGyLZM0BIWMaNms6FC1Efdm8QuJe1HXVB2HY

Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, repeatedly lied to prosecutors after he agreed to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

The decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court may affect the sentence she hands out in the coming weeks to Mr. Manafort, 69. Judge Jackson said that Mr. Manafort had intentionally lied about his contacts with a Russian associate during the campaign and after Mr. Trump was elected.

Prosecutors have said that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence services. The judge also found that Mr. Manafort had lied about a payment that was routed through a pro-Trump political action committee to cover his legal bills, and about information relevant to another undisclosed investigation underway at the Justice Department.

Mr. Manafort was convicted last year of eight felonies, including tax and bank fraud. He later pleaded guilty to two additional conspiracy counts in a case before Judge Jackson, and agreed at that point to cooperate with prosecutors from the office of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

Judge Jackson ruled in Mr. Manafort’s favor on two issues. She decided that prosecutors had failed to prove their assertion that Mr. Manafort had deceived them about Mr. Kilimnik’s role in a conspiracy to obstruct justice to which Mr. Manafort pleaded guilty. And she decided that the prosecutors failed to establish that Mr. Manafort had lied about later contacts with Trump administration officials.


I'm having trouble following the logical chain here, what Trump Tower conspiracy and what does that have to do with this story?
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15687 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-14 02:12:48
February 14 2019 02:12 GMT
#22315
On February 14 2019 11:06 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2019 10:35 Mohdoo wrote:
Huge news: Judge agrees Paul Manafort lied about 3 of the 5 things he talked about. That means Mueller was able to provide evidence proving he lied. That means Mueller has evidence Manafort did not think would come out. That means Manafort and Trump underestimated Mueller.

Remember: Republicans were at one point saying the entire idea of the Trump Tower meeting was insane and clearly just a conspiracy theory.

REMEMBER who those people were, both on TL and in person. Consider what they say through that lens.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/manafort-mueller.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3xWb8ooqo_hWtMhYzqEJHjGyLZM0BIWMaNms6FC1Efdm8QuJe1HXVB2HY

WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, repeatedly lied to prosecutors after he agreed to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

The decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court may affect the sentence she hands out in the coming weeks to Mr. Manafort, 69. Judge Jackson said that Mr. Manafort had intentionally lied about his contacts with a Russian associate during the campaign and after Mr. Trump was elected.

Prosecutors have said that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence services. The judge also found that Mr. Manafort had lied about a payment that was routed through a pro-Trump political action committee to cover his legal bills, and about information relevant to another undisclosed investigation underway at the Justice Department.

Mr. Manafort was convicted last year of eight felonies, including tax and bank fraud. He later pleaded guilty to two additional conspiracy counts in a case before Judge Jackson, and agreed at that point to cooperate with prosecutors from the office of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

Judge Jackson ruled in Mr. Manafort’s favor on two issues. She decided that prosecutors had failed to prove their assertion that Mr. Manafort had deceived them about Mr. Kilimnik’s role in a conspiracy to obstruct justice to which Mr. Manafort pleaded guilty. And she decided that the prosecutors failed to establish that Mr. Manafort had lied about later contacts with Trump administration officials.


I'm having trouble following the logical chain here, what Trump Tower conspiracy and what does that have to do with this story?


Trump tower meeting never happened --> wait yeah it did, about adoptions --> wait no it was campaign related --> wait yeah so...shit --> [other major developments] --> Mueller proves Manafort lied about working with Russians on campaign related goals.

Remember when people kept insisting Flynn was innocent? And same for Manafort? I remember! Many people have moved the goalpost so far from where it was a year ago that they aren't considering how they would have reacted to modern news a year ago.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-14 02:24:38
February 14 2019 02:16 GMT
#22316
On February 14 2019 11:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2019 11:06 Introvert wrote:
On February 14 2019 10:35 Mohdoo wrote:
Huge news: Judge agrees Paul Manafort lied about 3 of the 5 things he talked about. That means Mueller was able to provide evidence proving he lied. That means Mueller has evidence Manafort did not think would come out. That means Manafort and Trump underestimated Mueller.

Remember: Republicans were at one point saying the entire idea of the Trump Tower meeting was insane and clearly just a conspiracy theory.

REMEMBER who those people were, both on TL and in person. Consider what they say through that lens.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/manafort-mueller.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3xWb8ooqo_hWtMhYzqEJHjGyLZM0BIWMaNms6FC1Efdm8QuJe1HXVB2HY

WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, repeatedly lied to prosecutors after he agreed to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

The decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court may affect the sentence she hands out in the coming weeks to Mr. Manafort, 69. Judge Jackson said that Mr. Manafort had intentionally lied about his contacts with a Russian associate during the campaign and after Mr. Trump was elected.

