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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 08 2014 02:05 mcc wrote:
Most likely he saw word Africa and , without even analyzing the original posters point, knee-jerked into accusing the guy of racism.
First off he is a racist, because he's spreading race theory stuff which is pseudo-scientific nonsense as people have been pointing out repeatedly. Secondly I used the term 'black people' in a generalizing sense because that is how racists in Europe behave when it comes to situations that involve immigrants from the Middle-East and Africa. They don't differentiate, that is all that is relevant. They all face the same accusations of just being "useless refugees" draining our resources, not speaking our language and not assimilating into our culture.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
that euros still seriously discuss racial theory like it is the 1930s shows why the eu is such an important project
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On December 08 2014 03:15 oneofthem wrote:
that euros still seriously discuss racial theory like it is the 1930s shows why the eu is such an important project
exactly. because if the latest mass demonstrations in the US have shown one thing, it's that race does not matter anymore :p
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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On December 08 2014 02:35 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 02:05 mcc wrote:
Most likely he saw word Africa and , without even analyzing the original posters point, knee-jerked into accusing the guy of racism. First off he is a racist, because he's spreading race theory stuff which is pseudo-scientific nonsense as people have been pointing out repeatedly. Secondly I used the term 'black people' in a generalizing sense because that is how racists in Europe behave when it comes to situations that involve immigrants from the Middle-East and Africa. They don't differentiate, that is all that is relevant. They all face the same accusations of just being "useless refugees" draining our resources, not speaking our language and not assimilating into our culture.
Did I miss something or now you cannot even distinguish different people ? The poster I am talking about and you reacted to said not one word about anything race related at that point, and since then had one minor post that can hardly be construed as racist in any sense. And he said nothing about race theory.
And to your second point, you are completely wrong. Racists actually differentiate. There are racists who are white supremacists who actually do not differentiate. But those are irrelevant minority. Most people are casual racists, disliking one minority much more than others or even not disliking other minorities at all. Your simplistic approach just prevents you from actually understanding anything since you miss the details.
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oneofthem is right on this, racism in the US is different from Europe. Even the most conservative guys in the US thread don't come up with this genetic nonsense. Racist statements in the US are almost always cultural, like pointing the finger at African-American culture and arguing how bad it is or whatever, but half of the last few pages here look some kind of KKK-seminar. (which ironically happens to be an American organisation, duh)
Your simplistic approach just prevents you from actually understanding anything since you miss the details.
Oh yes, I'm sorry for not understanding the sophisticated character of racist theory, that is clearly my fault. I really should talk to those "casual racists" more, they seem like genuinely smart people.
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the question I would add... does it make a real difference to the victim of racism? change one bogus reason for another to hate and discriminate against others? is hating because of "culture" more sophisticated than going the Hitler route with race theory?
pls...
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On December 08 2014 03:15 oneofthem wrote:
that euros still seriously discuss racial theory like it is the 1930s shows why the eu is such an important project
This is such bullshit. How does a global market, with free trade and freedom of movement, helps against racism ?
And a guy on a forum arguing for stupid things means all europe is racist at nazi's level now ?
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It may not make much difference to a specific victim of racism, but it makes a huge difference when it comes to how much countries can actually change. Culture and perception of culture can, biology can't. The kind of ethnic related hate on the European continent has a totalitarian character that has driven whole nations apart and is a thousand times more scarier then what the US has.
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On December 08 2014 03:37 Nyxisto wrote:
It may not make much difference to a specific victim of racism, but it makes a huge difference when it comes to how much countries can actually change. Culture and perception of culture can, biology can't. The kind of ethnic related hate on the European continent has a totalitarian character that has driven whole nations apart and is a thousand times more scarier then what the US has.
And how is that an "european continent" thing ? You think there is a cultural unity of all european countries, a common representation of what is a "race" and what is the hierarchy of those "races" ? I rarely see any biological arguments on race in England, or in modern France (picking two country I know about).
There is no unity of europe, there's a huge variety of cultures - this diversity is our wealth actually.
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am I reading this right... perception of culture can change, but _perception_ on biology can't? or are we trying to change dna of some people lol?
and what's wrong with greeks (just for example) not wanting to become germany - which essentially has become the neglected and disappointed foster child of the US? "pls let me be your sixth eye in the five eyes thingy!"
culturally we are becoming more uniform by the minute because of globalisation and the increasing power of multinational corporations. I am not ok with that.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
you guys are not taking the diversity as wealth.
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On December 08 2014 03:40 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 03:37 Nyxisto wrote:
It may not make much difference to a specific victim of racism, but it makes a huge difference when it comes to how much countries can actually change. Culture and perception of culture can, biology can't. The kind of ethnic related hate on the European continent has a totalitarian character that has driven whole nations apart and is a thousand times more scarier then what the US has. And how is that an "european continent" thing ? You think there is a unity of all european countries ? I rarely see any biological arguments on race in England, or in modern France (picking two country I know about). There is no unity of europe, there's a huge variety of cultures - this diversity is our wealth actually.
Where else in close proximity does this kind of thinking occur? The US are a country founded by immigrants and The Muslim world was for the longest time an Islamic empire (until the Europeans shipped nationalism over there, worked out great).
It's funny that you pick the slogan "diversity is our strength" as this is becoming the new rights favourite statement which is frequently used to dismantle the EU "so all the glorious nation states with their (fundamentally) different people can live freely again." As if multiculturalism was some kind of disease that's used to enslave other countries or something like that. It's where Europe's left and right have formed some kind of unholy alliance.
