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On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet.
Where you alive during the campaign? Did you read the news? If so, you already know.
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On October 25 2012 02:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:17 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:05 Reedjr wrote:
People's views change, especially after college. If you look at someone's school assignments taken from when they are half their current age, you would not have a very accurate view of that person - only who they used to be. I realize that people's views change, but I think it is important to look at his views back then. Could he have become more moderate? Absolutely. Could he have become more radical (or remained about the same)? Absolutely. I think to call his views in the past completely irrelevant is naive (no offense). Mitt Romney has completely "changed" his views over the past 20 years, he used to be a very hardcore leftist who hated guns and loved universal healthcare. Now he claims he loves guns and hates universal healthcare, yet I get the distinct impression that Romney is lying about his newfound love for guns and hatred of universal healthcare. I think that Romney is just pretending to be more moderate/conservative in order to win the election, not because he actually believes in such things. Romney was certainly not a "hardcore leftist" as governor of MA.
Sure he was, he created the blue-print for Obamacare, implemented his own state-level universal healthcare, supported gun bans, supported gay marriage, supported abortion, etc.
All of which are generally associated with pretty far-left wing liberal Democrats.
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On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet.
well, he gave a pretty good speech at dnc a few years back which catapulted him into the national spotlight... oh, and being a bestselling author probably helped.
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On October 25 2012 02:45 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:42 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:40 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:34 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? That has nothing to do with his college papers. That was me responding to how he said that Obama has a lot of political experience and was a very mainstream political figure prior to running for president. You're completely distorting what I said. I was responding to you saying he was a "magical figure" who "came out of nowhere". Also, you still have to explain how the hell him getting elected in 2008 is a "frightening question". Finally, in case you didn't notice, Trump is asking for his college papers NOW, and Obama has already been president, and under the most intensive spotlight of the world, for four years. He's asking for Obama's college records, there's a difference between the papers Obama wrote and records that show he attended college. So how exactly is asking for his college records in any way relevant?
It isn't, but it hopefully opens the door for Obama to be more transparent in the future.
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On October 25 2012 02:47 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet. Where you alive during the campaign? Did you read the news? If so, you already know.
Hence the "before running for president." He gave a speech at the DNC in 2004, that was about it.
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On October 25 2012 02:52 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:47 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet. Where you alive during the campaign? Did you read the news? If so, you already know. Hence the "before running for president." He gave a speech at the DNC in 2004, that was about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama seems pretty detailed if you ask me.
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I like how Trump said he had a bombshell to drop then all he does is make a request for records. I don't see how those records will really change anything or tell us anything about Obama. At least Swazi Spring's suggestion of college papers actually tells something about him and his views but records? This is just another birther issue trying to see if he applied to college/passport as a non American or something.
I also remember back when Bush was president he was an up and commer in the Democratic party because he seemed pretty charismatic and "new" therefore not associated with the old guard whom a lot of Americans see as corrupt. I remember this because I didn't know who he was and my aunt and uncle who live in Illinois were like "yea we know him he is involved in Illinois politics and he seems like a good guy who could run for president one day". They just thought he would probably begin his push for his 1st term like in this election so he would have more experience instead of going in last election.
Honestly if he had waited to start running now this issue of "coming from no where" wouldn't be an issue because he would of had more time to gain a reputation but the Dems needed/wanted someone younger and up and coming who could separate himself from the Washington status quo.
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On October 25 2012 02:57 mathemagician1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:52 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:47 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet. Where you alive during the campaign? Did you read the news? If so, you already know. Hence the "before running for president." He gave a speech at the DNC in 2004, that was about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama seems pretty detailed if you ask me.
Only 20 paragraphs about the first 30 years or so of Obama's life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama
I really don't think we should use the length of Wikipedia articles as proof of how notable a person was 10 years ago though.
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Trump's suggestion is like one of these Facebook scam things, where a doctor cannot help the patient before he gets 20000 likes. If he cares about charity he should give the money away. As it stands, he's just a dick IMO.
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On October 25 2012 03:03 mathemagician1986 wrote:
Trump's suggestion is like one of these Facebook scam things, where a doctor cannot help the patient before he gets 20000 likes. If he cares about charity he should give the money away. As it stands, he's just a dick IMO.
