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On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty".
Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia?
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On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". That is just wrong. For example, in a generic Islamic culture the belief system itself will be homophobic regardless of what individuals who identify themselves with it believe.
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On August 12 2012 02:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:15 r.Evo wrote:On August 12 2012 02:07 Thorakh wrote:Then again, they did not have that stupid idea that skin color equals superiority or inferiority. And neither does anyone in this thread. Race =/= culture. Racism is bad. 'Culturalism' is not. What. So you'd be fine if there would be a movement promoting the superiority of the German/American/Russian culture with the obvious incentive to free all people with lesser culture so they can finally live the same dream as everyone who is already part of the superior culture? Race, culture, religion, actually ANY idea with the built in promise that it's superior and that wrongbelievers (or those with the wrong blood) have to be purged or, sorry, enlightened leads to pretty similar results. People from different cultures/races/religions are... guess what: Different. No policy and no amount of talk you can do will convince anyone from anything else. People don't want to be from the same tribe so to speak. Encouraging that being different is completely okay would be a start instead of telling everyone that it's not okay and that they should be more similar to each other. What you've just argued is that purging is bad and therefore any issue which purging could be used as a solution to shouldn't be recognised as an issue. Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid.
Truely homophobic and sexist cultures, in other words cultures where the raped women is guilty and where homosexuals are persecuted and killed, are indeed inferior.
But I'm not sure if that's what you meant by that.
If by sexist/homophobic cultures you mean cultures in which men and women are not undifferentiated entities who can occupy the same jobs and do the same things, then your idea of a Western culture is different to the traditional European culture, and foreign as well.
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On August 12 2012 03:06 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:19 KwarK wrote:On August 12 2012 02:15 r.Evo wrote:On August 12 2012 02:07 Thorakh wrote:Then again, they did not have that stupid idea that skin color equals superiority or inferiority. And neither does anyone in this thread. Race =/= culture. Racism is bad. 'Culturalism' is not. What. So you'd be fine if there would be a movement promoting the superiority of the German/American/Russian culture with the obvious incentive to free all people with lesser culture so they can finally live the same dream as everyone who is already part of the superior culture? Race, culture, religion, actually ANY idea with the built in promise that it's superior and that wrongbelievers (or those with the wrong blood) have to be purged or, sorry, enlightened leads to pretty similar results. People from different cultures/races/religions are... guess what: Different. No policy and no amount of talk you can do will convince anyone from anything else. People don't want to be from the same tribe so to speak. Encouraging that being different is completely okay would be a start instead of telling everyone that it's not okay and that they should be more similar to each other. What you've just argued is that purging is bad and therefore any issue which purging could be used as a solution to shouldn't be recognised as an issue. Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Truely homophobic and sexist cultures, in other words cultures where the raped women is guilty and where homosexuals are persecuted and killed, are indeed inferior. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant by that. If by sexist/homophobic cultures you mean cultures in which men and women are not undifferentiated entities who can occupy the same jobs and do the same things, then your idea of a Western culture is different to the traditional European culture, and foreign as well. That's why the traditional European culture is inferior as well.
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In my younger days I was pro-multiculturalism all the way. In part because this is what we're taught in the school systems here. However as an older individual, I see a lot of problems with multiculturalism even in the peaceful city of Toronto. A lot of people are secretly racist, and only like to affliate with their own groups. And I find that when people DO put aside differences of background, its because they've found a stronger bond to tie them together: materialism! Yes, I find being a rich snob is what unites people most of all. If you're poor you're a racist, if you're rich you're only racist against the poor. End cynical rant.
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United States42010 Posts
On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty".
Muslim culture is a misnomer, Islam is a religion. Modern arab culture is oppressive and bigoted, inferior to western culture in many ways.
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On August 12 2012 03:14 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Muslim culture is a misnomer, Islam is a religion. Modern arab culture is oppressive and bigoted, inferior to western culture in many ways.
Too bad you cant say that in modern Britain or the neohippies will stone you.  Hence why nobody uttered a word when shit like the Rochdale rapes happened.
