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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 34

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
Freddybear
Profile Joined December 2011
United States126 Posts
April 07 2012 22:59 GMT
#661
On April 08 2012 07:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
I usually enjoy Bill Cosby's thoughts on race-related issues. His opinion on this case--although insightful--is kind of reserved though.

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

Show nested quote +
Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/


I'm afraid that Mr. Cosby has it wrong there. When you carry a gun you should not be intending to draw it unless you have to. When you draw the gun, you intend to harm somebody. And when you shoot the gun, you aim to kill.
Older than the usual n00b
NonFactor
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden698 Posts
April 07 2012 23:03 GMT
#662
On April 08 2012 07:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
I usually enjoy Bill Cosby's thoughts on race-related issues. His opinion on this case--although insightful--is kind of reserved though.

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

Show nested quote +
Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/


That does make a lot of sense actually. I can imagine myself being a lot more fearless while holding / having a gun somewhere on me. I'd assume thats true for most people.
dotHead
Profile Joined October 2010
United States233 Posts
April 08 2012 02:36 GMT
#663
It's just getting to be a little ridiculous now.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php
Aint got time to bleed
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 08 2012 02:49 GMT
#664
On April 08 2012 11:36 dotHead wrote:
It's just getting to be a little ridiculous now.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php

great. this is not going to end well.
Voltaire
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1485 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 03:11:07
April 08 2012 03:10 GMT
#665
On April 08 2012 07:59 Freddybear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 07:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
I usually enjoy Bill Cosby's thoughts on race-related issues. His opinion on this case--although insightful--is kind of reserved though.

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/


I'm afraid that Mr. Cosby has it wrong there. When you carry a gun you should not be intending to draw it unless you have to. When you draw the gun, you intend to harm somebody. And when you shoot the gun, you aim to kill.


I disagree with this. Guns are often drawn by law abiding citizens to prevent a situation from escalating further. My criminal justice professor was just discussing in class the other day. He told us a story about how this woman was being harassed by these men that were on her property, and they were refusing to leave. By merely showing that she had a gun, the men immediately got up and left. These types of scenarios happen all the time.
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
tokicheese
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada739 Posts
April 08 2012 03:21 GMT
#666
On April 08 2012 12:10 Voltaire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 07:59 Freddybear wrote:
On April 08 2012 07:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
I usually enjoy Bill Cosby's thoughts on race-related issues. His opinion on this case--although insightful--is kind of reserved though.

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/


I'm afraid that Mr. Cosby has it wrong there. When you carry a gun you should not be intending to draw it unless you have to. When you draw the gun, you intend to harm somebody. And when you shoot the gun, you aim to kill.


I disagree with this. Guns are often drawn by law abiding citizens to prevent a situation from escalating further. My criminal justice professor was just discussing in class the other day. He told us a story about how this woman was being harassed by these men that were on her property, and they were refusing to leave. By merely showing that she had a gun, the men immediately got up and left. These types of scenarios happen all the time.


That's fair enough but it goes both ways. A gun in your hand makes your ability to harm another regardless of it right or wrong sky rocket. If someone doesn't have a gun and is not right next to you or your a horrible shot, your pretty much invincible. I could not see many people being as aggressive as they are without their guns as opposed to say a knife. A knife can really mess you up but it is still way less powerful than a gun, you have to be right on top of a person, and the risk of losing the weapon is way higher meaning its a much more evenly balanced fight if comes to that so many people would be more cautious.


This is imo a reason there are so many more school shootings in the US than countries where guns are less pervasive. A nerdy guy can suddenly become pretty much untouchable and fairly easily acquire his gun. Compare this to a knife where maybe someone gets slashed but you can overwhelm the person much easier

Just my 2 cents
t༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ށ
woody60707
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1863 Posts
April 08 2012 04:25 GMT
#667
On April 08 2012 11:36 dotHead wrote:
It's just getting to be a little ridiculous now.

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php


But Zimmerman isn't white, and he's a Democrat. These people would hate Zimmerman.
Zaqwe
Profile Joined March 2012
591 Posts
April 09 2012 16:41 GMT
#668
Looks like either charges aren't going to be filed or they are planning to railroad Zimmerman on charges that would never get past a grand jury based on the evidence.

Prosecutor won't use grand jury in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has decided against using a grand jury in the case involving the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, her office said Monday.

The grand jury, set to convene Tuesday, was "previously scheduled by the former prosecutor," said the statement from Corey.

Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, texted his reaction to CNN's Martin Savidge: "Not surprised. Don't know what her decision will be. Courageous move on her part."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 17:42:34
April 09 2012 17:39 GMT
#669
On April 10 2012 01:41 Zaqwe wrote:
Looks like either charges aren't going to be filed or they are planning to railroad Zimmerman on charges that would never get past a grand jury based on the evidence.

Show nested quote +
Prosecutor won't use grand jury in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has decided against using a grand jury in the case involving the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, her office said Monday.

The grand jury, set to convene Tuesday, was "previously scheduled by the former prosecutor," said the statement from Corey.

Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, texted his reaction to CNN's Martin Savidge: "Not surprised. Don't know what her decision will be. Courageous move on her part."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Added. before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, this really does not mean much. the prosecutor has a reputation for not using grand juries (see prior news article in the OP), and grand juries are not required for non-first degree murder cases in Florida--at best this case is probably second degree murder, but most likely manslaughter. most jurisdictions have done away with the grand jury requirement because its just a waste of time and money usually. plus, grand juries usually do what the prosecutor says anyways.

that being said, if the prosecutor does not have zimmerman arrested, this is not going to end well. the grand jury at least would have given the sense of impartiality (i.e., not the police department, state attorneys making the decision). having the special prosecutor not decide to arrest will likely be viewed as just another injustice (whether you agree he is guilty or not).

quote from CNN article:

Corey said previously she has never used a grand jury to decide on charges in a justifiable homicide case.

"We do a thorough investigation. We make that decision ourselves," she said.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
April 09 2012 17:41 GMT
#670
On April 10 2012 02:39 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 01:41 Zaqwe wrote:
Looks like either charges aren't going to be filed or they are planning to railroad Zimmerman on charges that would never get past a grand jury based on the evidence.

Prosecutor won't use grand jury in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has decided against using a grand jury in the case involving the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, her office said Monday.

The grand jury, set to convene Tuesday, was "previously scheduled by the former prosecutor," said the statement from Corey.

Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, texted his reaction to CNN's Martin Savidge: "Not surprised. Don't know what her decision will be. Courageous move on her part."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Added. before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, this really does not mean much. the prosecutor has a reputation for not using grand juries (see prior news article in the OP), and grand juries are not required for non-first degree murder cases in Florida--at best this case is probably second degree murder, but most likely manslaughter. most jurisdictions have done away with the grand jury requirement because its just a waste of time and money usually. plus, grand juries usually do what the prosecutor says anyways.

that being said, if the prosecutor does not have zimmerman arrested, this is not going to end well. the grand jury at least would have given the sense of impartiality (i.e., not the police department, state attorneys making the decision). having the special prosecutor not decide to arrest will likely be viewed as just another injustice (whether you agree he is guilty or not).

It seems abundantly obvious that Florida's justice system has already failed on multiple fronts, I only wish that there were some sort of way the case could be made federal. We'll have to wait and see what this lack of grand jury ends up amounting to, but the future looks bleak.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Zaqwe
Profile Joined March 2012
591 Posts
April 09 2012 17:54 GMT
#671
On April 10 2012 02:41 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 02:39 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 10 2012 01:41 Zaqwe wrote:
Looks like either charges aren't going to be filed or they are planning to railroad Zimmerman on charges that would never get past a grand jury based on the evidence.

Prosecutor won't use grand jury in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has decided against using a grand jury in the case involving the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, her office said Monday.

The grand jury, set to convene Tuesday, was "previously scheduled by the former prosecutor," said the statement from Corey.

Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, texted his reaction to CNN's Martin Savidge: "Not surprised. Don't know what her decision will be. Courageous move on her part."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Added. before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, this really does not mean much. the prosecutor has a reputation for not using grand juries (see prior news article in the OP), and grand juries are not required for non-first degree murder cases in Florida--at best this case is probably second degree murder, but most likely manslaughter. most jurisdictions have done away with the grand jury requirement because its just a waste of time and money usually. plus, grand juries usually do what the prosecutor says anyways.

that being said, if the prosecutor does not have zimmerman arrested, this is not going to end well. the grand jury at least would have given the sense of impartiality (i.e., not the police department, state attorneys making the decision). having the special prosecutor not decide to arrest will likely be viewed as just another injustice (whether you agree he is guilty or not).

It seems abundantly obvious that Florida's justice system has already failed on multiple fronts, I only wish that there were some sort of way the case could be made federal. We'll have to wait and see what this lack of grand jury ends up amounting to, but the future looks bleak.