Prosecutors have said that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence services. The judge also found that Mr. Manafort had lied about a payment that was routed through a pro-Trump political action committee to cover his legal bills, and about information relevant to another undisclosed investigation underway at the Justice Department.

Mr. Manafort was convicted last year of eight felonies, including tax and bank fraud. He later pleaded guilty to two additional conspiracy counts in a case before Judge Jackson, and agreed at that point to cooperate with prosecutors from the office of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

Judge Jackson ruled in Mr. Manafort’s favor on two issues. She decided that prosecutors had failed to prove their assertion that Mr. Manafort had deceived them about Mr. Kilimnik’s role in a conspiracy to obstruct justice to which Mr. Manafort pleaded guilty. And she decided that the prosecutors failed to establish that Mr. Manafort had lied about later contacts with Trump administration officials.


I'm having trouble following the logical chain here, what Trump Tower conspiracy and what does that have to do with this story?


Trump tower meeting never happened --> wait yeah it did, about adoptions --> wait no it was campaign related --> wait yeah so...shit --> [other major developments] --> Mueller proves Manafort lied about working with Russians on campaign related goals.

Remember when people kept insisting Flynn was innocent? And same for Manafort? I remember! Many people have moved the goalpost so far from where it was a year ago that they aren't considering how they would have reacted to modern news a year ago.



Wait, when did "Trump tower meeting never happened" occur? Did it last for more than 24 hours? I think this shows more about the mind of someone still hooked on Trump-Russia. Somehow all this stuff is apparently working into a grand narrative that will make Democrats be able to say "we didn't really lose in 2016." Seems a little unlikely at this point.

That's not what the lie was about by the way, sharing polling data is tiers below. The goalposts are moving at both ends of the field.

There's actually a better article here, but by the time this happened the emails had already been released? Whatever, thankfully this should all be over soon.

edit: if your point is that Manafort lied then this is really late for that re-revelation. And about Flynn, so far it appears he did not, in fact, "collude." So, yes he's innocent? You have so many things jammed together here.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-14 02:23:44
February 14 2019 02:23 GMT
#22317
Kinda doubt it going to be over soon. With the naked criminality around Trump and his very not smart family, the investigations are likely to never end. After all, these are pretty bad and brazen criminals.

And remember kids, this is why Harry Truman put his peanut farm in a blind trust. Because it is literally impossible to be president and not run afoul of laws if you don't put your assets in a blind trust. The trust is there to protect you from your new, very hard job as president.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
February 14 2019 02:26 GMT
#22318
On February 14 2019 11:23 Plansix wrote:
Kinda doubt it going to be over soon. With the naked criminality around Trump and his very not smart family, the investigations are likely to never end. After all, these are pretty bad and brazen criminals.

And remember kids, this is why Harry Truman put his peanut farm in a blind trust. Because it is literally impossible to be president and not run afoul of laws if you don't put your assets in a blind trust. The trust is there to protect you from your new, very hard job as president.


I mean this Meuller part, at least that's what all the "experts" say, and people have been leaving his staff. Prob why Adam Schiff is now out there saying they are going to keep Trump-Russia alive. It can't be allowed to die.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
February 14 2019 02:32 GMT
#22319
On February 14 2019 11:26 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2019 11:23 Plansix wrote:
Kinda doubt it going to be over soon. With the naked criminality around Trump and his very not smart family, the investigations are likely to never end. After all, these are pretty bad and brazen criminals.

And remember kids, this is why Harry Truman put his peanut farm in a blind trust. Because it is literally impossible to be president and not run afoul of laws if you don't put your assets in a blind trust. The trust is there to protect you from your new, very hard job as president.


I mean this Meuller part, at least that's what all the "experts" say, and people have been leaving his staff. Prob why Adam Schiff is now out there saying they are going to keep Trump-Russia alive. It can't be allowed to die.

Why would it die when people are still being indicted and charged?

How is this even a point of discussion?
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 14 2019 02:33 GMT
#22320
On February 14 2019 11:26 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2019 11:23 Plansix wrote:
Kinda doubt it going to be over soon. With the naked criminality around Trump and his very not smart family, the investigations are likely to never end. After all, these are pretty bad and brazen criminals.

And remember kids, this is why Harry Truman put his peanut farm in a blind trust. Because it is literally impossible to be president and not run afoul of laws if you don't put your assets in a blind trust. The trust is there to protect you from your new, very hard job as president.


I mean this Meuller part, at least that's what all the "experts" say, and people have been leaving his staff. Prob why Adam Schiff is now out there saying they are going to keep Trump-Russia alive. It can't be allowed to die.

That isn’t what I’ve heard. But there may be people leaving for different reasons, like they are not needed for this stage. And I’m sure the democrats would love the final report, don’t you worry.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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