And yes I fully agree with you.
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On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia?
Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil
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On August 12 2012 03:33 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia? Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil
doesn't really matter what's going on, if you get in you get everything for free.
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On August 12 2012 03:43 zomgE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:33 D10 wrote:On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia? Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil doesn't really matter what's going on, if you get in you get everything for free.
True + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2012 21:22 Sepi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 11 2012 21:11 Bahamut1337 wrote:
I think Finland has a model we should follow, it forces people to join society. Its not like Sweden where a Somali can get 8 kids and make the taxpayer pay for it.
Wrong. We pay much more than swedish people per immigrant. Our numbers just arent in the swedish level to match their overall expenses. [Edit] Just to add, i read an article that we give something near to 2000 euros average per immigrant for month ( Grown ups with families). I think it was 2nd best rated in the world. It was more than twice compared to many other european countries. So we fully provide everything to them that they need in order to adapt to the society. I don't remember it exactly because it was more than a year ago in a newspaper, but it tells definately something.
There is a line of people trying to get in nordic countries, and you bet it isn't a short one.
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On August 12 2012 03:33 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia? Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil
Not Sweden, I say to my great disappointment. Our unswerving determination to adapt to even to most absurd values and most repulsive traditions of foreign countries on the thinly veiled pretext of tolerance and inclusiveness is as ardent as ever.
Social friction and segregation are becoming real problems though, we'll see what happens.
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On August 12 2012 03:10 JeanLuc wrote:
In my younger days I was pro-multiculturalism all the way. In part because this is what we're taught in the school systems here. However as an older individual, I see a lot of problems with multiculturalism even in the peaceful city of Toronto. A lot of people are secretly racist, and only like to affliate with their own groups. And I find that when people DO put aside differences of background, its because they've found a stronger bond to tie them together: materialism! Yes, I find being a rich snob is what unites people most of all. If you're poor you're a racist, if you're rich you're only racist against the poor. End cynical rant.
That isn't a problem with multiculturalism as much as a problem with the people of Toronto. For as much crap as the US gets for our Bible Belt population, multiculturalism is becoming a reality here. Living in the Mid-North East has probably skewed my perception a great deal, but in my community I see Indian, Korea, Chinese, White, Hispanic and Black kids playing together, being friends. It sounds like some sappy politically correct TV commercial, but it's happening. I'm half chinese, one of my neighboring families are black, the others are also half chinese (mainland china, I'm not). There is a half indian, half black family living 3 doors down and all 3 of their children are products of the Naval Academy and proud members of the Armed Forces. Even amongst my group of friends we have about every ethnicity represented. We all still hold on to our cultures and remain aware of the small differences. IMO, a lot of present day racism derives from strict adherence to religion, especially Christianity, which makes clear distinctions between "believers" and "non-believers". That and highly undeducated people who don't realize that genetically we are more than 99% alike.
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On August 12 2012 03:51 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:33 D10 wrote:On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia? Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil Not Sweden, I say to my great disappointment. Our unswerving determination to adapt to even to most absurd values and most repulsive traditions of foreign countries on the thinly veiled pretext of tolerance and inclusiveness is as ardent as ever. Social friction and segregation are becoming real problems though, we'll see what happens.
How do you suffer being on Team Liquid? I don't get it. I've always seen Team Liquid as a pretty multicultural/multiethnic body. Or you can only tolerate infererior non-blond- non-blue eyed races over the internet, but god forbid they try to live in your country? I found it funny that in the Olympics, many of the traditionally White Nordic countries still sent Black athletes to compete. Just something I noticed.
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On August 12 2012 03:51 SupLilSon wrote:That isn't a problem with multiculturalism as much as a problem with the people of Toronto. For as much crap as the US gets for our Bible Belt population, multiculturalism is becoming a reality here. Living in the Mid-North East has probably skewed my perception a great deal, but in my community I see Indian, Korea, Chinese, White, Hispanic and Black kids playing together, being friends. It sounds like some sappy politically correct TV commercial, but it's happening. I'm half chinese, one of my neighboring families are black, the others are also half chinese (mainland china, I'm not). There is a half indian, half black family living 3 doors down and all 3 of their children are products of the Naval Academy and proud members of the Armed Forces. Even amongst my group of friends we have about every ethnicity represented. We all still hold on to our cultures and remain aware of the small differences. IMO, a lot of present day racism derives from strict adherence to religion, especially Christianity, which makes clear distinctions between "believers" and "non-believers". That and highly undeducated people who don't realize that genetically we are more than 99% alike.