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On December 08 2014 03:46 oneofthem wrote:
you guys are not taking the diversity as wealth.
again, we learned from the best 
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On December 08 2014 03:46 oneofthem wrote:
you guys are not taking the diversity as wealth.
Depend on what you call diversity. If for you diversity is the "racial"/ethnical/cultural diversity within one nation, well a lot of europeans would say this push toward communautarism. But for the diversity of our cultures, and the variety of countries that exist in europe, then there are no other place in the world with such diversity (with ocenia maybe ?).
And yes we are destroying this diversity through economic liberalism, enforced by the european institutions.
On December 08 2014 03:49 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 03:40 WhiteDog wrote:On December 08 2014 03:37 Nyxisto wrote:
It may not make much difference to a specific victim of racism, but it makes a huge difference when it comes to how much countries can actually change. Culture and perception of culture can, biology can't. The kind of ethnic related hate on the European continent has a totalitarian character that has driven whole nations apart and is a thousand times more scarier then what the US has. And how is that an "european continent" thing ? You think there is a unity of all european countries ? I rarely see any biological arguments on race in England, or in modern France (picking two country I know about). There is no unity of europe, there's a huge variety of cultures - this diversity is our wealth actually. Where else in close proximity does this kind of thinking occur? The US are a country founded by immigrants and The Muslim world was for the longest time an Islamic empire (until the Europeans shipped nationalism over there, worked out great). It's funny that you pick the slogan "diversity is our strength" as this is becoming the new rights favourite statement which is frequently used to dismantle the EU "so all the glorious nation states with their (fundamentally) different people can live freely again." As if multiculturalism was some kind of disease that's used to enslave other countries or something like that. It's where Europe's left and right have formed some kind of unholy alliance.
And what's your point ? That the far left and the far right have some common arguments does not mean they both are the same. Is it racist of me to consider it bad policy to impose a unique economic and monetary policy on such a diverse economic and cultural territory as the europe ?
The US also have a unified culture, altho people forget about it quite easily, around two deities : god and dollars. Multiculturalism only work when everybody accept those two deities. Europeans view this differently.
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On December 08 2014 03:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The US also have a unified culture, altho people forget about it quite easily, around two deities : god and dollars. Multiculturalism only work when everybody accept those two deities. Europeans view this differently.
Now you're sounding like some orthodox Russian priest preaching about degenerated America.
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On December 08 2014 04:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 03:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The US also have a unified culture, altho people forget about it quite easily, around two deities : god and dollars. Multiculturalism only work when everybody accept those two deities. Europeans view this differently. Now you're sounding like some orthodox Russian priest preaching about degenerated America.
I don't understand how ? Nation build theirselves on various things : the US always had god, and its economy, as it was an economic giant even way before it was a political player.
In comparaison, in France we created the laïcité and we were never an economic powerhouse.
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On December 08 2014 04:07 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 04:02 Nyxisto wrote:On December 08 2014 03:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The US also have a unified culture, altho people forget about it quite easily, around two deities : god and dollars. Multiculturalism only work when everybody accept those two deities. Europeans view this differently. Now you're sounding like some orthodox Russian priest preaching about degenerated America. I don't understand how ? Nation build theirselves on various things : the US always had god, and its economy, as it was an economic giant even way before it was a political player. In France, we created the laïcité and we were never an economic powerhouse.
Because economic liberalization arguably has many positive sides, too. I actually think today's Russia is a very good example of what happens when you prioritize some kind of romanticised national narrative over liberalization. It has managed to destroy safety that was built on this continent over decades within a year or two. People constantly underestimate the huge safety and freedom the EU as a institution has brought. (which was rooted in free trade between Germany and France only a few years after devastating wars after all).Even if the currency sucks I'd rather keep it than to see what happens if the EU would break apart.
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On December 08 2014 04:12 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 04:07 WhiteDog wrote:On December 08 2014 04:02 Nyxisto wrote:On December 08 2014 03:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The US also have a unified culture, altho people forget about it quite easily, around two deities : god and dollars. Multiculturalism only work when everybody accept those two deities. Europeans view this differently. Now you're sounding like some orthodox Russian priest preaching about degenerated America. I don't understand how ? Nation build theirselves on various things : the US always had god, and its economy, as it was an economic giant even way before it was a political player. In France, we created the laïcité and we were never an economic powerhouse. Because economic liberalization arguably has many positive sides, too. I actually think today's Russia is a very good example of what happens when you prioritize some kind of romanticised national narrative over liberalization. It has managed to destroy safety that was built on this continent over decades within a year or two. People constantly underestimate the huge safety and freedom the EU as a institution has brought. (which was rooted in free trade between Germany and France only a few years after devastating wars after all).
The europe didn't create any stability. That's the kind of argument I don't understand. And let's not start about Russia again.
What did create stability in europe : two wars killing half the worker force, splitting germany into two pieces, having a new hegemon (the US) that was not too empire like, reducing monetary flux at world wide level, preventing crisis and going for a mixed capitalism with heavy state intervention in key infrastructures/economic activities.
The currency played no role in that, and the Europe in itself has no value, what matters is what you make with it. If you continue to fuel regional hatred and competition within the europe, it won't help your stability.
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is it better than the countless (actual) wars and the bloodshed and feuds for centuries?
of course and thanks to the EU for that.
but looking at the huge gap between southern and northern EU countries, the flawed political structure of the EU (as a german you are free to disagree of course) and therefore more selfish policies than policies benefiting the EU as a whole, liberalization has its limits and will only carry you so far.
not only that it might kill some economies which just run differently. those are super complex problems and pointing to one thing or even a couple does not cut it. my post(s) included of course.
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EPT