Seems like Florida's justice system has been doing fine so far.

In what ways do you think they have "failed"?
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 10 2012 16:28 GMT
#672
Police Car Shot Up in Trayvon Martin's Neighborhood

Six shots were fired into an empty police cruiser early today in the Florida neighborhood where black teenager Trayvon Martin was shot and killed as the mayor warned that the town has become a "kindling box."

No one was injured in the 4:30 a.m. shooting at the Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Fla. Police removed the vehicle and have begun an investigation.

The shooting occurred as tensions continue in this small middle class city. One official told ABC News tension could soon reaching a boiling point. ABC News has learned that the emergency operation centers of three counties have been activated at Level II, the same level of preparedness used ahead of a hurricane.

"Are we a kindling box? Sure," said Mayor Jeff Triplett. "But we're working down a path and so far it's been absolutely peaceful."

He said noting the city hopes to hard to avoid conflict violence, even allowing protesters to blockade the police department Monday and shutting it down.

Martin, 17, was unarmed when he was shot by George Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic neighborhood watch captain on Feb. 26.

The shooting has spawned outrage in the black community with protests and demands that Zimmerman be arrested for murder.

But Zimmerman claims that the shooting had nothing to do with race, that he shot Martin in self defense after the teenager knocked him down, slammed his head into the ground and went for Zimmerman's gun.

Mayor Calls Sanford, Florida, a 'Tinderbox'

In the weeks after the shooting, outraged supporters of the Martin family held rallies and protests demanding that Zimmerman be arrested. Electronic roadside signs had been used throughout Central Florida to alert people to the rallies.

And the New Black Panther Party offered a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman.

A backlash has been growing, though, with distinct racist undertones.

In Detroit, far from the Florida town where Martin was shot and killed, drivers were shocked on Sunday to see an electronic highway sign with the word "Trayvon" followed by a racial slur. The offensive message was quickly erased.

At Ohio State University last week the words "Long Live Zimmerman" were scrawled across the side of the Frank W. Hale Jr. Black Cultural Center, a part of the university's Office of Diversity and Inclusion.

"It's a hate crime," Larry Williamson Jr., director of the Hale center, told ABC News. "Some people see it as just graffiti but if you see something done in such a negative way, you're going to have a community that feels hate."

In Sanford, where the shooting took place, the specter of racism is ubiquitous.

A group of armed neo-Nazis from the National Socialist Movement have descended upon the town, touting their intention to patrol the town to protect whites against a race riot.

"We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over," Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement told The Miami NewTimes.

The Rev. Terry Jones, the controversial pastor who once threatened to burn copies of the Koran, announced last week his plan to hold a rally on April 21 at the Seminole County Courthouse in support of Zimmerman and his constitutional rights.

And reporters covering the emotionally charged story have been inundated with angry tweets and social media messages, with some of the messages verging on threats.

Capt. Robert O'Connor of the Sanford Police Department told ABC News, "Law enforcement agencies in the area are monitoring a variety of activities and groups to ensure that conditions remain peaceful."

Mark Potok, fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center and Editor of the Intelligence Report says that he's not surprised by the emergence of hate groups and that the Martin situation has merely shone a light on existing racial tensions.

"There are eruptions of race whenever there are high profile cases in which white people are accused of real racist violence towards black people. It really isn't surprising. The context is that we're living through a time in which there are very real racial tensions in this society," Potok said.

"What we're seeing now are the opportunists from all sides. It's a bunch of vile, outside groups and I'm speaking of both the Black Panther party and National Socialist Group," he said.

Potok believes that the Martin case has irrevocably shaped the discussion on race in America, relating this case to the recent shooting in Tulsa, Okla., in which four black men and a woman were shot by two white men. Three of the shooting victims died.

"Inevitably it seems that the Tulsa shooting will be discussed in the same breath. Seems very different, but the Tulsa shootings will become a part of the Trayvon conversation because it's more evidence of very serious racial divides in this country," Potok said.


http://gma.yahoo.com/police-car-shot-trayvon-martins-neighborhood-184110824--abc-news-topstories.html
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
April 10 2012 17:20 GMT
#673
On April 10 2012 02:39 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 01:41 Zaqwe wrote:
Looks like either charges aren't going to be filed or they are planning to railroad Zimmerman on charges that would never get past a grand jury based on the evidence.

Prosecutor won't use grand jury in Trayvon Martin shooting case

Special prosecutor Angela Corey has decided against using a grand jury in the case involving the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, her office said Monday.