On August 12 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:How do you suffer being on Team Liquid? I don't get it. I've always seen Team Liquid as a pretty multicultural/multiethnic body. Or you can only tolerate infererior non-blond- non-blue eyed races over the internet, but god forbid they try to live in your country? I found it funny that in the Olympics, many of the traditionally White Nordic countries still sent Black athletes to compete. Just something I noticed.
ethnicity != culture
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On August 11 2012 20:53 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote:On August 11 2012 19:58 Sepi wrote:
I'm kinda disgusted about the people who just come to the country and leech ALL out of the social security system. There have been SO many cases in my country where people lie to the government, mainly about their childs and heatl condition etc. to get max support from the governemnt. We as tax payers must pay this all. And they still complain how they have just 60 square meter house FOR FREE. Its ridiculous.
Luckily there is a counterweight to this immigration, because there are a lot good people. Who acts just like us, does work and tries to proceed in their career. I higlhy respect these people as they can ADAPT to other enviroment and work their hart out to have what they deserve.
Even all the sexual crimes are mostly committed by immigrates. The studies that i have read, also indicate that its HIGHLY possible that they will continue to commit crimes. In my law system there is no way to kick any people out. They just get 1-2 years of probation and something like 1000 euros of indemnity or something like that.
Im no racist at all, but it just makes me sick how they can be so abusive, and yet so arrogant. Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. Well, when almost all the sexual crimes are comitted by immigrants, some people might consider that a problem worth adressing.
Is this actually a fact? Do you have numbers backing up (from a legit source) that 'almost all' sexual crimes are commited by immigrants? By immigrant I assume you mean people who don't have white skin.
Afaik most of this is propaganda made up by the far right. That's atleast the case in Sweden. Time and time again the far right nut jobs make up their own statistics which gets shut down in the parliament as it's not based in facts.
On August 11 2012 21:11 Bahamut1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote:On August 11 2012 19:58 Sepi wrote:
I'm kinda disgusted about the people who just come to the country and leech ALL out of the social security system. There have been SO many cases in my country where people lie to the government, mainly about their childs and heatl condition etc. to get max support from the governemnt. We as tax payers must pay this all. And they still complain how they have just 60 square meter house FOR FREE. Its ridiculous.
Luckily there is a counterweight to this immigration, because there are a lot good people. Who acts just like us, does work and tries to proceed in their career. I higlhy respect these people as they can ADAPT to other enviroment and work their hart out to have what they deserve.
Even all the sexual crimes are mostly committed by immigrates. The studies that i have read, also indicate that its HIGHLY possible that they will continue to commit crimes. In my law system there is no way to kick any people out. They just get 1-2 years of probation and something like 1000 euros of indemnity or something like that.
Im no racist at all, but it just makes me sick how they can be so abusive, and yet so arrogant. Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. I think Finland has a model we should follow, it forces people to join society. Its not like Sweden where a Somali can get 8 kids and make the taxpayer pay for it. You seem to avoid the rest of his post, Immigrants are more criminal, less educated, cheat the system more, rape more etc. If you would have a society with 30-40 percent immigrants it would be unliveable. Also Where are the Swedish Jews? Oh most left due to immigration from intolerant groups? Oh wow that is something to be proud off! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html
I think pretty much everyone here is free to get as many children as they want. You don't have to be Somali to have 8 children.
Once again I would like to point out that crimes don't originate from your skin colour or country of origin, but rather what education you have and how you're treated by society. With good integration there isn't a difference in crime rates.
Malmö is pretty much the texas of Sweden to begin with. Now with an added bonus that a lot of our immigrants end up there. It's not a very good situation for anyone. The integration definitely failed.