If a doctor has done this, then he/she deserves to have his/her medical license suspended.
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On October 25 2012 03:04 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:03 mathemagician1986 wrote:
Trump's suggestion is like one of these Facebook scam things, where a doctor cannot help the patient before he gets 20000 likes. If he cares about charity he should give the money away. As it stands, he's just a dick IMO. If a doctor has done this, then he/she deserves to have his/her medical license suspended.
of course this never happened, you know those stupid posts though, right?
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On October 25 2012 02:50 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:45 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:42 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:40 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:34 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? That has nothing to do with his college papers. That was me responding to how he said that Obama has a lot of political experience and was a very mainstream political figure prior to running for president. You're completely distorting what I said. I was responding to you saying he was a "magical figure" who "came out of nowhere". Also, you still have to explain how the hell him getting elected in 2008 is a "frightening question". Finally, in case you didn't notice, Trump is asking for his college papers NOW, and Obama has already been president, and under the most intensive spotlight of the world, for four years. He's asking for Obama's college records, there's a difference between the papers Obama wrote and records that show he attended college. So how exactly is asking for his college records in any way relevant? It isn't, but it hopefully opens the door for Obama to be more transparent in the future.
Obama is as transparent as any other person running for office ever has been.
On October 25 2012 02:52 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:47 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:46 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:30 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 02:27 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:20 kwizach wrote:On October 25 2012 01:54 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 01:51 kwizach wrote:
I am genuinely laughing at Trump's request. What an attention-seeking dumbass.
On second thought, though, it's pretty sad there are actually morons who will consider this a reasonable request and bargain. How is it unreasonable? The American people have no idea who Obama is, he is just sort of a magical figure who came out of nowhere. How did someone that no one had ever heard of, someone who only served a few years as a senator, suddenly become president of the most powerful country on the planet? That is a frightening question. Yes, a "magical figure" who's published books, presided the Harvard Law Review, taught constitutional law at University of Chicago, was a state senator from 1997 to 2004, was elected U.S. senator in 2004 and has been president since 2009. You're right, he's really been hiding in the shadows until this election. That's nothing in terms of political experience, especially at the federal level. Do you really think any other person could serve less than a full term in the federal senate and then become president of the United States? I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. How is this related to his college papers? How does it change the fact that he's probably been the most watched person on the planet for the last four years? What is supposed to be questionable about his 2008 election? How someone with such little real experience and who the public had never heard of, suddenly went from being a nobody to being the most powerful person on the planet. Where you alive during the campaign? Did you read the news? If so, you already know. Hence the "before running for president." He gave a speech at the DNC in 2004, that was about it.
You were asking how he went from "being a nobody" (which he never was, but ok) to being president. This is documented. There is nothing mysterious about it, in particular about the phase which mattered, namely the campaign.
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On October 25 2012 03:06 mathemagician1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:04 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 03:03 mathemagician1986 wrote:
Trump's suggestion is like one of these Facebook scam things, where a doctor cannot help the patient before he gets 20000 likes. If he cares about charity he should give the money away. As it stands, he's just a dick IMO. If a doctor has done this, then he/she deserves to have his/her medical license suspended. of course this never happened, you know those stupid posts though, right?
Unfortunately I have seen stupid scams such as that though your right. The example you gave was just bizarre though, lol.
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On October 25 2012 02:48 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 02:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On October 25 2012 02:17 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 02:05 Reedjr wrote:
People's views change, especially after college. If you look at someone's school assignments taken from when they are half their current age, you would not have a very accurate view of that person - only who they used to be. I realize that people's views change, but I think it is important to look at his views back then. Could he have become more moderate? Absolutely. Could he have become more radical (or remained about the same)? Absolutely. I think to call his views in the past completely irrelevant is naive (no offense). Mitt Romney has completely "changed" his views over the past 20 years, he used to be a very hardcore leftist who hated guns and loved universal healthcare. Now he claims he loves guns and hates universal healthcare, yet I get the distinct impression that Romney is lying about his newfound love for guns and hatred of universal healthcare. I think that Romney is just pretending to be more moderate/conservative in order to win the election, not because he actually believes in such things. Romney was certainly not a "hardcore leftist" as governor of MA. Sure he was, he created the blue-print for Obamacare, implemented his own state-level universal healthcare, supported gun bans, supported gay marriage, supported abortion, etc. All of which are generally associated with pretty far-left wing liberal Democrats.
