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Anarion
Profile Joined June 2010
17 Posts
March 08 2013 11:55 GMT
#561
On March 08 2013 19:59 Geneq wrote:
South Korea better build some defenses and invest in detection.


good luck defending versus nuke artillery
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6334 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 12:16:20
March 08 2013 12:08 GMT
#562
On March 08 2013 20:54 drkcid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 20:44 DonKey_ wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:29 Zeo wrote:
All NK needs is good anti-air and NATO is fucked, I read earlier in the thread something about the North invading and taking the South hostage, if they get into the cities its game over, what will NATO do? Bomb the southern cities?
Ground invasion means a lot of dead Americans and new episodes of MASH, nothing else.
EDIT: again, not talking about 20,000 taliban on goats, but 1,1 million serious troops who will have more than enough supplies just by raping/pillaging the southern countryside bare

That's the problem good anti-air costs ALOT of money, which NK has none of. SAM missiles are not going to shoot down stealth bombers, in fact the NK wont even know they are going to be bombed until it is happening.

You do realize that that NATO forces don't need to bomb the NK forces occupying the cities , they can just target their logistics/ammo/food/medical/communications and from there any occupying NK force loses their chain of command and supply.

NK won't be able to hold onto SK cities for longer than a few weeks, because as you have stated they are not the taliban, they are not being actively helped by the local populace.


Also NATO doesn't have any problems bombing military units in cities, they have a lot of practice since early 90s.

They have been killing civilians and citing 'collateral damage' since the early 90's
EDIT: North Korea has a air force as well, about 1,600 / 1,700 aircraft of different types, and according to wiki --> North Korea operates a wide variety of air defence equipment, from short-range MANPADS and ZPU-4 machine guns, to long-range SA-5 Gammon SAM systems and large-calibre AA artillery guns. DPRK has one of the densest air defence networks in the world.
A large part of the ground attack aircraft are kept in heavily fortified hangars, some of which are capable of withstanding a nearby nuclear blast.
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
March 08 2013 12:15 GMT
#563
In my uneducated opinion, invading N.K. is easy militarily, but very difficult geo-politically. The main issue is not how strong N.K. army is aside from the nuke part.
drkcid
Profile Joined October 2012
Spain196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 12:17:57
March 08 2013 12:16 GMT
#564
On March 08 2013 21:08 Zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 20:54 drkcid wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:44 DonKey_ wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:29 Zeo wrote:
All NK needs is good anti-air and NATO is fucked, I read earlier in the thread something about the North invading and taking the South hostage, if they get into the cities its game over, what will NATO do? Bomb the southern cities?
Ground invasion means a lot of dead Americans and new episodes of MASH, nothing else.
EDIT: again, not talking about 20,000 taliban on goats, but 1,1 million serious troops who will have more than enough supplies just by raping/pillaging the southern countryside bare

That's the problem good anti-air costs ALOT of money, which NK has none of. SAM missiles are not going to shoot down stealth bombers, in fact the NK wont even know they are going to be bombed until it is happening.

You do realize that that NATO forces don't need to bomb the NK forces occupying the cities , they can just target their logistics/ammo/food/medical/communications and from there any occupying NK force loses their chain of command and supply.

NK won't be able to hold onto SK cities for longer than a few weeks, because as you have stated they are not the taliban, they are not being actively helped by the local populace.


Also NATO doesnt have any problems bombing military units in cities, they have a lot of practice since early 90s.

They have been killing civilians and citing 'collateral damage' since the early 90's


Exactly, and it doesnt seems to be a problem, if they have to bomb cities they will do it.

