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On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society.
I think the reason why many people feel that "privilege" is a derogatory term is because it is often used to tell someone to "check their privilege" when they are being insensitive or bigoted towards minorities.
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On June 26 2013 08:06 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:04 codonbyte wrote:On June 26 2013 08:01 salle wrote:On June 26 2013 07:48 Fission wrote:
bleh removed post, didn't articulate my thoughts well (Sorry I peaked at your original post) But what he meant (I think) or at least what I meant by quoting it is if the offence you're feeling is baseless. or based on the loss of a wrongfully held privilege then by all means, feel offended, but don't think anyone will give a shit. Offence in and of itself is not a reason not to do something. Wait, where do I have to click to see the original unedited post? I know on some websites you can see an edit history of a post (such as on wikipedia). admins/moderators see it. You don't.
Oooooh okay. I thought I was missing something (and I often miss things, I'm kinda bad about noticing things lol).
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On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society.
Because in that case it is your fault that you are privileged and don't recognize it (the combination is important). As in you say something only a privileged person could say because they don't get the problems non-privileged people might have.
That doesn't mean "privileged" is a negative term in general.
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On June 26 2013 08:45 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. As in you say something only a privileged person could say because they don't get the problems non-privileged people might have.
But do you not see how this is abusable? Suppose I make an argument that you disagree with, and in response to your criticism I simply reply "clearly you misunderstood my position; if you had understood me, you wouldn't have disagreed." You could literally use this defense against anything.
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On June 26 2013 08:35 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. I think the reason why many people feel that "privilege" is a derogatory term is because it is often used to tell someone to "check their privilege" when they are being insensitive or bigoted towards minorities.
Its weird how a term that means on thing is abused by a specific group and becomes a pejorative. The phrase "check your privilege" is a way to hold it over the empowered person. It is specifically irksome for some people because they know it is true and there is nothing they can do about it.
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On June 26 2013 08:47 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:45 Keniji wrote:On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. As in you say something only a privileged person could say because they don't get the problems non-privileged people might have. But do you not see how this is abusable? Suppose I make an argument that you disagree with, and in response to your criticism I simply reply "clearly you misunderstood my position; if you had understood me, you wouldn't have disagreed." You could literally use this defense against anything.
There's a million things you can abuse/do if you don't really want to argue and just want to ridicule your opponent.
I was once told that if you go into an argument with a fanatic (a nazi in this case) you don't argue to convince them but the people around listening to the discussion who haven't made up their mind because no matter how good your arguments are, you can't win.
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On June 26 2013 08:35 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. I think the reason why many people feel that "privilege" is a derogatory term is because it is often used to tell someone to "check their privilege" when they are being insensitive or bigoted towards minorities.
Yeah, wouldn't want to be insulted for making racist comments.
As a very tall upper middle class white guy, I am perfectly fine with recognizing that I am privileged. I will statistically have an easier time getting employment and becoming financially successful. I would be an asshole if I didn't acknowledge that fact, and I don't particularly care if someone else mentions it.
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Again with the privilege thing...
On June 26 2013 06:08 Pholon wrote:Can we get back on topic rather than argue unrelated semantics? Cheers ;/ Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 06:05 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 06:02 marvellosity wrote:On June 26 2013 06:01 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Why are TL admins taking a stance on a such a hot political issue? Have any of them spoken out about why they are taking such a stance? I am personally turned off by the juxtaposition of politics and something totally unrelated to it. Can we just focus on the games please? There are plenty of other forums to voice your approval or disapproval for any given political/moral topic. Yes, TL admins have spoken about it plenty. It's pretty clear you haven't read the thread. If you don't want to talk about it, don't click on the thread. Easy right? ^^ Can you quote them please? I do not have time to read through 70 pages of thread, sorry. I clicked on the thread to voice my opinion, not to engage in a lengthy discussion about the relationship between politics and esports. We don't think this is politics, it's humanism. Since TL is more than a gaming news site, but also a community with people we feel we can voice our opinion on stuff like this 
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On June 26 2013 08:57 Angry_Fetus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:35 codonbyte wrote:On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. I think the reason why many people feel that "privilege" is a derogatory term is because it is often used to tell someone to "check their privilege" when they are being insensitive or bigoted towards minorities. Yeah, wouldn't want to be insulted for making racist comments. As a very tall upper middle class white guy, I am perfectly fine with recognizing that I am privileged. I will statistically have an easier time getting employment and becoming financially successful. I would be an asshole if I didn't acknowledge that fact, and I don't particularly care if someone else mentions it.
Oh yes. Those poor upper-middle class straight white males who have their feelings hurt after they make racist comments! Never mind the shit that gay people have to put up with. Never mind the racial profiling that black people have to deal with. Never mind the sexism that women have to deal with. But how dare anyone hurt their feelings by suggesting that maybe they're being racist!
[end sarcastic rant]
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Anyone offended by a rainbow horsie doesn't deserve to have their sensibilities taken seriously. Oh, the TL crew are largely for giving homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals? How does that offend anybody, exactly? Disagreeing with something isn't the same as being offended by it. It's not gay porn, it's a logo in a different color. It's not demanding anything from you or interrupting your TL-experience any more than you allow it to.