The grand jury, set to convene Tuesday, was "previously scheduled by the former prosecutor," said the statement from Corey.

Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, texted his reaction to CNN's Martin Savidge: "Not surprised. Don't know what her decision will be. Courageous move on her part."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Added. before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, this really does not mean much. the prosecutor has a reputation for not using grand juries (see prior news article in the OP), and grand juries are not required for non-first degree murder cases in Florida--at best this case is probably second degree murder, but most likely manslaughter. most jurisdictions have done away with the grand jury requirement because its just a waste of time and money usually. plus, grand juries usually do what the prosecutor says anyways.

that being said, if the prosecutor does not have zimmerman arrested, this is not going to end well. the grand jury at least would have given the sense of impartiality (i.e., not the police department, state attorneys making the decision). having the special prosecutor not decide to arrest will likely be viewed as just another injustice (whether you agree he is guilty or not).

quote from CNN article:

Show nested quote +
Corey said previously she has never used a grand jury to decide on charges in a justifiable homicide case.

"We do a thorough investigation. We make that decision ourselves," she said.


I think that her decision not to bring this to a grand jury is likely an indication that she has already made her mind up to bring charges.
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
April 10 2012 18:09 GMT
#674
On April 05 2012 16:36 dAPhREAk wrote:
Pretty good recap of the news to date.

Night of Trayvon Martin's killing filled with conflicting reports

+ Show Spoiler +
Sunday evening, Feb. 26: It was raining in central Florida while the NBA All-Star game and the Oscars were about to begin on TV.

A 17-year-old high school junior from Miami Gardens serving a 10-day suspension went to 7-Eleven to get candy. It was the third time Trayvon Martin had been disciplined at school, so this time his parents sent him to a quiet, racially mixed gated community in Sanford, Fla., with his dad to get his priorities straight. He was African American and wore a hoodie.

George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer who routinely called police to report anything awry, had just made dinner and told his family he was headed to Target. He was Hispanic and wore a holstered Kel Tek 9mm semiautomatic handgun.

The brief encounter between the two at the Retreat at Twin Lakes community would leave one dead and the other in hiding, give rise to a social movement and, at least temporarily, cost the local police chief his job. During the next 30 days, the name "Trayvon" would be tweeted more than 2 million times.

In a fast-paced world of 24-hour cable news and nonstop social media, what happened that night has become both common knowledge and a blur of unattributed rumor accepted as fact. A controversial police report incited conspiracy theories and failed to definitively resolve what everyone wants to know: Who picked the fight? At least three agencies, including the FBI, are investigating.
2 strangers

The protagonists in the saga gripping the nation are Zimmerman, a man with a history of going after suspects in hot pursuit, and Trayvon, a chronically tardy teenager who was making plans for college and got suspended for having an empty baggie containing marijuana residue. Their story begins when Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and chased Trayvon.

But in the tale pieced together from 911 calls, witnesses, police, Zimmerman's family and a girl who was on the phone with Trayvon during the last minutes of his life, a crucial one-minute gap remains a mystery: Who approached whom? Who threw the first blow?

And a special prosecutor in Jacksonville, Fla., is now tasked to investigate the key question: Did Zimmerman justifiably take Trayvon's life to save his own?

Trayvon was a lot like most teenagers: He spent an inordinate amount of time on the phone. That Sunday, he talked for nearly five hours.

Earplugs in his ears, Arizona iced tea in hand and a cell phone, Skittles and $22 in his pockets, he chatted the whole way back from the store. It started raining harder as he walked, so he pulled up his hood and sought shelter at a building in the townhouse complex, the girlfriend he was on the phone with later told attorneys.

At 7:11 p.m., Zimmerman, who was in his truck, spotted Trayvon. The neighborhood had had a rash of burglaries, attributed to young black men, and Zimmerman was wary of someone he did not recognize walking along the path through the back of the townhouses, his father later told a local TV station.

Zimmerman called police. It was the fifth time in a year that he had alerted authorities to the presence of a black male he found suspicious, records show. This one, he said, looked high and had something in one hand while he kept the other in his waist as he peered at houses.
2 perspectives

"Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," he told the police operator. "This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining, and he's just walking around looking about."

Trayvon saw something suspicious, too: He was being followed.

A T-Mobile phone log provided by the family's attorney shows Trayvon's girlfriend called him again at 7:12 p.m., just moments after they had hung up. "I think this dude is following me," Trayvon told her, according to her account.