Edit: its just a fact, Im not in favor to bomb cities.
Just for fun
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 12:48:23
March 08 2013 12:29 GMT
#565
On March 08 2013 21:08 Zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 20:54 drkcid wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:44 DonKey_ wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:29 Zeo wrote:
All NK needs is good anti-air and NATO is fucked, I read earlier in the thread something about the North invading and taking the South hostage, if they get into the cities its game over, what will NATO do? Bomb the southern cities?
Ground invasion means a lot of dead Americans and new episodes of MASH, nothing else.
EDIT: again, not talking about 20,000 taliban on goats, but 1,1 million serious troops who will have more than enough supplies just by raping/pillaging the southern countryside bare

That's the problem good anti-air costs ALOT of money, which NK has none of. SAM missiles are not going to shoot down stealth bombers, in fact the NK wont even know they are going to be bombed until it is happening.

You do realize that that NATO forces don't need to bomb the NK forces occupying the cities , they can just target their logistics/ammo/food/medical/communications and from there any occupying NK force loses their chain of command and supply.

NK won't be able to hold onto SK cities for longer than a few weeks, because as you have stated they are not the taliban, they are not being actively helped by the local populace.


Also NATO doesn't have any problems bombing military units in cities, they have a lot of practice since early 90s.

They have been killing civilians and citing 'collateral damage' since the early 90's
EDIT: North Korea has a air force as well, about 1,600 / 1,700 aircraft of different types, and according to wiki --> North Korea operates a wide variety of air defence equipment, from short-range MANPADS and ZPU-4 machine guns, to long-range SA-5 Gammon SAM systems and large-calibre AA artillery guns. DPRK has one of the densest air defence networks in the world.
A large part of the ground attack aircraft are kept in heavily fortified hangars, some of which are capable of withstanding a nearby nuclear blast.

Out of the 1500 aircraft the NK has 484 are fighters out of those 484 fighters only 23 are known to be operational. 7 of them from 1977 and 16 of them from 1967.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Air_Force
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7951771/Intelligence-experts-analyse-North-Korean-fighter-jet-crash.html
Another interesting thing about NK pilots is that they only get about 15-25 flight hours a year compared to NATO pilots at 150 flight hours a year.

None of the air defense weapons the NK have are capable of shooting down aircraft at the altitude of stealth bombers. In fact a large amount of their AA is completely obsolete and ineffective against modern aircraft. Also shown in the wiki.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
CTIA
Profile Joined November 2012
France117 Posts
March 08 2013 12:56 GMT
#566
My brother is currently residing in Dongducheon near NK and working on a construction site 4km away from NK, he sees 30+ tanks everyday and told me he never saw this much troops at the same place x)
Maru N1 MKP NesTea Mvp IdrA Ryung
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4601 Posts
March 08 2013 13:20 GMT
#567
Don't worry, Harlem globe trotter's say they're cool.

This situation reminds me of the crazy little kid in school who is looking for a fight, when he is 2 years younger, weight half.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 13:26:47
March 08 2013 13:24 GMT
#568
On March 08 2013 20:09 Zeo wrote:
Does anyone here actually believe NATO has the balls to ground invade NK?
If you think Irak/Afghanistan were hard to 'assimilate' North Korea is on a whole other level, as in never or it would take 40 years after occupation. Oh and by the way, after the first 50,000 NATO troops are dead the call from home to get the 'fuck out of there' means that the South would be abandoned... Just like what happened in Vietnam.
Does anyone here have any idea what 1,1 million troops (most of them fanatical) means? It means WW2 scale operations. Not fighting 20,000 taliban on goats. Perfect time for countries that don't like NATO (Iran/ex-Soviet block/China/South America) to make shit happen elsewhere, trust me, it should be you guys not wanting this war, not North Korea.
EDIT: grammer

Why invade NK? If it would come to worst they would just missle and bomb the shit out of NK.
NKs military technology cant do shit compared to the rest of the world.

