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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
this just in: america racist against whites.
what kind of close universe do you inhabit in which this is even a reasonable idea?
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On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing.
Young Turks is the social side equivalent of Glen Beck imo. Not quite the entire FOX but back when Glen Beck was kicking they were relatively similar, perhaps they didn't assume everything was nazi germany but they never leaned right.
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On November 12 2012 01:17 oneofthem wrote:
this just in: america racist against whites.
what kind of close universe do you inhabit in which this is even a reasonable idea?
Are you seriously suggesting that there isn't racism towards white people in America? This is besides my main point anyway, in fact entirely the opposite of my point which is that it isn't always about race and I think people play that card too much.
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On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Show nested quote +Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy.
I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there.
And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Krugman has a post today where he quotes deficit hawks squirming in an attempt to justify why the fiscal cliff is bad. And they're not making any sense.
This is a point that I've already brought up many times in this thread, for example here:
On November 05 2012 19:15 paralleluniverse wrote:
If reducing the deficit is such a good idea, why are Republicans talking about the fiscal cliff as if it is apocalyptic for the economy? If your worldview is that deficits are bad then it must necessarily follow that the fiscal cliff is good.
Only one person in this thread has attempted to answer this question, and even he had to use Keynesian arguments. Republicans love talking about deficit reduction, because it means slashing government spending on the poor. Yet they can't bring themselves to say that they're Keynesians, despite that being the only coherent explanation for why the fiscal cliff is bad. And that makes them hypocrites, without any coherent understanding of economics.
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On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler +
Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection.
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One thing that boggles me the most about some republicans is that they will blatantly denie, what to me seems as hard facts, global warming and insist it doesnt exist (also Obamas place of birth, though I never understood why he'd become a better or worse president because of his birthplace...
To me, the election was primarily about which kind of energy would America invest money in the next 4 years? Sustainable or fossil? Personally I don't know why you wouldn't believe in global warming, nothing along those lines are prohibited or talked about in the bible so there are no "religious" hinderances for it, only logical reason for this could be that people are profitting big $$ on the oil industry and therefore spreads some kind of propaganda to make people not believe in sustainable energy.
Interesting food for thought: if I turn it 180 degrees some assholes tell me that the cheap and accessible fuel is bad for climate, what kind of propaganda is that, I dont want to pay for that. (and here, disregarding what effects it would have).
Am I completely off mark? Shit really confuses me..
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On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection.
No presidential candidate in living memory has had such issues with questions of birth. What's so different about Obama that brings up such conspiracies?!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 12 2012 01:17 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Young Turks is the social side equivalent of Glen Beck imo. Not quite the entire FOX but back when Glen Beck was kicking they were relatively similar, perhaps they didn't assume everything was nazi germany but they never leaned right.
There are definitely liberal but to compare them to Glenn Beck? They actually are quite critical of Obama, along with Republicans.
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I just wanted to ask, is there white<->asian rasism in america?
On the discussion, the wast part of rasism comes from the improper generalisation, when bad traits of a single member or a small group are wiewed as a common trait among people of same colour.
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On November 12 2012 01:40 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection. No presidential candidate in living memory has had such issues with questions of birth. What's so different about Obama that brings up such conspiracies?! + Show Spoiler +
Oh. I didn't realize that was the only difference between Obama and previous Presidents...People will go to great lengths to demonize a President they don't like (see: George W. Bush)...but if he's black it must be because he is black right?
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1019 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection.
Because it feels like dog-whistle racism. The protests over obama's birthplace itself isn't ncessarily a problem. It's a problem when clear evidence has been made to the public and people still demand proof over obama's birthplace. That suggests anger toward obama that isn't just political. The GOP as a whole is definitely not racist. But there is a significant part of the GOP that certainly carries closeted racism, especially the tea party wing.
Part of the GOP simply disrespects obama. Don't deny it. When obama was elected, republicans started to say "take our country back" as a slogan for the 2012 election campaign. Take our country back from whom? Are you suggesting a non-American is sitting in the white house? Who is controlling the white house such that we have to "take it back"? It doesn't sound like racism to white americans, but to minorities and whites who have experienced racism or know enough about it can tell. The GOP needs to marginalize its extreme elements and become center-right enough to become a legitimate opposition to democrats or else the left is just going to run amok without an alternative to keep it in check.
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On November 12 2012 01:51 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:40 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection. No presidential candidate in living memory has had such issues with questions of birth. What's so different about Obama that brings up such conspiracies?! + Show Spoiler + Oh. I didn't realize that was the only difference between Obama and previous Presidents...People will go to great lengths to demonize a President they don't like (see: George W. Bush)...but if he's black it must be BECAUSE he is black right?
