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On November 15 2018 22:28 Zaros wrote:
You guys don’t seem to understand, yes if we are selling something to the EU it should meet EU rules, there is no reason once we leave the EU if I’m selling something from London to Birmingham it should have to follow EU rules.
I don't think those are the rules tho. I think that the rules are:
If you want to sell something to the EU you have to follow EU guidelines (duh). You can keep whatever policies you want for the internal market.
If you want to sell something to the EU without import restrictions/tariffs, then you have to be part of the European Single Market, and thus you have to accept the EU guidelines for sales within the UK.
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The real root of the problem is Irish border.
Nobody wants hard border, but how else EU can be sure that products coming trough that border are in accordance with EU rules?
a)All UK is abiding
b)Border check on the Irish sea (Strong NO NO from UK and NI)
c)Border check on Northern Ireland-Ireland border (Strong NO from Ireland and NI)
So we are left with a, option which everybody (especially brexiteers) hates, but is only thing left and on which (or some variant of which) May/EU had to work on.
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On November 15 2018 22:28 Zaros wrote:
You guys don’t seem to understand, yes if we are selling something to the EU it should meet EU rules, there is no reason once we leave the EU if I’m selling something from London to Birmingham it should have to follow EU rules.
Provided those products are never ever going anywhere near the EU that's fine. How many businesses work that way though?
I work in a games shop. Because of this I've learned that more than 90% of video game discs for the current generation of hardware are produced in EU countries and shipped to the UK. For us to continue to do business we need to abide by some EU regulations, and we're a tiny south-west england outfit whose customers are purely UK based.
The number of businesses that have literally nothing to do with the EU now are tiny. Most industries depend on the EU in some form.
Think about the much-balleyhooed fishing quotas argument. Take back control of our seas! Prevent all those fishing quotas that make life hard for our fishermen!
Only, that doesn't work, because those quotas are based on sustainable fishing, meaning Parliament would have to set the exact same quotas or else our fisherman would soon have no fish to fish for.
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To put it another way, a US product developer does not want to comply with two sets of regulations to sell things in the EU and UK. It will cost more money and some products will just be made for one or the other. But the EU has a larger population, so it will likely favor them if the UK has its own internal regulations
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On November 16 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:
To put it another way, a US product developer does not want to comply with two sets of regulations to sell things in the EU and UK. It will cost more money and some products will just be made for one or the other. But the EU has a larger population, so it will likely favor them if the UK has its own internal regulations
Depending on how things go in the next couple of months the UK could well find itself with extremely similar regulations to the US. I can well imagine a trade deal that aligns the two in most of the big areas.
I dread this.
Just seen Theresa May's press conference. She seems bizarrely confident. I think she's been on the edge of being kicked out of Downing Street for so long now she's just got used to it.
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What else other than:" This is shit but the only possible shit" and try to sound confident should she try?
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On November 16 2018 03:01 Velr wrote:
What else other than:" This is shit but the only possible shit" and try to sound confident should she try?
It’s too late now but she could have backed No deal
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On November 16 2018 03:05 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2018 03:01 Velr wrote:
What else other than:" This is shit but the only possible shit" and try to sound confident should she try? It’s too late now but she could have backed No deal
I really don't think No Deal would have been a winning plan anyone. A hard break from the EU has quantifiable consequences that can be clearly listed in a bullet point format. And those consequences are not subject to any negotiation. I am sure there would be some cheering at first, but soon after that everyone would start doing the math of exactly how much they have to lose when the break happens. This is why nations should not vote on things of this scale without a clear plan in place.
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On November 16 2018 03:05 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2018 03:01 Velr wrote:
What else other than:" This is shit but the only possible shit" and try to sound confident should she try? It’s too late now but she could have backed No deal
Which is far worse?
She's not willing to suicidebomb the british economy... What a weak leader!
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On November 16 2018 02:12 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:
To put it another way, a US product developer does not want to comply with two sets of regulations to sell things in the EU and UK. It will cost more money and some products will just be made for one or the other. But the EU has a larger population, so it will likely favor them if the UK has its own internal regulations Depending on how things go in the next couple of months the UK could well find itself with extremely similar regulations to the US. I can well imagine a trade deal that aligns the two in most of the big areas. I dread this. Just seen Theresa May's press conference. She seems bizarrely confident. I think she's been on the edge of being kicked out of Downing Street for so long now she's just got used to it.
