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[QUOTE]On March 02 2006 11:00 Mynock wrote:
[QUOTE]On March 02 2006 09:58 -_- wrote:
[QUOTE]On March 02 2006 09:26 distant_voice wrote:
exactly[/QUOTE]
... I hate it when people try giving a bunch of links because it makes them look they posted something worthwhile, but in reality their stuff is shit.
The onion is a better source for news than the crap you gave me.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Hey -_-, buddy, why not tone it down a bit? Either start making sense along with civilized responses or just bail like the matamata guy.[/quote]
No. I will not "tone it down." Not when dealing with such a degree of stupidity and hate.
[quote]Most of us know it's impossible to get thru to someone who's convinced otherwise on this topic, not even enough to make them *watch* the evidence presented before them, so I'm not even gonna start on it. [/quote]
That's the beautiful thing with my proposition to you Mynock. I'm telling you to get in contact with media that are more than ready to be convinced that america is evil.
And there was no evidence in that video, so you might as well not watch it for all I care.
[quote]Why not take it to the media you say? Coz they know you people quite well too. If you are to dismiss everything we say to you now by never even giving a chance to go watch what we suggest, then how on Earth do you suppose any media outlet to want to go thru with it? Wouldn't you honestly just switch the channel if you ever saw anything of this on the TV? [/quote]
Are you telling me every media outlet in the world "know [us] people quite well," and wants to pander to the stupid americans? As I said above, you don't go to fox news. You go to the BBC. You don't have to go through people who dismiss what you say. You can sell your stuff to the pepole in afghanistan for all I care. Or wherever in the world you feel people hate america the most, but is decently respected as a news outlet.
And no, I wouldn't channel if it was on TV.
[quote] Also, these things are *quite* complicated. The world of politics just is. That's a fact. People don't like complicated, and what people don't like media won't show. Believing that you're under attack by a bad guy who envies your fr33dom seems to be perfectly enough for you. Hell, it doesn't go any simpler as that. It's the jews! It's the slant-eyes! It's the arabs! ... OK? [/quote]
No. That's not "OK." And it's quite simple to me. There is a conspiracy, or there isn't. You have facts, or you don't. You take your facts to somewhere where people are all too happy to put america down, or you're just using this conspiracy theory in order to act in accordance with your hateful ideology.
[quote]But just one example; as the movie Syriana came out a couple months ago, it was widely viewed/reviewed by the general public as boring. Boring, just like that. The simple answer to this phenomenon lies in the product's complexity. It just doesn't get thru to people (headache -> hamburger, etc.). [/quote]
I'm glad you keep writing stuff like that.
[quote]However, as time goes by, more and more people will be willing to shake the moss and face the obvious. These people will find a factual and well-opinionated discussion on this forum useful, and those who can, will be willing to help them by providing the necessary information.[/quote]
When the public looks on this thread, all they'll see is a the past persona of guy called Mynock who died after trying to swallow a frisbie.
[quote]And this is where you can do a part: either try and discuss matters in an appropriate manner (because right now both you and matamata were causing more harm than good to your own viewpoints, due to the rampant and incoherent manner of your tone), or just wait your turn, give yourself some time, and check back on the topic later, when you are ready and willing to know more on the matter. [/quote]
AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
AHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH indeed
Mynock got his shit ruined.
Let Me Elaborate:
Mynock has never once presented an acctual argument this whole thread. Let me take out all the fancy words and boil what he's saying down into what it is:
- Americans are dumb
- Bush = Hitler
- Supports the claims of the movie just by repeating them
- Makes fun of the opinions of a proffesor when he makes an obvious statement that he disagrees with. But when other proffesors mentioned in the video put out incomplete information their knowledge is to be respected because they agree with him.
- People who disagree with him vehemently need to calm down, but continuing to insult Americans is just fine.
- Politics is too complicated to understand, and people don't understand them.
- It's like Creationism vs. Evolution.
NEVER ONCE has Mynock ever supported the claims of the video, or refuted claims made against it. I'm not going to pretend that I can say why. Many other posters have made arguments against the video and Mynock hasn't said shit, simply discounting them as brainwashed. I WILL NOT waste my time debating this video with Mynock if he isn't willing to say anything other than what I have surmised above. And DO NOT fucking give me some bullshit about how I'm not understanding. I can fucking read and I know exaxtly what the fuck Mynock said.
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On March 02 2006 13:18 MyLostTemple wrote:
AHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
If you want to say something meaningful in opposition to what I said, cool.
If you want to to ignore me because I'm not worth it, go for it.
If you want to flame me, do your worst.
If you want to encourage me, spam.
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I don't like how people watch this and still say "this video had no evidence". this video was made up ENTIRELY of evidence. Whether or not the evidence is credible, however, is another story.