I wouldn't say its purely because he's black. His middle name is pretty unfortunate.
And I fail to see how questioning Obama's origin of birth is equivalent to anything brought up against path presidents. It's not even something he did which is being questioned, like Bush's draft dodging or Clinton+Lewinski, the central question is I don't think this guy is American.
On November 12 2012 01:53 white_horse wrote:
It doesn't sound like racism to white americans, but to minorities and whites who have experienced racism or know enough about it can tell.
And that.
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On November 12 2012 01:53 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection. Because it feels like dog-whistle racism. The protests over obama's birthplace itself isn't ncessarily a problem. It's a problem when clear evidence has been made to the public and people still demand proof over obama's birthplace. That suggests anger toward obama that isn't just political. The GOP as a whole is definitely not racist. But there is a significant part of the GOP that certainly carries closeted racism, especially the tea party wing. Part of the GOP simply disrespects obama. Don't deny it. When obama was elected, republicans started to say "take our country back" as a slogan for the 2012 election campaign. Take our country back from whom? Are you suggesting a non-American is sitting in the white house? Who is controlling the white house such that we have to "take it back"? It doesn't sound like racism to white americans, but to minorities and whites who have experienced racism or know enough about it can tell. The GOP needs to marginalize its extreme elements and become center-right enough to become a legitimate opposition to democrats or else the left is just going to run amok without an alternative to keep it in check.
I mean, I guess I can see how it could be perceived that way, but it might be a little oversensitive on the racial undertones considering they could just as easily mean take our country back from the democrats or from this terrible president who happens to be black...I won't deny that part of the GOP simply disrespects Obama, just as you shouldn't deny that Bush was at least as disrespected (some might even argue more). Basically I'm still leaning more towards the birther movement took off more as a protest to the President and anyone racist that has to do with the movement is correlation without causation.
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On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Show nested quote +Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy.
Seriously, be honest with yourself concerning the racism thing. Just go to a less moderated website and read the comments. There is a lot more vitriolic hate toward blacks/hispanics, and it's from republicans. Racist signs at tea party demonstrations, incidents with nooses etc...
One recent at the RNC convention, where 2 attendees throwing nuts at black a CNN reporter
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/republican-cnn-attack-animal-peanuts-racist_n_1838249.html
And sadly it is not limited to the base.
You may feel the democrats run on an anti white platform by advocating minority rights, but it is not comparable to the historical racism in this country. It is minor and has more to do with the issues of definition of race, colorblindness etc...
There is a reason the GOP attracts these people, and it's because 1964 and Goldwater campaign, it wants to appeal to the racist neo confederate south. It rejected the civil right act because it infringes on states rights. If you don't see a historical resonance here you are pretty naive.
On your second point about liberty, that is one big problem of the current GOP vs latinao/asian/black vote. Your definition of liberty doesn't resonate with them. Here is a good piece on the Economist about this definition of liberty:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/08/politics-and-philosophy-racism#comments
I think if the GOP rejects or keep the vocal extremists on leash, they have a lot more potential votes available with independents and moderates. Those voters right now are scared by the attacks on women/minority/gay/workers rights. As well as insulted by the constant insults from GOP voices (51% of takers, lazy with no work ethics etc..,)
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United States24565 Posts
What do you guys think of a new political party for the 2016 election, the Bull-Moose Party (Progressive Party of 1912)? It could use the best aspects of both platforms (Dems and GOP) in their own, and have their speaker be a Teddy Roosevelt impersonator (I know one).
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On November 12 2012 01:53 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection. Because it feels like dog-whistle racism. The protests over obama's birthplace itself isn't ncessarily a problem. It's a problem when clear evidence has been made to the public and people still demand proof over obama's birthplace. That suggests anger toward obama that isn't just political. The GOP as a whole is definitely not racist. But there is a significant part of the GOP that certainly carries closeted racism, especially the tea party wing. Part of the GOP simply disrespects obama. Don't deny it. When obama was elected, republicans started to say "take our country back" as a slogan for the 2012 election campaign. Take our country back from whom? Are you suggesting a non-American is sitting in the white house? Who is controlling the white house such that we have to "take it back"? It doesn't sound like racism to white americans, but to minorities and whites who have experienced racism or know enough about it can tell. The GOP needs to marginalize its extreme elements and become center-right enough to become a legitimate opposition to democrats or else the left is just going to run amok without an alternative to keep it in check.
so it feels like racism to you, and that is enough to make you ignore every fact that shows that it isn't? Allen West is a black man, and a Tea Party favorite. Herman Cain was a Tea Party favorite, and is black. Mia Love is black, and again, a Tea Party favorite. you might be able to point to one or two signs that one or two Tea Party people carried that could actually be construed as racist (not doctored photographs), but then I can point to the thousands upon thousands of blatantly anti-Semitic signs that show up at every single liberal rally.
