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In order for this topic to stay open, keep in mind the following: - Understand the difference between sex and gender- Please be respectful to those involved, particularly the transgendered - If you post without reason, or do not add to the discussion, you will be met with moderator action - If you don't know which pronoun is appropriate please feel free to read the topic and inform yourself before posting. We're all for debate but this is a sensitive subject for many people. |
On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides?
That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread.
Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP. 
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On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides?
It's not a behavior thing it's an identity thing. Gay men still identify as men. A transgender woman has a male body but identifies as a woman. Science and medicine have progressed to the point where we can solve that though.
Honestly once you really start to study all of the different ways people can identify themselves it gets very complicated and confusing. I think the best approach is just to say be what makes you happy and as long as you aren't hurting anyone else you're cool.
If she says she's a woman, then she's a woman and the world should treat her as one.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides?
There are brain differences in transgendered people (see lyerbeth's post, it been added to the OP). More than that though it is an entirely personal decision. There isn't a societally approved level of femininity when men are suddenly deemed women. The whole reason people have gender reassignment surgery is because people tend not to judge any more than their looks when it comes to assuming the gender of people.
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On April 04 2012 00:42 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides? That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread. Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP.
erm, no, its not impossible for a woman to be a gay transman. I gotta know, my bf is a born female, and I'm male as well 
edit: the following post of KwarK answers better than mine, look there
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United States43902 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides?
A gay is a man who wants to fuck other guys. A lesbian is a woman who wants to fuck other women. A transgender man is a man who was born with a male gender identity and a female sexual identity, who he fucks is irrelevant to that. Likewise a transgender woman is a woman who was born with a female gender identity and a male sexual identity.
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So she's allowed to compete? I wonder what happens if/when she goes on to the actual Miss Universe pageant. More bullshit?
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On April 04 2012 00:46 FalahNorei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:42 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides? That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread. Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP. *snip*
I wasn't meaning to say transmen couldn't be gay, I was meaning a woman couldn't be a gay man. I would argue that anyone who identifies as male was a man and so wouldn't be classified as a woman.
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If I say I'm a tiger, then I'm a tiger and the world should treat me as one. Don't poach me, bro.
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On April 04 2012 00:48 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:46 FalahNorei wrote:On April 04 2012 00:42 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides? That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread. Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP. erm, no, its not impossible for a woman to be a gay transman. I gotta know, my boyfriend is a born female, and I'm male as well I wasn't meaning to say transmen couldn't be gay, I was meaning a woman couldn't be a gay man. I would argue that anyone who identifies as male was a man and so wouldn't be classified as a woman.
ah, okay, my bad. sorry. any mod around to deleat my post there?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:47 dUTtrOACh wrote:
So she's allowed to compete? I wonder what happens if/when she goes on to the actual Miss Universe pageant. More bullshit?
I think the whole competition is owned by Trump so I imagine this part is done. She will probably have a hard time now though with respect to judges seeing as they will probably be fairly bigoted.
We need a Kwark for outside TL to banhammer all the idiots in the world.
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On April 03 2012 23:29 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:34 sharky246 wrote:On April 03 2012 18:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up? People aren't born male or female mentally. Kids before reaching puberty have no sexuality, that is, they are just boys and girls, physically only. At least that is what i learnt from a psychologist talking in a morning talk show. ahhhhhhahahaha. No one with kids, both boy and girl, would ever agree with that statement. There is no way.
Children are trained from birth to obey gender norms. They're even color-coded so you don't accidentally treat a female baby like a boy or vice-versa.
On April 03 2012 23:53 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:52 Vorgrim wrote:A penis is a birth defect? underwent sexual reassignment surgery at 19. If you think you are female then it effectively is.
Functional, healthy body parts do not become a defect simply because you prefer something else. If there genuinely is a birth defect in transgender or transsexual people, it is not their fully-functional genitals.
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On April 04 2012 00:17 PassiveAce wrote:
ROFL that is the single greatest public note I have ever read. Just broadly insulting the entire userbase, hilarious lol.
@CokeFreak, Great news, thanks for sharing!
And yet this thread has resulted in 4? bans already. Thank you KwarK for at least attempting to keep these types of posts open.
I dont think she should be allowed to compete under the old rules. I think they stated that you had to be born female (most likely to prevent either transgender or transvestite (Edit: thank you imallison and Klondikebar, complete derpmoment) from competing. I am sure this issue has come up before in some shape.
But I am very glad they changed the rules. There is no legitimate reason for a legally female person to not be allowed to compete in a non-physical setting. In sports there is probably an argument. But honestly I dont care. It doesnt hurt me (apart for some confusion, I will just have to live with that, preconceptions and whatnot) in any way and this is her business.
