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On December 11 2012 00:18 BoX wrote:
Wow Team Liquid is ruthless... A lot of you are so morally pure though, it's really impressive. You guys should use your true moral compasses to make a difference in the world and route out evil, rather than posting on a forum!
Although he had archaic and unfair political views, he contributed a great deal to the world. Ya he was very sexist/homophobic, but he did a lot of good for society. More than most of us have.
Nah, I'm satisfied by just actively not being racist or homophobic.
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As others have said, a terrible person who does a good thing is still a terrible person. Nothing he did for astronomy should eclipse his disgusting personality.
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In the UK we are as a nation recovering from the revelation that Jimmy Saville, a good TV memory for many people who grew up in the 80's, was a rampant and vicious predatory paedophile. The knowledge that Patrick Moore had expressed some rather distasteful views about women and homosexuals isn't even remotely on the same level of magnitude and it's something I don't believe makes a blind bit of difference to the legacy he had as an inspirer of scientists and astronomers.
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His views are mixed in my view. The comments on homosexuals and women I obviously don't agree with but the majority of his political beliefs were fine (based on that Wiki entry). Being against immigration doesn't make you racist, I don't know those early political parties he associated with but UKIP is a mainstream party in the UK. I consider myself English rather than British too, nothing is wrong with that sentiment. As for his distrust for "Germans and French", well I think it is easy to judge but don't forget that people who lived through WW2 all have a mark left on them which nobody today would understand. Lastly, I think him campaigning to outlaw animal hunting for fun is admirable.
He didn't use his TV show to promote these views, simply answered questions when asked in other mediums. I am not saying he is a saint, who is? Just this witch-hunt isn't needed.
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United Kingdom10017 Posts
On December 11 2012 00:24 Mortal wrote:
As others have said, a terrible person who does a good thing is still a terrible person. Nothing he did for astronomy should eclipse his disgusting personality.
Not true. He had a huge effect on the world of astronomy. There are countless top scientists today who say that the reason they got into astronomy was Patrick Moore.
He could have used this platform for political ends but never sought to push his views on to people using his TV show.
You have no evidence to say that his personality was disgusting, all you have are his opinions. Opinions do not make a personality. I have never seen anything to suggest he had anything but a weird and funny personality.
A man should be entitled to his views.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-patrick-moore-mirror-girls-1483024
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On December 11 2012 00:41 Aristodemus wrote:
His views are mixed in my view. The comments on homosexuals and women I obviously don't agree with but the majority of his political beliefs were fine (based on that Wiki entry). Being against immigration doesn't make you racist, I don't know those early political parties he associated with but UKIP is a mainstream party in the UK. I consider myself English rather than British too, nothing is wrong with that sentiment. As for his distrust for "Germans and French", well I think it is easy to judge but don't forget that people who lived through WW2 all have a mark left on them which nobody today would understand. Lastly, I think him campaigning to outlaw animal hunting for fun is admirable.
He didn't use his TV show to promote these views, simply answered questions when asked in other mediums. I am not saying he is a saint, who is? Just this witch-hunt isn't needed.
It's not so much a witch-hunt as it is people reacting to the honoring of someone who they don't really see as worthy of being honored.
I'm not saying people should be ashamed for honoring him, I just think it's worth considering that it can be a bit controversial to honor someone with those kind of views. An extreme example would be to make a topic "In memoriam: Hitler died 50 years ago". Now, I'm not comparing Moore to Hitler, at all, just explaining how it can be a bit of a loaded subject.
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On December 11 2012 00:18 BoX wrote:
Wow Team Liquid is ruthless... A lot of you are so morally pure though, it's really impressive. You guys should use your true moral compasses to make a difference in the world and route out evil, rather than posting on a forum!
Although he had archaic and unfair political views, he contributed a great deal to the world. Ya he was very sexist/homophobic, but he did a lot of good for society. More than most of us have.
Sorry but anyone who is a self-admitted misogynist and homophobic shouldn't be celebrated. It's not like he was from the 1800's and he never once changed his opinions to match the times. Fuck him and everyone like him.
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Deflecting to a pedophile seems pretty cheap, although it doesn't diminish the fact that his archaeic views on women/gays and bigotry are inexcusable, regardless of what era he was a part of. I didn't want to come here to shit on someone's childhood/adulthood hero or someone they looked up to, I just have a hard time looking past a shitty person despite the fact that he had a nice little show for quite some time (much longer than I've been around, so I'm not ignorant to the fact that he clearly did something right).
To claim his death was righteous or something ridiculous like that would be back-handed of me, so I'll just leave it with a RIP.