hell yeah we disrespect Obama. respect is earned, and in my opinion, and in the opinion of most conservatives, Obama has done nothing to earn our respect. take our country back is a very old slogan, and you know exactly what it means. it means give power back to the people and states and move it away from the federal government. Obama is a very left-wing President, to the point where he is more concerned about taxing the rich than fixing the economy. you want it to be racism because that allows you to poison the well, and since you base your claim on no evidence, but instead "feelings", there is no disproving your claim. how do I disprove a "feeling" and a "perception"?
dollars to dimes I'll find more examples of a liberal screaming "house nigger" than you can of conservatives saying any racial epithet.
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On November 12 2012 02:05 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:53 white_horse wrote:On November 12 2012 01:31 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 01:26 ZeaL. wrote:On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. I wonder why a few bloggers questioned McCain's birth. Maybe because he was actually born outside the US and at the time there was a lot of questions already being directed at one particular candidate's location at birth. That didn't last very long because there's basically no proof to show that McCain, while born in another country, is not a US citizen. A few years after the release of both his short and long-form birth certificates and there's still people who think he's Kenyan. And these aren't just uneducated voters either, there are plenty of GOP politicians (mostly at the state level) who express the same sentiment. Things got quieter after the release of his long form birth certificate + Osama's death but the sentiment is still there. And D's racist against white people? lol. I guess that explains why Republicans won the white vote, they just felt disenfranchised and were afraid of those racist minorities. + Show Spoiler + Calling the Republican party as a whole racist to black people is just as ridiculous as calling the Democratic party as a whole racist to white people. Why do idiots thinking he is from Kenya have to be racist idiots? I don't get the connection. Because it feels like dog-whistle racism. The protests over obama's birthplace itself isn't ncessarily a problem. It's a problem when clear evidence has been made to the public and people still demand proof over obama's birthplace. That suggests anger toward obama that isn't just political. The GOP as a whole is definitely not racist. But there is a significant part of the GOP that certainly carries closeted racism, especially the tea party wing. Part of the GOP simply disrespects obama. Don't deny it. When obama was elected, republicans started to say "take our country back" as a slogan for the 2012 election campaign. Take our country back from whom? Are you suggesting a non-American is sitting in the white house? Who is controlling the white house such that we have to "take it back"? It doesn't sound like racism to white americans, but to minorities and whites who have experienced racism or know enough about it can tell. The GOP needs to marginalize its extreme elements and become center-right enough to become a legitimate opposition to democrats or else the left is just going to run amok without an alternative to keep it in check. I mean, I guess I can see how it could be perceived that way, but it might be a little oversensitive on the racial undertones considering they could just as easily mean take our country back from the democrats or from this terrible president who happens to be black...I won't deny that part of the GOP simply disrespects Obama, just as you shouldn't deny that Bush was at least as disrespected (some might even argue more). Basically I'm still leaning more towards the birther movement took off more as a protest to the President and anyone racist that has to do with the movement is correlation without causation.
If you're going to "protest the President", why would you question his place of birth? His place of birth has nothing to do with his policies. The most radical attacks against Bush, amongst other things, include him being a warmonger and hating black people because of Katrina. But these attacks are all related to his policies and actions.
Disputing Obama's place of birth has nothing to do with policies, so it's not just protesting the President. The attack is only possible because he's black and his father is from Kenya.
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On November 12 2012 02:06 harlock78 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 01:05 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2012 00:43 JinDesu wrote:On November 12 2012 00:12 D10 wrote:
How do you view the young turks ? Annoying and liberally biased. At least the Daily Show is funny and is less overbearing. Feel the same way. I love when he pokes fun at Bill O'Reilly, even though on the issues I tend to agree with Bill a tiny bit more. I think Bill just makes an idiot out of himself and makes me wish I didn't agree with his main point. On November 12 2012 00:29 white_horse wrote:On November 11 2012 21:33 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2012 15:45 Leporello wrote:
So, yeah, conservative ideology might be great (or not), but their politicians are what matter. And they're awful. If the GOP would elect a candidate to get on stage in a national debate, with a Democrat, and tell America they want to declare fetuses to be human in all cases of conception (we saw a little of that in some State elections this year, to hilarious results), call global-warming a giant conspiracy, cut the Estate Tax and cut down the top income-tax brackets, denounce evolution, denounce homosexuality, denounce Social Security and Medicare, make it easier for people to buy more assault weapons, etc. -- then I will vote for that person purely for their honesty, even though I'd be disagreeing with everything they're saying. But it'll never happen, because conservative ideology, even in at its most tepid, is currently not at all what America wants.