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Someone with $ and some brains do a TL.Net road trip and evaluate all the facts in the video. It'll make for a much more adventurous life than the one you have if you're still visiting TL.Net.
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On March 02 2006 13:32 cava wrote:
I don't like how people watch this and still say "this video had no evidence". this video was made up ENTIRELY of evidence. Whether or not the evidence is credible, however, is another story.
It's not that the video has no evidence, or even that all the facts are wrong, but it's the way that they are presented which makes them so bad.
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4492 Posts
On March 02 2006 13:25 DTDominion wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH indeed
Mynock got his shit ruined.
Indeed, now my "shit" is a pile of ruins. A tragic day for me. I've been posted at in caps. 
Let Me Elaborate:
Mynock has never once presented an acctual argument this whole thread. Let me take out all the fancy words and boil what he's saying down into what it is:
- Americans are dumb
- Bush = Hitler
- Supports the claims of the movie just by repeating them
- Makes fun of the opinions of a proffesor when he makes an obvious statement that he disagrees with. But when other proffesors mentioned in the video put out incomplete information their knowledge is to be respected because they agree with him.
- People who disagree with him vehemently need to calm down, but continuing to insult Americans is just fine.
- Politics is too complicated to understand, and people don't understand them.
- It's like Creationism vs. Evolution.
Oh, now my posts are difficult to understand too? See how it's necessary for you to try and juice things to a simple list so you can understand everything? Thanks for proving my point. But let me add a few points as well, in a convenient way, you will surely understand this:
-I'm only implying the extreme of the US public's mental density due to the fact that it's mostly an American affair. Had this stuff been pulled anywhere else like Holland, Katmandu, Türgiz, whatever, I wouldn't hesitate to call those people short-sighted. In fact I do so right now, since when it comes to Europe or Asia the "big bad terrorists" explanation is still prevailent.
-If you'd be so kind as to point where in my words have you ever read the implication "Bush=Hitler"...
-I never made fun of no professor, I made fun of the ridiculous statement, it has never been uttered by a man with any elementary education for all I care...
-On one account you're completely right: MyLostTemple, seriously, stop rambling ffs, you're not helping this topic any, thx. What's with all this caps and swearing anyway, you guys think it gets the point across?
NEVER ONCE has Mynock ever supported the claims of the video, or refuted claims made against it. I'm not going to pretend that I can say why. Many other posters have made arguments against the video and Mynock hasn't said shit, simply discounting them as brainwashed. I WILL NOT waste my time debating this video with Mynock if he isn't willing to say anything other than what I have surmised above. And DO NOT fucking give me some bullshit about how I'm not understanding. I can fucking read and I know exaxtly what the fuck Mynock said.
I'm reluctant to support or refute anything about that video (yes, I said refute, for there are things I disagree with about that film, especially the presentation) due to the fact that it's comepletely in vain. This is not the first time this topic has been brought here, nor is it the last one. Right now I'm perfectly content that it's even circulating here. Those who are interested in it will watch it. Those not willing will not. You are not among the people I'd like to argue with and prove my point to, because I know it's useless, I've stated that many times now. But maybe some other people will, argue with them if you must. Just respect other possibilities please.
-Mynock
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u know.. the only thing that worries me is the efficiency and effectiveness with which the towers fell.. i mean in all honesty it takes SKILL... WEEKS OF PLANNING etc. etc. to bring down two towers like that and not clear out any of the buildings around (some fell... yes. but others were demolished within days.. may i add)
I mean... IF THE MOONS ALIGN AND THE POWERS OF PROBABILITY COMBINES WITH FIREBALLS AND ALL THIS OTHER CRAP.. then sure... the towers would fall.. BUT WHAT ARE THE CHANCES??? I mean come on... WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENING... The towers collapsing like that??? Honestly. Think about it. WHY DOES IT TAKE SO MUCH SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION? ... oh wait... maybe the company that designed the towers was just crap... i think they'd have something to say about it if u told them their structure was crap... but hey... they're not allowed to speak because that would defeat the argument against the afghanis and would ruin a whole bunch of other poor U.S. decisions...
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Mynock rocks, he's taking the sane approach to all this. Nobody is saying that "OMFG FOR SURE THERE'S A CONSPIRACY, BUSH IS HITLER!!! AHHH!" All we're saying is, at least consider some of the unasnwered questions.
Why is there no evidence that this is a consipacry? Because the government has covered it up!
Why doesn't the govt release the security camera videos of the plane hitting the Pentagon?
Why don't they release the tapes from the blackboxes of the plane? (Or were those incinarated in the super high heat caused by the Jet fule too?)