I know for instance that the ministry of integration or however you translate it had a banquet when they managed to deport X amount of people. The suburbs there are just a really bad place to be nowadays.
On August 11 2012 21:22 Sepi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote:
Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland?
Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population.
Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. [...] Haha, now its you who brings up the mileading stereotypes that doesnt belong in this discussion. Dont know anything about your hobos really and i dont care. Just to note that we dont see that much of them here on public lol. I do not see how its racist policy if you dont let everyone to come to LIVE in your country whitout working or doing any good to the society like swedish do. Its not like the all of them is unemployed, but you cant deny that there is MUCH of them in your society. The multiculturaliaism is part of your society now, and there is no denying it but i cannot see why you see it as racist policy if everyone doesn't follow? I do not complain about immigrants, and i think its a good thing. It just my personal opinion, that in long time run they should be forced to try to earn their living by them selves. I get it that it takes time to settle in new enviroment and society, but majority of unemployed foreign people even do not try really to get any work, its just that our social security system encourages that kind of life style. Its not because of multiculturalism. What im trying to point out is, do they really need the 1/4-1/3 or more to be immigrants to get that actual multicultural feeling, which could lead to them blending in to the society better? Or is it just that many of these people are lazy when they suddenly get all these benefits, so they don't have to contribute any good in the foreign society? Don't really know. I bet there is no answer : (
Obviously no country lets everyone come to live. Sweden and a lot of other countries see it as helping people out of a rough spot. It's the same reason people donate to charity. I guess there isn't a lot of charity going on in Finland. Finland is largely considered racist because you basically don't let anyone in. You have a country with 2% immigrants. That's including Scandinavians, Europeans, Americans, Asians and such. I assume by 'immigrants' you mean muslims.
I guess you don't see your hobos because alcohol is cheaper in Sweden.
What exactly do you actually know about foreign people? What are your experiences that have lead to you believe that they do not try and do not work? It is true however that the social security system often encourages it.
On August 11 2012 21:54 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 20:47 Euronyme wrote:On August 11 2012 19:58 Sepi wrote:
I'm kinda disgusted about the people who just come to the country and leech ALL out of the social security system. There have been SO many cases in my country where people lie to the government, mainly about their childs and heatl condition etc. to get max support from the governemnt. We as tax payers must pay this all. And they still complain how they have just 60 square meter house FOR FREE. Its ridiculous.
Luckily there is a counterweight to this immigration, because there are a lot good people. Who acts just like us, does work and tries to proceed in their career. I higlhy respect these people as they can ADAPT to other enviroment and work their hart out to have what they deserve.
Even all the sexual crimes are mostly committed by immigrates. The studies that i have read, also indicate that its HIGHLY possible that they will continue to commit crimes. In my law system there is no way to kick any people out. They just get 1-2 years of probation and something like 1000 euros of indemnity or something like that.
Im no racist at all, but it just makes me sick how they can be so abusive, and yet so arrogant. Wow really? Do you actually live in Finland? Holy shit that's just sad. You're famous for having one of the most racist social policies, and one of the absolute smallest immigration rates in all of Europe, and yet you complain there's too much? You have 150k immigrants and children of immigrants total, which equals a 2% of the population. Don't you have more serious issues than that? Alcoholism for instance? I seem to recall that just about every hobo in Sweden speaks with a Finnish accent. Irony at it's finest.
Is it? I'm pretty sure Swedish and Finns have the same pasty white skin colour last time I checked. The issue is racism, because the only group targeted is arab muslims and black people. When people throw the word 'immigrant' around, I don't think they would include a German guy.
_____
Sorry for throwing in a mega post late. I had to run.