It saddens me that this is how the GOP is seen. Funny..I once considered myself a Republican and a Catholic and now I am neither. Didn't vote for Romney even though I think Obama's policies are terrible..its like I wanted to like him so much, but he literally made it impossible. He got whooped anyway, not like my one vote would've changed that..and now I get to have a clean conscience knowing I didn't vote for either evil! :D Well its kind of obvious why they are seen that way. The GOP has been jerked around by its tea party. The GOP doesn't just disagree with obama. They disrespect him. And I think part of the reason why is because he's black. Any republican will vehemently deny that they are racist if you ask them about it, but I think part of the reason of so much vitriol coming from the GOP is because obama is black. Accusing the president of not being born in the US even after proof is posted, accusing him to be some evil muslim, trump offering money to the public to uncover "secret' information about obama, accusing him of rigging the unemployment statistics for political gain, etc etc. Really now. I wonder how far the GOP would have gone with this kind of stuff had obama been white. These kind of antics scare away decent people who are only interested in whats good for the country. Racism is a two-way street, and to suggest that only vitriol is coming from the GOP because obama is black, but yet disregard the possibility that vitriol could come from the other side because Mitt Romney is white is just silly....Unless you have some evidence that the GOP is more racist to black people than the Democratic party is racist towards white people, I would suggest you stop listening to Chris Matthews so much. You really think the birther movement started because he is black? Let's not forget: Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. Not EVERYTHING is about race....seriously. I'm not really that sympathetic towards any disrespect Obama gets after what George W. Bush endured. Not saying he was a good President...but as far as I'm concerned Obama is just as bad in the issues that concern me (liberty) and I can understand why half the country would have little respect for either of them. My honest opinion is that yes, there are people who are racist and simply do not like Obama for that reason (and again..its a 2-way street! Just ask Jay-Z why he isn't voting for smaller government), but I do not think it is the MAIN reason for the harshness towards him...I think that more stems from disagreement on policy. Seriously, be honest with yourself concerning the racism thing. Just go to a less moderated website and read the comments. There is a lot more vitriolic hate toward blacks/hispanics, and it's from republicans. Racist signs at tea party demonstrations, incidents with nooses etc... One recent at the RNC convention, where 2 attendees throwing nuts at black a CNN reporter http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/republican-cnn-attack-animal-peanuts-racist_n_1838249.htmlAnd sadly it is not limited to the base. You may feel the democrats run on an anti white platform by advocating minority rights, but it is not comparable to the historical racism in this country. It is minor and has more to do with the issues of definition of race, colorblindness etc... There is a reason the GOP attracts these people, and it's because 1964 and Goldwater campaign, it wants to appeal to the racist neo confederate south. It rejected the civil right act because it infringes on states rights. If you don't see a historical resonance here you are pretty naive. On your second point about liberty, that is one big problem of the current GOP vs latinao/asian/black vote. Your definition of liberty doesn't resonate with them. Here is a good piece on the Economist about this definition of liberty: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/08/politics-and-philosophy-racism#commentsI think if the GOP rejects or keep the vocal extremists on leash, they have a lot more potential votes available with independents and moderates. Those voters right now are scared by the attacks on women/minority/gay/workers rights. As well as insulted by the constant insults from GOP voices (51% of takers, lazy with no work ethics etc..,)
I don't really see the point of the opinions of democrats and republicans on a graph (that didn't show any shocking data to begin with) on their views towards blacks when 93% of the black community voted democrat this year....so that leaves a whopping 7% (+ the black republicans who voted for obama) of black people to express their opinion of black people from the republican side. Surprise, black people think black people are more hard working and intelligent than non-black people....
I don't think this is even remotely conclusive data on racism (and it only addresses racism towards black people). As far as the libertarian policy on immigration, I can understand why that would be so unpopular among minorities, and it also happens to be one of the few policies I do not agree with Ron Paul (or Rand Paul) on...
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On November 12 2012 02:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Obama is a very left-wing President, to the point where he is more concerned about taxing the rich than fixing the economy.
This is hilarious coming from Republicans, whose only economic policy is giving tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the rich. Regardless of whether it is counter-cyclical or pro-cyclical, tax cuts are the solution for any state of the economy. The CBO shows that tax cuts have little affect on growth compared to spending, the Congressional Research Office finds no correlation between tax cuts and economic growth, but let's ignore all the evidence, because it disagrees with Republican dogma. After all, Republicans are so anti-intellectual that they were utterly shocked when Romney lost, since they ignored all the evidence then.
Gotta love the hypocrisy when they talk about the debt being catastrophic. And what should we do about it? Another tax cut.
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