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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 16 2012 07:39 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:38 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:33 DoubleReed wrote:On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yes, well the Muslim Brotherhood has been gaining power in many many countries, including Turkey of all places. They are well funded, well coordinated, and have a lot going for them. They are a lot less racist and divisive then a lot of organizations, because they welcome all Muslims. Look at what is happening in the UK right now: http://tehrantimes.com/world/102400-10000-protest-anti-muslim-video-at-googles-uk-hqThis trend is very troubling. Indeed, it is troubling, but to brush it off simply by saying "They hate our freedomz!!1" is ridiculous. The Muslim Brotherhood was not formed nor has it been gaining power simply because "They hate our freedomz!!1" Well in this case they actually do hate our freedoms...
Yeah, they do hate that there is a viral video insulting their prophet; however, there are underlying factors that cause them to riot and participate in violent protests, just like there are underlying causes as to why the Muslim Brotherhood was formed and is gaining power, and just like there are underlying causes as to why people participate in terrorism.
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On October 16 2012 07:27 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yeah, I just finished watching the Yale Open Course on the Early Middle Ages, and the lecturer was basically saying that the entire reason Islam was so successful was because of how tolerant it was of other religions, similar to how the Romans were
You must also have learned that this tolerance varied widely over the ages.
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On October 16 2012 07:42 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:27 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yeah, I just finished watching the Yale Open Course on the Early Middle Ages, and the lecturer was basically saying that the entire reason Islam was so successful was because of how tolerant it was of other religions, similar to how the Romans were You must also have learned that this tolerance varied widely over the ages.
Like other religions we could name...
re the brotherhood, it was my impression that it was a fairly progressive movement within Islam. Obviously it's not like any source is unbiased and I haven't been following it that closely
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On October 16 2012 07:44 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:42 xDaunt wrote:On October 16 2012 07:27 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yeah, I just finished watching the Yale Open Course on the Early Middle Ages, and the lecturer was basically saying that the entire reason Islam was so successful was because of how tolerant it was of other religions, similar to how the Romans were You must also have learned that this tolerance varied widely over the ages. Like other religions we could name... re the brotherhood, it was my impression that it was a fairly progressive movement within Islam. Obviously it's not like any source is unbiased and I haven't been following it that closely
As I said, they tend to be much more welcoming to various peoples because they aren't racist or nationalist or anything. But they aren't 'progressive.' Their influence is easily observable as you will now seen women in burqas and nikabs in countries where that was not at all common.
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Hmm! This made me laugh for like 10 seconds. Then I was sad.
![[image loading]](http://www.bonkersworld.net/images/2012.10.15_top_donors.png)
In case of confusion:
+ Show Spoiler +This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2012 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.
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United States13896 Posts
Where is Goldman Sachs on Obama's side bro. They're like #1 or #2 for BOTH candidates. Look it up.
edit: Nvm that was last election.
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On October 16 2012 07:54 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:44 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:42 xDaunt wrote:On October 16 2012 07:27 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yeah, I just finished watching the Yale Open Course on the Early Middle Ages, and the lecturer was basically saying that the entire reason Islam was so successful was because of how tolerant it was of other religions, similar to how the Romans were You must also have learned that this tolerance varied widely over the ages. Like other religions we could name... re the brotherhood, it was my impression that it was a fairly progressive movement within Islam. Obviously it's not like any source is unbiased and I haven't been following it that closely As I said, they tend to be much more welcoming to various peoples because they aren't racist or nationalist or anything. But they aren't 'progressive.' Their influence is easily observable as you will now seen women in burqas and nikabs in countries where that was not at all common.
Yeah, here's the rub right? I think our aims of a) stability and b) westernization are mutually contradictory.
In the end, the only people who can free Muslim women are Muslim women. If we come in and take off the burqas by force, as much as that makes us feel all progressive and stuff, I think it actually does more harm than good for feminism in the Islamic world...
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United States13896 Posts
Yeah I was looking at 2008 not 2012
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Top 3 Romney donors are the top 3 most corrupt pos banks in America.
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On October 16 2012 08:03 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:54 DoubleReed wrote:On October 16 2012 07:44 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:42 xDaunt wrote:On October 16 2012 07:27 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 07:26 Souma wrote:On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the pre-dominantly muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. 'They hate our freedomz!!1' is one of the most oversimplified explanations of anything I have ever heard of. It exemplifies the ignorance of the typical American on U.S.-Middle East relations. Did you know that Muslims once upon a time were actually incredibly tolerant and would not lift a finger when directly insulted? Yeah, I just finished watching the Yale Open Course on the Early Middle Ages, and the lecturer was basically saying that the entire reason Islam was so successful was because of how tolerant it was of other religions, similar to how the Romans were You must also have learned that this tolerance varied widely over the ages. Like other religions we could name... re the brotherhood, it was my impression that it was a fairly progressive movement within Islam. Obviously it's not like any source is unbiased and I haven't been following it that closely As I said, they tend to be much more welcoming to various peoples because they aren't racist or nationalist or anything. But they aren't 'progressive.' Their influence is easily observable as you will now seen women in burqas and nikabs in countries where that was not at all common. Yeah, here's the rub right? I think our aims of a) stability and b) westernization are mutually contradictory. In the end, the only people who can free Muslim women are Muslim women. If we come in and take off the burqas by force, as much as that makes us feel all progressive and stuff, I think it actually does more harm than good for feminism in the Islamic world...