The girl said she offered Trayvon advice: "Run!"

Trayvon did just that.

At 7:13, two minutes into Zimmerman's call, he tells the police operator: "S --, he's running."

A beeping sound is heard, indicating that he opened his car door. Zimmerman went after Trayvon and, out of breath, muttered profanities. He lost sight of him.

"Are you following him?" the operator asked.

"Yeah."

"OK, we don't need you to do that."

Zimmerman spent almost two more minutes offering directions to the operator. He said he would meet police by the mailboxes and then, just before hanging up, apparently thought better of it. "Actually, could you have him call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?" he said three minutes and 50 seconds into the call. At 7:15, he hung up.

The two met up along a dark paved path that runs between the back of two rows of townhouses.

The girlfriend said she heard the two exchange questions: "Why are you following me?" and "What are you doing here?"

Zimmerman's dad told an Orlando TV station that it went more like, "Do you have a f --ing problem?" to which George Zimmerman replied no and reached for his phone to call police again.

Zimmerman, a married insurance underwriter who studied criminal justice at Seminole State College, told police that Trayvon approached him from behind as he was returning to his car. He told police, his family and his attorney that Trayvon decked him in the nose hard, causing him to hit the ground. Then, he says, Trayvon started punching him and slamming his head on the concrete.

The girl who was talking to Trayvon said she heard a scuffle until the line went dead at 7:16.

Although Sanford police would not reveal the times, 911 tapes show that the first of the residents' calls came while Zimmerman and Trayvon were fighting. Desperate wails are heard in the background of at least one call. Two witnesses say they saw the encounter, but their stories contradict each other.

One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket -- Zimmerman -- on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him -- Trayvon.

But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn't much movement, he said.

Zimmerman's father told Orlando's Fox 35 TV station that as his son was being beaten he tried to move from the concrete onto the grass. In doing so, he said, the gun his son kept in a holster on his waist was exposed.

"Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of 'You're going to die now' or 'You're gonna die tonight' " Robert Zimmerman said. "He continued to beat George. At some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did."
Calls for help

Seven calls came in to 911.

"They're wrestling right in the back of my porch," one caller said. "A guy is yelling, 'Help.' ... I'm pretty sure the guy is dead."

"I saw a man lying on the ground and he needed help, screaming," a 13-year-old boy told 911. "I heard a loud sound, and the screaming stopped."

Selma Mora Lamilla said she heard no fighting, only the wail of a child and the distinct crack of gunfire that silenced it. She ran outside her back porch, where she said she saw Zimmerman standing above Trayvon, apparently holding him down.

"I asked him, 'What's happening here? What's going on?' " Lamilla said. "He said, 'Just call the police.' Then I saw him with his hands over his head in the universal sign of: 'Oh man, I messed up.' "

The police arrived at 7:17. Trayvon was dead.

The first officer to arrive was Timothy Smith, who said he found a white man in a red jacket and jeans standing and a black male in a gray hooded sweat shirt facedown in the grass.

Smith later wrote: "Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject, and he was still armed. ... Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semiauto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground.

"Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

Officer Ricardo Ayala and Sgt. Anthony Raimondo attempted CPR on Trayvon until Sanford Fire Rescue arrived. A paramedic pronounced Trayvon dead at 7:30.

Zimmerman was handcuffed and placed in Smith's patrol car. Sanford Fire Rescue administered first aid.

"While SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state, 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me,' " Smith wrote.

That someone shouted is corroborated by 911 callers, who reported hearing screams for help just before they heard gunfire.

But it is unclear which of the two cried for help. All the callers now believe the person who cried is the one who ended up dead; the parents of Zimmerman and Trayvon are each convinced that it was their son screaming for help.

Zimmerman was taken to the Sanford Police Department in handcuffs. A time stamp on the precinct security camera video shows he got there at 7:52 p.m. An officer patted him down.

The video shows no obvious sign of injury or bloodstains on his clothes, although one shot shows an officer examining the back of Zimmerman's head, then wiping his hands on his pants.

Meanwhile, police fingerprinted the dead teen, who carried no identification. He had never been arrested, so 12 hours passed before anyone knew his name.

"I have never seen a crime scene cleaned up so fast," Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, told the Miami Herald. He came home that night just before 11 p.m. and saw no trace of a crime. It was not until he called police the next morning that a detective went to the townhouse where his girlfriend lives to break the news.

Zimmerman, meanwhile, had been questioned by police and released without charges.