I think that Stephen Fry quote about "being offended" is overused -- and often out of appropriate context -- but in this case it actually is appropriate. What Stephen is saying is that people use "being offended" as an excuse to try to shut something down without giving any argument or reason. If something if offensive for obvious reasons, then you can say what it is that's wrong about it without just simply dismissing it as "offensive".
Some things surely are worth taking offense over, as even Mr. Fry would agree. But a rainbow horsie isn't one of those things.
And I'd congratulate Snute if I wasn't conflicted by feelings of jealousy.
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On June 26 2013 09:18 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:57 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 26 2013 08:35 codonbyte wrote:On June 26 2013 08:15 Shiori wrote:
My issue with "privilege" has always been that people say it as if you should feel bad about it. It's always like "yeah, you would say that, you're privileged." But then at the same time everyone insists that it isn't my fault if I'm privileged. Well, then stop saying it like it's my fault! I can feel sorry that people aren't privileged, but I certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it, because I am not the arbiter of privilege in society. I think the reason why many people feel that "privilege" is a derogatory term is because it is often used to tell someone to "check their privilege" when they are being insensitive or bigoted towards minorities. Yeah, wouldn't want to be insulted for making racist comments. As a very tall upper middle class white guy, I am perfectly fine with recognizing that I am privileged. I will statistically have an easier time getting employment and becoming financially successful. I would be an asshole if I didn't acknowledge that fact, and I don't particularly care if someone else mentions it. Oh yes. Those poor upper-middle class straight white males who have their feelings hurt after they make racist comments! Never mind the shit that gay people have to put up with. Never mind the racial profiling that black people have to deal with. Never mind the sexism that women have to deal with. But how dare anyone hurt their feelings by suggesting that maybe they're being racist! [end sarcastic rant]
Countering someone's complaint by saying "you should feel bad for me, my life is worst than yours," isn't very effective.
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On June 24 2013 22:21 Sedzz wrote:
TLO and Snute got engaged.
I'm so confused- can someone say if this is true? Did I somehow miss it completely? I've never heard of it before this thread.
If so, congratulations!
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On June 26 2013 09:20 Leporello wrote:
Anyone offended by a rainbow horsie doesn't deserve to have their sensibilities taken seriously. Oh, the TL crew are largely for giving homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals? How does that offend anybody, exactly? Disagreeing with something isn't the same as being offended by it.
I think that Stephen Fry quote about "being offended" is overused -- and often out of appropriate context -- but in this case it actually is appropriate. What Stephen is saying is that people use "being offended" as an excuse to try to shut something down without giving any argument or reason. If something if offensive for obvious reasons, then you can say what it is that's wrong about it without just simply dismissing it as "offensive".
Some things surely are worth taking offense over, as even Mr. Fry would agree. But a rainbow horsie isn't one of those things.
I'm not sure. Ask Plansix.
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On June 26 2013 09:34 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 09:20 Leporello wrote:
Anyone offended by a rainbow horsie doesn't deserve to have their sensibilities taken seriously. Oh, the TL crew are largely for giving homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals? How does that offend anybody, exactly? Disagreeing with something isn't the same as being offended by it.
I think that Stephen Fry quote about "being offended" is overused -- and often out of appropriate context -- but in this case it actually is appropriate. What Stephen is saying is that people use "being offended" as an excuse to try to shut something down without giving any argument or reason. If something if offensive for obvious reasons, then you can say what it is that's wrong about it without just simply dismissing it as "offensive".
Some things surely are worth taking offense over, as even Mr. Fry would agree. But a rainbow horsie isn't one of those things. I'm not sure. Ask Plansix.
I'm not offended. I support TL and their banner. Don't lump me in with other people just because I don't agree with you on everything.
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On June 24 2013 23:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
besides, we have a plain, straight-maned horse in our banner 51 out of 52 weeks through the year.
Having skimmed this thread, I'm now for keeping the rainbow mane permanently.
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Along the lines of this discussion on the reception of the word "privileged," lot of folks use the term "elite" in a very pejorative manner. I've seen it used by conservatives and liberals before. It causes people to think that the person termed such is either abusing their status, undeserving of it, or both.
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I love the logo, whoever made it did a good job with it.
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On June 26 2013 09:31 Walnuts wrote:I'm so confused- can someone say if this is true? Did I somehow miss it completely? I've never heard of it before this thread. If so, congratulations!
It's 100% true.
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On June 26 2013 10:00 Matoo- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 09:31 Walnuts wrote:On June 24 2013 22:21 Sedzz wrote:
TLO and Snute got engaged. I'm so confused- can someone say if this is true? Did I somehow miss it completely? I've never heard of it before this thread. If so, congratulations! It's 100% true.
Could you provide some proof so that I can stop feeling like a genuine Romanian, please? I don't know a nicer way to ask that, lol. But I'm having a really difficult time believing news of that magnitude.
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On June 26 2013 10:35 cLAN.Anax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 10:00 Matoo- wrote:On June 26 2013 09:31 Walnuts wrote:On June 24 2013 22:21 Sedzz wrote:
TLO and Snute got engaged. I'm so confused- can someone say if this is true? Did I somehow miss it completely? I've never heard of it before this thread. If so, congratulations! It's 100% true. Could you provide some proof so that I can stop feeling like a genuine Romanian, please? I don't know a nicer way to ask that, lol. But I'm having a really difficult time believing news of that magnitude.
You are getting trolled my friend.
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EPT