I never suggested taking burqas off by force. Don't make this a false dilemma.
One thing that I think is pretty cool are the "America Houses" that Obama has set up around the world.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/172/open-america-houses-in-islamic-cities-around-the/
I couldn't find much information on them. Does anyone else know where to go for information about this effort?
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On October 16 2012 07:26 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 07:23 kmillz wrote:On October 16 2012 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:Lol what? How many dictatorships did we support because they were anti-Communist? How many times did we nod our heads to bad men saying "Our country needs a strong ruler, the people aren't ready to make decisions for themselves, it isn't in our culture" because the strong ruler was against Moscow? How many times have George Bush and Barack Obama both bent over backwards to say "this isn't a war against Islam," "Islam mustn't be insulted," etc? Supporting dictatorships because of anti-communism is basically exactly what I'm talking about... As for the latter, I think it may be a question of the lady protesting too much. On October 16 2012 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
In fact this fanatical hatred of the US has existed since the US has existed, there's nothing Americans can do about it. It's a big part of the reason why we don't listen to "the rest of the world" Nothing just "exists" all by itself A lesson I've learned in life: when everybody thinks you're an asshole, sometimes it's because you're actually just acting like an asshole I agree to some extent..but our freedoms are a big reason why many hate us. Specifically much of the dominantly Muslim parts of the Middle East will mostly always hate us as long as we are free to do all of the things they consider sacrilegious. There is really nothing we can do to change that. This freedom business is ridiculous. There are many countries around the world (infact I would argue most if not all of the western world) that are just as "free" as us, especially in the ways you would expect islamic facist countries to be pissed off about. Women wearing what they want, intermixing of the genders, freedom of speech, etc. I'm looking at you Saudi Arabia.
Yeah the stupid freedom argument is over used... "We're free!" . Well why aren't Islamic terrorists attacking Canada? France? Sweden? Seems odd that they seem to pick this one, there must be a correlating point.
Hmmm... what point could that be.
Ohhhh the one bombing them for the past decade killing approximately 100 - 150 thousand civilians in the process...
This doesn't make the argument whether the wars were just or were reasonable or required, but it refutes the ridiculous assumption they hate you for your "freedoms"
On October 16 2012 07:55 Djzapz wrote:Hmm! This made me laugh for like 10 seconds. Then I was sad. In case of confusion: + Show Spoiler +This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2012 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.
: D lol
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I honestly am close to just voting Johnson and being done with it. While I do feel that in an Obama v. Romney election, Romney will be better for the country over the next four years, I really don't agree with some of the baggage that comes with him.
Now we just need to swipe ~15% from Romney and Obama camps and we'll have a nice third candidate that might win.
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On October 16 2012 08:52 DarK[A] wrote:
I honestly am close to just voting Johnson and being done with it. While I do feel that in an Obama v. Romney election, Romney will be better for the country over the next four years, I really don't agree with some of the baggage that comes with him.
Now we just need to swipe ~15% from Romney and Obama camps and we'll have a nice third candidate that might win.
I'm always torn on libertarian, some of it is appealing then there are parts i dislike.
if romney wasn't so batshit crazy i'd vote for Stein (curses, i miss the registration age by 4 months!)
but because romney's such a tool i'd vote obama if i could.
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On October 16 2012 08:06 Souma wrote:
Top 3 Romney donors are the top 3 most corrupt pos banks in America.
No way, man, Shittygroup is way worse than JP Morgan. Although the London Whale didn't do them any favors.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On October 16 2012 08:55 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 08:06 Souma wrote:
Top 3 Romney donors are the top 3 most corrupt pos banks in America. No way, man, Shittygroup is way worse than JP Morgan. Although the London Whale didn't do them any favors.
You think so? From what I've read about JP Morgan the kind of crap they do just really astounds me. Granted I haven't heard much about Citigroup other than that they are really bad themselves so I'd have to read up on them.
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Well, JP Morgan is still top 5.
It's just that Citi as the biggest and most desperate financial institution was also wading deepest into the mortgage frauds. Without fear of prosecution, it's uncertain if they even stopped the most abusive practices. Whistleblowers say no.
It's also Citi's Chuck Prince who infamously said "But as long as the music is playing, you’ve got to get up and dance. We’re still dancing".
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On October 16 2012 08:04 p4NDemik wrote:
Yeah I was looking at 2008 not 2012
Hence Dodd-Frank was passed and signed into law...
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On October 16 2012 07:55 Djzapz wrote:Hmm! This made me laugh for like 10 seconds. Then I was sad. In case of confusion: + Show Spoiler +This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2012 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.
So government and private organizations that make tons of money a living off government funding support Obama and organizations that prefer less government involvement (when it helps them) support Romney.
I really don't find this surprising or funny. What's the joke?
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On October 16 2012 08:55 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 08:06 Souma wrote:
Top 3 Romney donors are the top 3 most corrupt pos banks in America. No way, man, Shittygroup is way worse than JP Morgan. Although the London Whale didn't do them any favors.
Most corrupt bank on that list US Government. It's backed lending institutions Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were a large part of the major housing crash with their mortgage backed securities. What's more, it's powerful lobbyists / politically powerful connections engineered Dodd-Frank to turn a blind eye to what went on over there. Create rules for others, ignore them for themselves? It gets my vote.
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EPT