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On April 04 2012 00:51 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:29 danl9rm wrote:On April 03 2012 18:34 sharky246 wrote:On April 03 2012 18:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On April 03 2012 18:14 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 18:12 qrs wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. He's a man who had surgery/hormone therapy; just call him him. No. He was born a female mentally, and is now female completely. You're an extremely rude and insensitive individual. I highly doubt you'd have the balls to tell this woman that shes a "man" to her face. This raises the question. Are people born male/female mentally, or is that a part of growing up? People aren't born male or female mentally. Kids before reaching puberty have no sexuality, that is, they are just boys and girls, physically only. At least that is what i learnt from a psychologist talking in a morning talk show. ahhhhhhahahaha. No one with kids, both boy and girl, would ever agree with that statement. There is no way. Children are trained from birth to obey gender norms. They're even color-coded so you don't accidentally treat a female baby like a boy or vice-versa. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:53 imallinson wrote:On April 03 2012 23:52 Vorgrim wrote:A penis is a birth defect? underwent sexual reassignment surgery at 19. If you think you are female then it effectively is. Functional, healthy body parts do not become a defect simply because you prefer something else. If there genuinely is a birth defect in transgender or transsexual people, it is not their fully-functional genitals.
I think you're missing the part where this is more than preference.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:48 Vorgrim wrote:
If I say I'm a tiger, then I'm a tiger and the world should treat me as one. Don't poach me, bro.
I know I shouldn't but I've seen this in a few other places.
Gender identity is a societal construction that is in people's brains. Different species of animals are not. Don't compare the two, it's idiotic.
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On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her.
"She" will never be a her. Rather, an it. Being unhappy with your gender to the point of undergoing surgery to change your sex is disgraceful.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 04 2012 00:53 h41fgod wrote:
drag (whats the proper term for this?)
Transvestite is the word you are looking for.
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On April 04 2012 00:49 FalahNorei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:48 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:46 FalahNorei wrote:On April 04 2012 00:42 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides? That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread. Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP. *snip* I wasn't meaning to say transmen couldn't be gay, I was meaning a woman couldn't be a gay man. I would argue that anyone who identifies as male was a man and so wouldn't be classified as a woman. ah, okay, my bad. sorry. any mod around to deleat my post there?
No you were right, I should have worded that better in the post you replied to. I said what I had meant to, but I could have said it better. At your request for a mod to delete your post I'll edit it out of my posts in case you want to edit you post out.
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On April 04 2012 00:56 imallinson wrote:Transvestite is the word you are looking for.
Edit: Nevermind someone answered for me.
Iyerbeth you gotta get back into our IRC. You don't hang out with us enough.
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On April 04 2012 00:56 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. "She" will never be a her. Rather, an it. Being unhappy with your gender to the point of undergoing surgery to change your sex is disgraceful.
It as in an object?
Being unhappy is a disgrace?
I assume you want to tempt me to write something aggressive. I am very close to doing that. I will instead make use of my recently earned "Report" button.
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On April 04 2012 00:57 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:49 FalahNorei wrote:On April 04 2012 00:48 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:46 FalahNorei wrote:On April 04 2012 00:42 Iyerbeth wrote:On April 04 2012 00:38 andrewlt wrote:
What separates gay/lesbian people from transgenders? Is there some test that doctors can do to distinguish them, like something that shows up clearly in an MRI? I've seen some feminine gays and masculine lesbians. Is there a threshold that must be reached or is it some arbitrary thing that society decides? That's a fundamental misunderstand between someone's sexual orientation and their gender identity. It is impossible for a woman to be a gay man for instance. Though yes. there are brain differences that can be identified as per the sources I cited earlier in this thread. Edit: Oh cool I've been added to the OP. *snip* I wasn't meaning to say transmen couldn't be gay, I was meaning a woman couldn't be a gay man. I would argue that anyone who identifies as male was a man and so wouldn't be classified as a woman. ah, okay, my bad. sorry. any mod around to deleat my post there? No you were right, I should have worder that better in the post you replied to. I said what I had meant to, but I could have said it better. At your request for a mod to delete your post I'll edit it out of my posts in case you want to edit you post out.
nah, don't worry, I just didn't wanna flood the conversation with content-empty posts is all, not like there aren't enough of those already.... XD
On April 04 2012 00:54 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:48 Vorgrim wrote:
If I say I'm a tiger, then I'm a tiger and the world should treat me as one. Don't poach me, bro. I know I shouldn't but I've seen this in a few other places. Gender identity is a societal construction that is in people's brains. Different species of animals are not. Don't compare the two, it's idiotic.
what he means is therian ( I think thats the correct term), but thats a religion (or something like that), no personality/bodily disorder
On April 04 2012 01:01 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:56 NeThZOR wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 JOJOsc2news wrote:On April 03 2012 03:41 StimFesT wrote:
I seriously feel wierd when I look at the picture and know that she/he was born as a regular male. But she/he is actually beautiful Wow... stumbling over the he/she awkwardness in this post. She chose to be a woman, just call her her. "She" will never be a her. Rather, an it. Being unhappy with your gender to the point of undergoing surgery to change your sex is disgraceful. It as in an object? Being unhappy is a disgrace? I assume you want to tempt me to write something aggressive. I am very close to doing that. I will instead make use of my recently earned "Report" button.
thanks alot! that post hurt my brain :/
edit2: damn, that was fast XD
eventually have to say it anyways: <3 to the mods of TL!
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EPT