But lets hope for the best and wait some more till they destroyed themselves.

edit: and to compare it to WW2-esque scenario just because they have a lot of people would be neglecting the way war today is drawn out.
We would have a war against a nation, not against a tyrant(as of Iraq/Afghanistan).
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
March 08 2013 13:34 GMT
#569
NKs army numbers are ridiculous. They only have like what, 10mil people who are male and fit for army? And 9.4mil of those are counted into their army strenght? That's just ridiculous, that's like saying China has a 500 million soldier reserve. I really don't think they can afford proper equipment for everyone, with a military budget of 1/4 that of SKs(and 1% of that of US's)? With all their military equipment and vehicle numbers being approximates and likely very exaggerated(an example would be the 1700 aircraft number, when in reality only 23 of those are usable fighters from like 40 years ago when even Finland has 64 from 1995). I'd say that SKs 650k standing army and 3.2mil reserve are far more credible numbers and I doubt they'd even need US's help if it came down to it.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
furymonkey
Profile Joined December 2008
New Zealand1587 Posts
March 08 2013 13:51 GMT
#570
On March 08 2013 20:29 Zeo wrote:
All NK needs is good anti-air and NATO is fucked, I read earlier in the thread something about the North invading and taking the South hostage, if they get into the cities its game over, what will NATO do? Bomb the southern cities?
Ground invasion means a lot of dead Americans and new episodes of MASH, nothing else.
EDIT: again, not talking about 20,000 taliban on goats, but 1,1 million serious troops who will have more than enough supplies just by raping/pillaging the southern countryside bare


South Korea are actually capable holding and win the war on its own, it just won't be a pretty fight.
Leenock the Punisher
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 14:25:14
March 08 2013 14:03 GMT
#571
Might want to update OP: source

The cease-fire is officially gone. Functionally, this means NK has officially declared open all-out war on SK.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
March 08 2013 14:04 GMT
#572
SK will take no shit from NK anymore.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-08 15:02:53
March 08 2013 14:58 GMT
#573
This should become the "official thread" for North-Korea stuff. What do you think Mods? Good or bad idea? I feel like Teamliquid doesn't need few new threads each month when stuff is happening, when you could just update one single thread and have the discussion there. Would be way better and easier to follow the whole 'situation' anyway.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6660 Posts
March 08 2013 15:05 GMT
#574
On March 08 2013 23:58 Grettin wrote:
This should become the "official thread" for North-Korea stuff. What do you think Mods? Good or bad idea? I feel like Teamliquid doesn't need few new threads each month when stuff is happening, when you could just update one single thread and have the discussion there. Would be way better and easier to follow the whole 'situation' anyway.

I think this is a very good idea.Seems like every week or so NK does something new now a days. Be way more efficient to just have on thread for it as opposed to starting a bunch of new ones all the time.
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 08 2013 15:33 GMT
#575
On March 08 2013 21:08 Zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 20:54 drkcid wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:44 DonKey_ wrote:
On March 08 2013 20:29 Zeo wrote:
All NK needs is good anti-air and NATO is fucked, I read earlier in the thread something about the North invading and taking the South hostage, if they get into the cities its game over, what will NATO do? Bomb the southern cities?
Ground invasion means a lot of dead Americans and new episodes of MASH, nothing else.
EDIT: again, not talking about 20,000 taliban on goats, but 1,1 million serious troops who will have more than enough supplies just by raping/pillaging the southern countryside bare

That's the problem good anti-air costs ALOT of money, which NK has none of. SAM missiles are not going to shoot down stealth bombers, in fact the NK wont even know they are going to be bombed until it is happening.

You do realize that that NATO forces don't need to bomb the NK forces occupying the cities , they can just target their logistics/ammo/food/medical/communications and from there any occupying NK force loses their chain of command and supply.

NK won't be able to hold onto SK cities for longer than a few weeks, because as you have stated they are not the taliban, they are not being actively helped by the local populace.


Also NATO doesn't have any problems bombing military units in cities, they have a lot of practice since early 90s.

They have been killing civilians and citing 'collateral damage' since the early 90's
EDIT: North Korea has a air force as well, about 1,600 / 1,700 aircraft of different types, and according to wiki --> North Korea operates a wide variety of air defence equipment, from short-range MANPADS and ZPU-4 machine guns, to long-range SA-5 Gammon SAM systems and large-calibre AA artillery guns. DPRK has one of the densest air defence networks in the world.
A large part of the ground attack aircraft are kept in heavily fortified hangars, some of which are capable of withstanding a nearby nuclear blast.