I find that to be quite unlikely. Will have to see what kind of access to the market the UK will get in the end but as far as I know portions of the UK basicly function as a haven for non-EU companies to sell their stuff into the EU.
In some cases you aren't allowed to sell into the EU unless you have a company that's liable under EU law in case something happens so to get around that a lot of especially US and Asian companies buy or build some kind of facility in the UK to get that access and they pick the UK simply for language reasons as it makes it easier for them. Or well, saying it's only language reasons is probably an overstatement but that's def a big part.
I can't imagine the UK being on similar or the same standards as the US, as opposed to EU ones helping. But then if that part of the UK industry is already dead by default now there might be a chance.
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The serial snake, traitorous Gove? Better gone. He should be banished to the forgotten realms of politics for the shit he's pulled in the last few years. Johnson too.
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On November 16 2018 19:28 iamthedave wrote:The serial snake, traitorous Gove? Better gone. He should be banished to the forgotten realms of politics for the shit he's pulled in the last few years. Johnson too.
Apart from the obviously funny aspect, it's not sure that May will actually lose a vote of no confidence.
There is neither time nor leadership available on the side of the British and neither willingness to give up more than has already been given up by the EU. It's not even save to say this deal will get a pass by the respective governments.
The MS Brexit is pulling an Alberta and is almost rat free, albeit not sinking just now.
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On November 16 2018 20:09 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2018 19:28 iamthedave wrote:The serial snake, traitorous Gove? Better gone. He should be banished to the forgotten realms of politics for the shit he's pulled in the last few years. Johnson too. https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1063368153797967872Apart from the obviously funny aspect, it's not sure that May will actually lose a vote of no confidence. There is neither time nor leadership available on the side of the British and neither willingness to give up more than has already been given up by the EU. It's not even save to say this deal will get a pass by the respective governments. The MS Brexit is pulling an Alberta and is almost rat free, albeit not sinking just now.
This deal will definitely not pass parliament in the UK.
There isn't a deal available that will. Its pretty much looking like a straight choice between no deal or no brexit.
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I did not say or insinuate that the deal will pass though (to my understanding of the words I wrote).
The false dichotomy of either this impossible deal we want or no deal is 100% on the Tories and hopefully will bite their asses for a generation or two.
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Labour should rise above their own political motivations and do what is best for the country and support this deal.
Its D-Day,time to make a decision. There is not much room to negotiate and get a potentially better deal,they have been negotiating for over 1 year already.
If deal doesn't get through then I guess that is the end for May and then what? New elections,labour possibly majority and then labour will negotiate a better deal? Am just wondering what the plan is here,how labour sees this going forward.
There isn't time for all that,GB will leave the eu next year deal or no deal.
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On November 16 2018 22:28 pmh wrote:
Labour should rise above their own political motivations and do what is best for the country and support this deal.
Its D-Day,time to make a decision. There is not much room to negotiate and get a potentially better deal,they have been negotiating for over 1 year already.
If deal doesn't get through then I guess that is the end for May and then what? New elections,labour possibly majority and then labour will negotiate a better deal? Am just wondering what the plan is here,how labour sees this going forward.
There isn't time for all that,GB will leave the eu next year deal or no deal.
Why is that labour's responsibility? Tories are governing. Sure, it's a fucking mess of a government, but they negotiated this deal and have not for a second thought to include the pro-Brexit labour politicians.
I mean, I'm all for politicians doing what is best for the country, I just don't see why you are placing this responsibility on the opposition, when it's the coalition that is running around like a headless chicken. Sure, Labour is a mess too, but they haven't had any input in the negotiations at all.
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On November 16 2018 22:28 pmh wrote:
Labour should rise above their own political motivations and do what is best for the country and support this deal.
Its D-Day,time to make a decision. There is not much room to negotiate and get a potentially better deal,they have been negotiating for over 1 year already.
If deal doesn't get through then I guess that is the end for May and then what? New elections,labour possibly majority and then labour will negotiate a better deal? Am just wondering what the plan is here,how labour sees this going forward.
There isn't time for all that,GB will leave the eu next year deal or no deal.
Labour absolutely should not do that. They should be pushing for a second referendum, and do what's right for the country. This deal is awful for the UK, that's why the EU leaders are all loving it. This is a soft brexit, but no-one really wants a soft brexit (the people who seem to want one really don't want brexit at all).
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EPT