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On August 12 2012 03:07 Thorakh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:06 SiroKO wrote:On August 12 2012 02:19 KwarK wrote:On August 12 2012 02:15 r.Evo wrote:On August 12 2012 02:07 Thorakh wrote:Then again, they did not have that stupid idea that skin color equals superiority or inferiority. And neither does anyone in this thread. Race =/= culture. Racism is bad. 'Culturalism' is not. What. So you'd be fine if there would be a movement promoting the superiority of the German/American/Russian culture with the obvious incentive to free all people with lesser culture so they can finally live the same dream as everyone who is already part of the superior culture? Race, culture, religion, actually ANY idea with the built in promise that it's superior and that wrongbelievers (or those with the wrong blood) have to be purged or, sorry, enlightened leads to pretty similar results. People from different cultures/races/religions are... guess what: Different. No policy and no amount of talk you can do will convince anyone from anything else. People don't want to be from the same tribe so to speak. Encouraging that being different is completely okay would be a start instead of telling everyone that it's not okay and that they should be more similar to each other. What you've just argued is that purging is bad and therefore any issue which purging could be used as a solution to shouldn't be recognised as an issue. Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Truely homophobic and sexist cultures, in other words cultures where the raped women is guilty and where homosexuals are persecuted and killed, are indeed inferior. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant by that. If by sexist/homophobic cultures you mean cultures in which men and women are not undifferentiated entities who can occupy the same jobs and do the same things, then your idea of a Western culture is different to the traditional European culture, and foreign as well. That's why the traditional European culture is inferior as well.
So your idea of a counter-culture is an individualistic society composed of undifferentiated entities who share no real culture, except tolerating few stuff.
No wonder why the conversions to Islam are skyrocketting in Europe.
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On August 12 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:51 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 03:33 D10 wrote:On August 12 2012 02:58 McBengt wrote:On August 12 2012 02:54 Cele wrote:Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Whole cultures arent shitty. Individuals, that belong to a certain culture can be shitty. For example you can´t identify a cultural group, that´s collective homophobic. Influential groups or even the majority might be, but not everybody. It leads inevitable to discrimination if you claim that for example, "the whole muslimic culture is sexist and thus shitty". Roleplay time. You are a homosexual woman who likes to travel alone and drive cars. Where would you rather live, Norway or Saudi Arabia? Doesnt nordic countries have a big anti immigrant thing going on ? If I was that woman id rather go to Brazil Not Sweden, I say to my great disappointment. Our unswerving determination to adapt to even to most absurd values and most repulsive traditions of foreign countries on the thinly veiled pretext of tolerance and inclusiveness is as ardent as ever. Social friction and segregation are becoming real problems though, we'll see what happens. How do you suffer being on Team Liquid? I don't get it. I've always seen Team Liquid as a pretty multicultural/multiethnic body. Or you can only tolerate infererior non-blond- non-blue eyed races over the internet, but god forbid they try to live in your country? I found it funny that in the Olympics, many of the traditionally White Nordic countries still sent Black athletes to compete. Just something I noticed.
Did you somehow extrapolate racist views from what I wrote? My best friend since third grade is from Iran. My coach and several training partners of mine are from Brazil. I worked for for three years with a turkish guy, we still hang out.
It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of an individual person, it has to do with my country's lack of testicular fortitude in standing up for the core principles of our society. Some things just aren't desirable in a society that aims for equality.
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On August 12 2012 04:04 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:51 SupLilSon wrote:That isn't a problem with multiculturalism as much as a problem with the people of Toronto. For as much crap as the US gets for our Bible Belt population, multiculturalism is becoming a reality here. Living in the Mid-North East has probably skewed my perception a great deal, but in my community I see Indian, Korea, Chinese, White, Hispanic and Black kids playing together, being friends. It sounds like some sappy politically correct TV commercial, but it's happening. I'm half chinese, one of my neighboring families are black, the others are also half chinese (mainland china, I'm not). There is a half indian, half black family living 3 doors down and all 3 of their children are products of the Naval Academy and proud members of the Armed Forces. Even amongst my group of friends we have about every ethnicity represented. We all still hold on to our cultures and remain aware of the small differences. IMO, a lot of present day racism derives from strict adherence to religion, especially Christianity, which makes clear distinctions between "believers" and "non-believers". That and highly undeducated people who don't realize that genetically we are more than 99% alike. Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:How do you suffer being on Team Liquid? I don't get it. I've always seen Team Liquid as a pretty multicultural/multiethnic body. Or you can only tolerate infererior non-blond- non-blue eyed races over the internet, but god forbid they try to live in your country? I found it funny that in the Olympics, many of the traditionally White Nordic countries still sent Black athletes to compete. Just something I noticed. ethnicity != culture
Each of these ethnic groups carries a different culture..