Also someone up there said that it would be impossible to get such a diverse group of people all to participate in this consipiracy and not keep their mouths shut. That part is actually pretty easy if you think about it. All the individual agents don't have to be told why they're given a particular assignment, just to do it. Peons don't have to know the grand scheme of things. Further, it's been fucking proven in sociology experiments (Milgram iirc) that the majority of people will obey orders given by those in position of authority even if it means hurting or killing others. And if that weren't enough, you'd be surprised how much silence money can buy.
Everyone so far is focusing on one part of this whole thing, namely the tower collapse. What about some of the other questions? (two mentioned above)
Why were bomb sniffing dogs removed in the days prior to 9/11?
Why did a siesmology graph record a level 2 earthquake? (forget the stupid tripod, this is the actual science of it)
Why were people buying those put options, of respectable companies, LIKE MAD, before 9/11? Why did people inside the towers dump all their stocks right before the disaster? (don't give me some crap that it was recommended in some business magazine, that doesn't cause people to unethically dump stocks and participate in insider trading)
These are just a few questions, I don't remember all of them from the video but these are key. All you people arguing against this consiparacy theory stfu about the towers collapsing and answer these questions. You haven't done that so far, all you've done is skew the argument by making false analogies and stupid comparasins to try to get away from the main points (ie bringing up over and over "personal attacks" how "everyone hates america" and trying to imply that someone said "Bush = Hitler" sorry guys, that shit doesn't fly, stick to the main argument)
I suppose all you people who discount this video still think Oswald shot Kennedy from the book depository even though it was proven that the bullets could not have come from that direction? Please grow up and realize you're not living in a perfect world, the government has lied to you before, and will continue to lie to you as long as you continue to gobble up all the garbage you're bieng fed like good little "patriots".
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if there were suspicious stock market transactions then why hasn't some reliable news source like bbcnews covered that?
edit: and theres nothing conclusive about the US government declining to release blackboxes or security tapes... they don't release the time of day voluntarily let alone blackboxes and security tapes.
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Say your mom goes to a store, is murdered there, and the store doesn't want to release the security tapes of the event? You wouldn't consider that suspicous? And just because the government doesn't normally do something doesn't make it any less suspicious. The government should be just as liable for it's actions as any citizen of it's country. That means if I'm a suspect in a murder case the police is gonna search my house for all evidence. Yet if we (the citizens) want to know something about our government we can't? Is that fair?
As for the news media, we've already gone over that. The American people don't want to hear that their government has betrayed them, so the media isn't going to put on anything that even remotly suggests that. The damn company that did the recovery of information on the hard drives that were in the WTC during 9/11 found and reported this information. Why do u need media confirmation?
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one thing I find funny is how everybody in a heartbeat belive that a boeing 757(am I right) hit the pentagon, where as it seems it was more like a firecracker that blew up there. this same kind of plane took out an entire empire state building..
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I have more faith in humanity than to say 9/11 was set-up by the government. Bush isn't smart, but the people who'd orchestrate this whole thing would be, and i don't think they'd have such an ill-researched and mediocre cover-up for something of this magnitude. They're covering something up, but i don't think its what these conspiracy theorists are suggesting.
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Boeing 767 wasn't it? Are there people who actually doubt that it was the cause of the planecrash and instead other conspiracy methods?
Of course a plane that size can take out a building of that size. The impact won't be enough, but when a couple of tons of 140+ octane fuel burns, you'll have one great bonfire, and finally the heat will melt the metal and and eat away the support that is left of the building, and the floors on top will come crashing down, and in turn smash the rest of the building down into the ground.
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On March 02 2006 15:44 z7-TranCe wrote:
I have more faith in humanity than to say 9/11 was set-up by the government. Bush isn't smart, but the people who'd orchestrate this whole thing would be, and i don't think they'd have such an ill-researched and mediocre cover-up for something of this magnitude. They're covering something up, but i don't think its what these conspiracy theorists are suggesting.
What do u think it is that they're covering up?
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On March 02 2006 15:58 Luhh wrote:
Boeing 767 wasn't it? Are there people who actually doubt that it was the cause of the planecrash and instead other conspiracy methods?
Of course a plane that size can take out a building of that size. The impact won't be enough, but when a couple of tons of 140+ octane fuel burns, you'll have one great bonfire, and finally the heat will melt the metal and and eat away the support that is left of the building, and the floors on top will come crashing down, and in turn smash the rest of the building down into the ground.
And that will cause the building to fall neatly at freefall speed?
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what I mean was this
the pentagon versa WTC, both were hit by a boeing 767
But the videos and pics from the crashsite at pentagon...its looks as if a damn cesna or something flew into it...but ppl had no problems beliving it was a boeing 767 that caused that little damage and almost no debre. But it could take down WTC.
what iam trying to say is that no damn 767 hit pentagon
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the building did not fall, the top came crushing down on top of it.
Why doesn't the govt release the security camera videos of the plane hitting the Pentagon?
