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FluffyBinLaden
United States527 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:10 Cloud9157 wrote: Supposedly the spying the NSA did on Americans has thwarted terrorist attacks, though I haven't heard concrete evidence of this myself yet. So we know about none. In fact we have exactly 0 evidence for it, as far as I know. You'd think at least one event could be declassified, since this operation has run so long. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:10 Cloud9157 wrote: Supposedly the spying the NSA did on Americans has thwarted terrorist attacks, though I haven't heard concrete evidence of this myself yet. I don't have a source but I remember hearing about a small number of terrorist attacks that have been thwarted as a result of this program. Whatever number it was did not sound remotely high enough to justify it..though I'm sure some people believe any amount of attacks prevented is worth shitting on all communication privacy. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:28 kmillz wrote: I don't have a source but I remember hearing about a small number of terrorist attacks that have been thwarted as a result of this program. Whatever number it was did not sound remotely high enough to justify it..though I'm sure some people believe any amount of attacks prevented is worth shitting on all communication privacy. I believe if the NSA had thwarted any real terrorist attacks, even one of them would have made massive headlines. One of NSA's biggest issues is resistance from the public, so it would be a top priority to make it out that the NSA is actually worth it. Also having a giant behemoth security system publicly announce that it is in fact working, should actually slow down terrorism. Nothing stopped terrorist attacks that get thwarted by federal police from making headlines, why is the NSA any different? They do not have to reveal how they did it, just show that they did in fact do it. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:34 sluggaslamoo wrote: I believe if the NSA had thwarted any real terrorist attacks, even one of them would have made massive headlines. One of NSA's biggest issues is resistance from the public, so it would be a top priority to make it out that the NSA is actually worth it. Also having a giant behemoth security system publicly announce that it is in fact working, should actually slow down terrorism. Nothing stopped terrorist attacks that get thwarted by federal police from making headlines, why is the NSA any different? They do not have to reveal how they did it, just show that they did in fact do it. Basically there is maybe 1 terrorist plot that the NSA's e-mail monitoring played a big role in discovering. For the phone records snooping, that number is 0. NSA director says they stopped 50 terror plots with help from NSA snooping, that's a bullshit lie. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
They need to create some sort of award for government whistleblowing. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:28 kmillz wrote: I don't have a source but I remember hearing about a small number of terrorist attacks that have been thwarted as a result of this program. Whatever number it was did not sound remotely high enough to justify it..though I'm sure some people believe any amount of attacks prevented is worth shitting on all communication privacy. I think Snowden himself addressed this and said "but how many of those averted terrorist attacks were averted because of PRISM specifically? How many of them actually required PRISM?" The point being that the NSA is counting PRISM as averting an attack if it's ever used as part of the investigation, even if it wasn't necessary. | ||
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openbox1
1393 Posts
I'll leave it to you on how to interpret this. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:59 cz wrote: No, because he didn't do anything for peace. That said the Peace Prize is already a joke so maybe he does "deserve" it. They need to create some sort of award for government whistleblowing. The Presidential Medal of Freedom would be a good fit... if the US president wasn't the president in "Presidential Medal of Freedom." | ||
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Basic Basic
Tuvalu52 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On July 18 2013 17:10 Basic Basic wrote: I think Snowden's internet fame is an award enough for someone who so clearly wanted attention. The guy is stuck at a freaking airport for months, with that probably being one of the more comfortable scenarios he could have gone through. His future is uncertain, but I would say it's going to be far from pleasant even in the best possible scenarios for him. Somehow I don't think anybody would put themselves through all of that because they "want attention". I just don't understand the need you and some other people have to misrepresent him as a kind of person he's obviously not, even defying basic logic in the process. | ||
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vidium
Romania222 Posts
On July 18 2013 17:10 Basic Basic wrote: I think Snowden's internet fame is an award enough for someone who so clearly wanted attention. He is facing life in prison or worse if caught by the US and you think he is an attention w****? Are you for real? People think that America is the land of freedom, but someone over there just opened some communism manuals and started to apply lessons from there. If the trend goes on, soon we will be living in police states where everything will be intercepted, recorded and even more. You will say on the phone your girlfriend is a bomb(as in hot chick), and the next day the NSA is tearing down your front door at 5 am in the morning. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On July 18 2013 14:12 FluffyBinLaden wrote: So we know about none. In fact we have exactly 0 evidence for it, as far as I know. You'd think at least one event could be declassified, since this operation has run so long. IIRC they did bring up 2 specific cases. One was an american with plans about terror abroad (source). He was allegedly caught by PRISM according to Clapper (NSA). Feinstein (D) said he was caught by tele-logging. Several other informed priviledged senators doubted both statements since 2 of his wives were providing information. The other case was Rogers (R) claiming that a Colorado resident was foiled in terrorism threats by PRISM. Unfortunately for Rogers side, the person was found to be suspicious by british anti-terror corps because of data from their seized computers (source). It might have been a POC for PRISM, but it was hardly instrumental to solving the case. If you look at the mainstream media the following rather poor journalistic effort was echoed in several sources to twart any doubt about what people should believe. Some claim that 20, about 50 or several hundred terrorattacks have been foiled since 9/11 2001, but if the involvement of the more advanced programs are as limited as in the above cases, it is a pretty weak defense for those specific programs. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
Hell no. His acts are not so noble as some of you think they are. This is what a real Nobel Price winner has to say about it: http://www.svd.se/kultur/snowden-ar-ingen-frihetshjalte_8355790.svd The article is in Swedish, but since a lot of you already think you know everything about Sweden, I think it should be just fine. | ||
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
The Nobel Peace Prize is kind of a joke these days, anyway. I mean shit, they gave it to Obama before he actually did anything, and he's been doing everything BUT promoting the cause of peace in the world. Plus, Snowden's actions are pretty suspect, imo. I appreciate the fact that he blew the whistle on what is clearly a serious breach of privacy that shouldn't be tolerated here in the US, but his actions after the fact leave me suspicious that his intentions were really pure after all. Between trying to seek asylum in Hong Kong/China/Russia to reports of him possibly handing over laptops to the Chinese...idk. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On July 18 2013 11:19 kmillz wrote: It's interesting to me that so many people here seem to be ok with all of this spying..could anyone give me some examples of what good it has done for us that we know about so far? I think it's the same reason why many super power has nuclear arsenal. Do you want a good example what good it has done for human kind? | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 18 2013 21:07 furymonkey wrote: I think it's the same reason why many super power has nuclear arsenal. Do you want a good example what good it has done for human kind? Further, what harm has it done to us? A lot of this outrage is unsubstantiated from a practical point of view. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On July 18 2013 20:02 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Plus, Snowden's actions are pretty suspect, imo. I appreciate the fact that he blew the whistle on what is clearly a serious breach of privacy that shouldn't be tolerated here in the US, but his actions after the fact leave me suspicious that his intentions were really pure after all. Between trying to seek asylum in Hong Kong/China/Russia to reports of him possibly handing over laptops to the Chinese...idk. well the american government showed in the past that they do not value human rights very highly when it comes to whistleblowers. so the only reliable chance he got was to go to a country that could give him at least some basic form of protection. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On July 18 2013 22:28 aksfjh wrote: Further, what harm has it done to us? A lot of this outrage is unsubstantiated from a practical point of view. Nuclear capability factors in strategic considerations in international relations, much as military factors, so their benefit/harm, however you see it, exists from a practical point of view even if they're not used. This is probably not the thread for getting into said discussion, though. | ||
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