If you are seriously counting NK's archaic and completely obsolete WWII era aircraft as a viable airforce then you honestly have no idea what in the world you're talking about. There's no way NK can win a war even just against SK on her own because of how outdated their military is. How are you expecting to win a conventional war in this day and age when you will concede air superiority to the enemy from the beginning?
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
March 08 2013 15:53 GMT
#576
I think only chance NK to handle their current situation is to Kim Jong Un make "coup" to retire all old guard generals and make same kind of improvements to like China did. I think political party would accept it after all they could remain power like China did. NK could even use it as propaganda weapon to make citizens happy when they get jobs and government gets all kind of trade money.
ItanoCircus
Profile Joined January 2013
United States67 Posts
March 08 2013 16:02 GMT
#577
Unsurprisingly, a lack of action has resulted in further buildup as North Korea continues to outright ignore the pleas and intentions (and sanctions) of the international community at large. It would only be in the interest of South Korea, to say nothing of Israel, the United States, and others, to wage war against the country before it acts on its stated and intended goal of nuclear warfare.

An internal coup d'etat is unlikely, economic pressure isn't working, and shows of force are producing the opposite effect. Mark my words that this will not end well should the world decide to wait and pray that North Korea is a petulant child.
Better to be thought a fool and keep your mouth closed than to open it and remove all doubt.
Soohyung
Profile Joined April 2012
Korea (South)116 Posts
March 08 2013 16:19 GMT
#578
After North Korea quitting the non-aggression pact the world definitely should be alarmed. I really hope it's only an empty threat by North Korea. We definitely should take this serious though and keep an eye on them.
이지은
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 08 2013 16:28 GMT
#579
On March 09 2013 00:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 23:58 Grettin wrote:
This should become the "official thread" for North-Korea stuff. What do you think Mods? Good or bad idea? I feel like Teamliquid doesn't need few new threads each month when stuff is happening, when you could just update one single thread and have the discussion there. Would be way better and easier to follow the whole 'situation' anyway.

I think this is a very good idea.Seems like every week or so NK does something new now a days. Be way more efficient to just have on thread for it as opposed to starting a bunch of new ones all the time.

If we're using this as the NK thread, there are some developments concerning their prisoner camps:

North Korea has built a huge "security perimeter" around a camp for political prisoners, restricting movement in nearby villages as part of its "general repression" of its people, according to Amnesty International, the London-based rights watchdog.

The reclusive country's network of political prison camps is believed to hold at least 200,000 people and has been the scene of rapes, torture, executions and slave labour, Navi Pillay, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, said in January.

Analysis of new satellite images of the area near Camp No 14 in Kaechon shows that the government is "blurring the lines" between its camps and surrounding civilians, Amnesty International said on Thursday.


source
Fawkes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1935 Posts
March 08 2013 17:12 GMT
#580
On March 08 2013 22:34 Shikyo wrote:
NKs army numbers are ridiculous. They only have like what, 10mil people who are male and fit for army? And 9.4mil of those are counted into their army strenght? That's just ridiculous, that's like saying China has a 500 million soldier reserve. I really don't think they can afford proper equipment for everyone, with a military budget of 1/4 that of SKs(and 1% of that of US's)? With all their military equipment and vehicle numbers being approximates and likely very exaggerated(an example would be the 1700 aircraft number, when in reality only 23 of those are usable fighters from like 40 years ago when even Finland has 64 from 1995). I'd say that SKs 650k standing army and 3.2mil reserve are far more credible numbers and I doubt they'd even need US's help if it came down to it.


It could become like some WW2 battle...think it may have been Stalingrad...not enough equipment. You just pick up dropped equipment from the people in front of you...
Taeyeon ~ Jennie ~ Seulgi ~ Irene @Fawkes711
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