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Him saying he didn't want women in certain jobs is not the definition of a misogynist. Also, the world has changed a huge amount in his lifetime.
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I can't believe this is happening on TL. No person is perfect, every great person has a bad side. I doubt anyone on TL can name someone who was truly great that actually had nothing wrong with that person. This man was an old-aged rightwing conservative, and apparently that is not only an illegitamate view but so bad that we should curse him after his death, and just like most people born in the age during the beginning of the cold war and the end of WWII. Most people his age have some form of the "ancient regime" / "golden age is over now" feelings of what was. What he was talking about were things that were accepted in his time and are no longer accepted now. If you all hate him because he clings to the time he loves and remembers as best, you all are no less hateful than he. I'm not condoning it, but I don't condone this baseless hatred either.
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Let me ask you 2 questions:
1) What negative impact did his sexist/homophobic views have on the culture of the UK at large?
2) What positive impact did his shows have on the culture of the UK at large?
Answering those questions shows why people like the guy. Condemning a person for political views that had no impact on the actual state of the culture after he's dead is fucking pointless and shameful.
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On December 11 2012 01:02 docvoc wrote:
I can't believe this is happening on TL.
Yeah I'm in agreement with you. I mean, I see exactly why these guys don't like him, but meh, they could have just ignored the thread and let those of us who want put an RIP and say a few words. A little too sanctimonious for my liking too. If I were asked the question: would you like another like Patrick Moore to appear and present a TV program like The Sky at Night? I would say yes in a heartbeat, because with the exception of Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins I'm not a fan of any of the 'popular science' people around right now...
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He came to watch our school play, spoke to me about astronomy and gave me his signature. I think he is a bit of a legend.
He did fall asleep during the play though...
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"no everyone is perfect" ...please...
you cannot downplay a homophobic, racist, and sexist just because he was old. he used a well earned public platform to spew his utter bullshit that is cancerous to society/humanity. if you don't want to hear people condemn someone for being those things, then dont start a thread about a person who was openly guilty about all of them.
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On December 11 2012 01:06 deth2munkies wrote:
Condemning a person for political views that had no impact on the actual state of the culture after he's dead is fucking pointless and shameful.
He's not being condemned for his political views. Political views are akin to Conservative/Liberal ideologies, NOT discrimination of women and gays. The only thing shameful are his outdated and hateful beliefs.
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On December 11 2012 01:25 Destro wrote:
"no everyone is perfect" ...please...
you cannot downplay a homophobic, racist, and sexist just because he was old. he used a well earned public platform to spew his utter bullshit that is cancerous to society/humanity. if you don't want to hear people condemn someone for being those things, then dont start a thread about a person who was openly guilty about all of them.
Haha canceruous to society. With words like that you'd think he raped babies for a living or something instead of just having different values than you
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This guy isn't Malcolm X or Che Guevara. He wasn't a revolutionary or a genius political thinker. He wasn't a conflicted man who is misunderstood, or a victim of circumstances. He was a bitter hateful old douche who liked science. Joseph Mengele liked science too, and his studies brought us a lot of medical information, should we overlook the fact he murdered and experimented on people?
On December 11 2012 01:31 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:25 Destro wrote:
"no everyone is perfect" ...please...
you cannot downplay a homophobic, racist, and sexist just because he was old. he used a well earned public platform to spew his utter bullshit that is cancerous to society/humanity. if you don't want to hear people condemn someone for being those things, then dont start a thread about a person who was openly guilty about all of them.
Haha canceruous to society. With words like that you'd think he raped babies for a living or something instead of just having different values than you
Different values =/= Misogyny and Homophobia.
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On December 11 2012 01:32 Klipsys wrote:This guy isn't Malcolm X or Che Guevara. He wasn't a revolutionary or a genius political thinker. He wasn't a conflicted man who is misunderstood, or a victim of circumstances. He was a bitter hateful old douche who liked science. Joseph Mengele liked science too, and his studies brought us a lot of medical information, should we overlook the fact he murdered and experimented on people? Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:31 Solarist wrote:On December 11 2012 01:25 Destro wrote:
"no everyone is perfect" ...please...
you cannot downplay a homophobic, racist, and sexist just because he was old. he used a well earned public platform to spew his utter bullshit that is cancerous to society/humanity. if you don't want to hear people condemn someone for being those things, then dont start a thread about a person who was openly guilty about all of them.
Haha canceruous to society. With words like that you'd think he raped babies for a living or something instead of just having different values than you Different values =/= Misogyny and Homophobia.
You think Che Guevara was a good person?
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I only saw "in memoriam: Sir Patrick ..." and thought Sir Patrick Stewart passed away. Shock of the day.
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EPT