Why don't they release the tapes from the blackboxes of the plane? I think our gov't, and any gov't, typically does not like to pander and obey anything the public demands. To them it is confidential information, they dont wany anybody seeing it. It is like negotiating with terrorists, the moment you do it, you open the flood doors for more terrorism. If the gov't willfully gives the public every tidbit of information it wishes then we will continue to request information, and the moment something the gov't does not want released everyone freaks out and instantly calls coverup, in which case they would probably be right. So the basis is, ignore the public, leave them in doubt, so they can never be sure of your motives.
Further, it's been fucking proven in sociology experiments (Milgram iirc) that the majority of people will obey orders given by those in position of authority even if it means hurting or killing others. In military circumstances yes, but these were civilian contractors, regular every day companies participating in a goverment funded mass murder conspiracy. If the entire thing was orchestrated by the military then i would have a much easier time believing it, those guys are brainwashed to pull the trigger without thinking. If they are told to plant bombs in a preschool they will do it. But are you telling me if your boss at the grocery store told you to put a pipe bomb in the register you would do it simply because he ordered you? No, you are not brainwashed, you have a concience and challenge authority. There were too many outside variables to all convince to play in on this.
Why were bomb sniffing dogs removed in the days prior to 9/11? i dont know.
Why did a siesmology graph record a level 2 earthquake? The impact of the buildings tumbling to the ground caused these levels of shock tremors. It has been stated the only way a bomb could do this was if it was detonated beneath the ground, in a contained area like the sub-level basements, which would compress the pressure of the bomb making it all the more explosive (light a firecracker in your fist and lose a finger, hold it in your palm and maybe get a light burn). But we all know the base of the building was not blown, it obviously crumbled from the top down. Even the video claims this, showing the windows blasting outwards beaneath the crumbling debris, and their demolotion videos also depict explosives being planted all over the buildings, almost on every floor, not just at the bottom.
Why were people buying those put options, of respectable companies, LIKE MAD, before 9/11? Why did people inside the towers dump all their stocks right before the disaster? (don't give me some crap that it was recommended in some business magazine, that doesn't cause people to unethically dump stocks and participate in insider trading) Uh yes it does. A magazine recommending someone to trade a particular stock does not count as insider trading. They do this all the time. The movie fails to mention exactly WHO was dumping put options and stocks from these airliners, and what other airliners (if any). They leave you assuming that only people who worked in the wtc (those who died?!) or people somehow connected to the event were doing this.
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Your view on the gov't is ridiculous saibot, I'm sorry. I hold the fundemental belief that the citizens of a govt (from which that govt derives ALL it's power) have the right to know EVERYTHING the govt knows if it pertains to it's citizens. What I mean by this, the citizens shouldn't be able to know designs for top secret weapons/viruses etc obviously. But we should be able to see basic security tapes, what does the govt have to hide?
It is like negotiating with terrorists, the moment you do it, you open the flood doors for more terrorism. If the gov't willfully gives the public every tidbit of information it wishes then we will continue to request information...
Slipery slope falacy my friend, and a false analogy. I'm not asking for EVERY piece of information, there's obviously sensative military and intelligence info that nobody needs to know. All I'm asking for is simple security videos and black boxes. All I'm asking for is a thourough investigation of the buildings' debris before it's all sent to be recycled. I think every person has a right to know this information.
Do you even know what the milgram experiments were? He didn't do them in a "military circumstance" he did them to ordinary people. And the guy in position of authority was just some random dude in a lab coat who the people thought was a scientist. He ordered them to shock a person (they weren't really shocking anyone obviously, it was just an experiment) in another room. 70% of people went all the way to the level of "killing" the person in the other room, simply because they were told to by a guy in a lab coat. People are easily manipulated into doing things, that's just the way we're wired. In order to survive people have to work together, and that means we're wired to follow orders.
About the siesmology record, you even say yourself:
It has been stated the only way a bomb could do this was if it was detonated beneath the ground, in a contained area like the sub-level basements, which would compress the pressure of the bomb making it all the more explosive (light a firecracker in your fist and lose a finger, hold it in your palm and maybe get a light burn).
If it takes a bomb exploading in an underground area to cause the ground to shake how is it possible that shit falling from the top will cause it to shake? It's impossible. That's not how earthquakes work. The ONLY way to simulate earthqakes is to plant bombs underground.
That's what I was saying about the put options. Ok maybe they were being traded because of some business magazine. But why were people DUMPING thousands (millions? I don't recall exactly) of stocks right before the event. Dumping stocks like that w/o any explanation is unethical business behavior. It doesn't matter who did it, all that matters is it was done, and that's been proven by the company that recovered the data from the hard drive.
Again this isn't absolute proof that there was a conspiracy, but it's waaaaay too many coincidences and unexplained things.
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EPT