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On August 12 2012 04:09 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 03:07 Thorakh wrote:On August 12 2012 03:06 SiroKO wrote:On August 12 2012 02:19 KwarK wrote:On August 12 2012 02:15 r.Evo wrote:On August 12 2012 02:07 Thorakh wrote:Then again, they did not have that stupid idea that skin color equals superiority or inferiority. And neither does anyone in this thread. Race =/= culture. Racism is bad. 'Culturalism' is not. What. So you'd be fine if there would be a movement promoting the superiority of the German/American/Russian culture with the obvious incentive to free all people with lesser culture so they can finally live the same dream as everyone who is already part of the superior culture? Race, culture, religion, actually ANY idea with the built in promise that it's superior and that wrongbelievers (or those with the wrong blood) have to be purged or, sorry, enlightened leads to pretty similar results. People from different cultures/races/religions are... guess what: Different. No policy and no amount of talk you can do will convince anyone from anything else. People don't want to be from the same tribe so to speak. Encouraging that being different is completely okay would be a start instead of telling everyone that it's not okay and that they should be more similar to each other. What you've just argued is that purging is bad and therefore any issue which purging could be used as a solution to shouldn't be recognised as an issue. Some cultures are shitty, identifying that homophobic/sexist cultures are worse than none homophobic/sexist cultures doesn't mean I am in favour of purges. Acting like they're all equal but different ignores potential humanitarian solutions through education and aid. Truely homophobic and sexist cultures, in other words cultures where the raped women is guilty and where homosexuals are persecuted and killed, are indeed inferior. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant by that. If by sexist/homophobic cultures you mean cultures in which men and women are not undifferentiated entities who can occupy the same jobs and do the same things, then your idea of a Western culture is different to the traditional European culture, and foreign as well. That's why the traditional European culture is inferior as well. So your idea of a counter-culture is an individualistic society composed of undifferentiated entities who share no real culture, except tolerating few stuff. No wonder why the conversion to Islam is skyrocketting in Europe. No, my idea of society is a mix of open cultures who respect each other and have no 'values' which dictate the oppressing or harming of others.
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On August 12 2012 04:12 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 04:04 DisneylandSC wrote:On August 12 2012 03:51 SupLilSon wrote:That isn't a problem with multiculturalism as much as a problem with the people of Toronto. For as much crap as the US gets for our Bible Belt population, multiculturalism is becoming a reality here. Living in the Mid-North East has probably skewed my perception a great deal, but in my community I see Indian, Korea, Chinese, White, Hispanic and Black kids playing together, being friends. It sounds like some sappy politically correct TV commercial, but it's happening. I'm half chinese, one of my neighboring families are black, the others are also half chinese (mainland china, I'm not). There is a half indian, half black family living 3 doors down and all 3 of their children are products of the Naval Academy and proud members of the Armed Forces. Even amongst my group of friends we have about every ethnicity represented. We all still hold on to our cultures and remain aware of the small differences. IMO, a lot of present day racism derives from strict adherence to religion, especially Christianity, which makes clear distinctions between "believers" and "non-believers". That and highly undeducated people who don't realize that genetically we are more than 99% alike. On August 12 2012 03:58 SupLilSon wrote:How do you suffer being on Team Liquid? I don't get it. I've always seen Team Liquid as a pretty multicultural/multiethnic body. Or you can only tolerate infererior non-blond- non-blue eyed races over the internet, but god forbid they try to live in your country? I found it funny that in the Olympics, many of the traditionally White Nordic countries still sent Black athletes to compete. Just something I noticed. ethnicity != culture Each of these ethnic groups carries a different culture.. He should've said: race/skin color =/= culture.
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EPT