The state was going to do healthcare reform no matter what. If "Romneycare" wasn't passed something else and similar would have been.
Romney was against same-sex marriage and for domestic partnerships.
The gun bans Romney signed into law simply made existing laws permanent.
On abortion Romney seems to have moved to the right since governor, though that's probably a reflection of the different office Romney is running for.
Basically a lot of liberal laws were passed when Romney was governor because MA is a liberal state.
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On October 25 2012 03:07 kwizach wrote:
Obama is as transparent as any other person running for office ever has been.
That's not true, Obama has been very 'cloak and dagger' as president, especially for someone who ran their entire campaign in 2008 as being "transparent." He made several campaign promises about transparency, such as how he would publicly post a full copy of every single bill that hit his desk on his website for people to read and share their thoughts on. He never did that. He then used executive privilege to classify the Operation Fast and Furious documents, which is an abuse of executive power.
On October 25 2012 03:07 kwizach wrote:
There is nothing mysterious about it, in particular about the phase which mattered, namely the campaign.
Okay, I see what you're saying, he didn't come out of nowhere, you're right. I really hate to bring race into this, but it's an unfortunate fact. What I'm trying to say is that no white politician could have done what he did with such little experience. Even Obama's own party leaders said he wasn't "ready" or "experienced" enough to be president.
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im listening to the debate right now, LOL, horses and bayonets
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On October 25 2012 03:15 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:07 kwizach wrote:
There is nothing mysterious about it, in particular about the phase which mattered, namely the campaign. Okay, I see what you're saying, he didn't come out of nowhere, you're right. I really hate to bring race into this, but it's an unfortunate fact. What I'm trying to say is that no white politician could have done what he did with such little experience. Even Obama's own party leaders said he wasn't "ready" or "experienced" enough to be president.
Then blame it on the fact that his opponent was John McCain (and Palin), or anything else you want. I didn't vote for him because he was black.
Obviously, this time around, he's more than experienced enough to be president.
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On October 25 2012 03:10 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
The state was going to do healthcare reform no matter what. If "Romneycare" wasn't passed something else and similar would have been.
Romney was against same-sex marriage and for domestic partnerships.
The gun bans Romney signed into law simply made existing laws permanent.
On abortion Romney seems to have moved to the right since governor, though that's probably a reflection of the different office Romney is running for.
Basically a lot of liberal laws were passed when Romney was governor because MA is a liberal state.
I don't really know enough about the internal politics of Massachusetts in the 1990s to counter your points, sorry. You seem to have done some research on the subject, and I respect that.
As for gun rights, why would he make them permanent? And even if there was absolutely nothing he could have done to stop them, that doesn't change very anti-gun statements he made at the time. For instance, Romney said he "doesn't line up with the NRA" and that "assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts."
Never mind the fact that there is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault weapon, that's just a lie that the liberal media has been promulgating. Full-auto guns were banned in the 1980s under the Hughes Amendment, NOT under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which didn't really do anything other than ban certain extensions to guns, but I digress.
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On October 25 2012 03:15 Swazi Spring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:07 kwizach wrote:
There is nothing mysterious about it, in particular about the phase which mattered, namely the campaign. Okay, I see what you're saying, he didn't come out of nowhere, you're right. I really hate to bring race into this, but it's an unfortunate fact. What I'm trying to say is that no white politician could have done what he did with such little experience. Even Obama's own party leaders said he wasn't "ready" or "experienced" enough to be president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt
About the same level of experience
P.S. he was white
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On October 25 2012 03:22 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:15 Swazi Spring wrote:On October 25 2012 03:07 kwizach wrote:
There is nothing mysterious about it, in particular about the phase which mattered, namely the campaign. Okay, I see what you're saying, he didn't come out of nowhere, you're right. I really hate to bring race into this, but it's an unfortunate fact. What I'm trying to say is that no white politician could have done what he did with such little experience. Even Obama's own party leaders said he wasn't "ready" or "experienced" enough to be president. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_RooseveltAbout the same level of experience P.S. he was white
I meant in modern times, but I didn't say that, so I'll give you that one.
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