Police stressed that Zimmerman was interviewed at least three times and gave a videotaped statement. Zimmerman, whose father is a retired Virginia magistrate, never asked for an attorney or changed his story, former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee said.

The investigation began with detectives interrogating Zimmerman and patrol officers canvassing the 911 callers.

One caller said he had seen a man with a white T-shirt on top of the other. Neither Zimmerman nor Trayvon wore white.

Another caller, Lamilla's roommate, Mary Cutcher, phoned police after the gunshot and said the black man was standing over another man, which would have been impossible, because Trayvon was already dead.

Investigation

Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators were at the gated community last week, re-interviewing witnesses. The probe also is expected to lean heavily on audio experts to try to determine whether it was Trayvon or Zimmerman crying in the first 911 call.

Several days passed before police released a report with an account that said Zimmerman had blood on his nose and the back of his head, fueling suspicion that the department was attempting to bolster Zimmerman's story and defend the lack of an arrest.

The report lists the height and weight of every person, including the 911 callers. The only person whose size is not noted is Zimmerman. At 5 feet 9, Zimmerman was much shorter but heavier than Trayvon. The report listed lists Trayvon at 6 feet and 160 pounds, though his family said he was actually 6 feet 3 and weighed, at most, 150 pounds.

Although some people thought they heard two shots, a review of the confiscated weapon showed only one shot was fired, a police spokesman told the Miami Herald. The Seminole County State Attorney's Office was called the night of the shooting, as is routine with all killings, but no one from the office went to the scene. It is unclear who gave the order to let Zimmerman go.

Although police publicly said there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, it was later revealed that investigators had requested an arrest warrant from the State Attorney's Office, which held off for further review. The case has since been reassigned to a special prosecutor in Jacksonville.

The Sanford police and the Seminole state attorney have referred questions to special prosecutor Angela Corey. Her office said it will not answer inquiries about the case.

Much of the evidence, such as the autopsy report, which would show results of Trayvon's toxicology test, are not yet public record. Police have declined to release Zimmerman's statements or that of the witnesses. The Ft. Lauderdale funeral director who handled arrangements for Trayvon's family told reporters that he saw no bruises or blood on the teen's knuckles. Police said Zimmerman provided medical records to support evidence of his injuries.

In an interview two weeks after the incident, Chief Lee, who has since stepped down from his post, said witness statements and physical evidence backed up Zimmerman's version of events. He suggested that based on the timing of the call, he believed that Trayvon went out of his way to approach the person tailing him and mouth off.


http://www.freep.com/article/C4/20120405/NEWS07/204050441/Night-of-Trayvon-Martin-s-killing-filled-with-conflicting-reports?odyssey=nav|head


Glad you found an article that has a definite time for Zimmerman's police call, I was sure it was very shortly before the incident. I guess his call went from 7:11 to 7:15, just as Trayvon's went from 7:12 to 7:16 one minute before the police got there. that article is a good one.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
April 10 2012 18:18 GMT
#675
On April 08 2012 07:59 Freddybear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 07:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
I usually enjoy Bill Cosby's thoughts on race-related issues. His opinion on this case--although insightful--is kind of reserved though.

SIMMONS: Bill Cosby weighs in on Trayvon Martin case

Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” said Mr. Cosby, whose remarks were the first he has made publicly about the case.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Mr. Cosby explained. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody,” he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/7/simmons-bill-cosby-weighs-trayvon-martin-case/


I'm afraid that Mr. Cosby has it wrong there. When you carry a gun you should not be intending to draw it unless you have to. When you draw the gun, you intend to harm somebody. And when you shoot the gun, you aim to kill.


A gun is designed to kill, that's what it does well. When you carry one, that means you have an easy power to kill someone with. Deadly force is not to be taken lightly, or used ever if necessary. It's not a tool for defense, it's a tool for slaying.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 10 2012 20:48 GMT
#676
he finally speaks out (kind of). george zimmerman created his own website.

I am the real George Zimmerman,
On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event which led me to become the subject of intense media coverage. As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life. This website's sole purpose is to ensure my supporters they are receiving my full attention without any intermediaries.

It has come to my attention that some persons and/or entities have been collecting funds, thinly veiled as my “Defense Fund” or "Legal Fund". I cannot attest to the validity of these other websites as I have not received any funds collected, intended to support my family and I through this trying, tragic time.

I have created a Paypal account solely linked on this website as I would like to provide an avenue to thank my supporters personally and ensure that any funds provided are used only for living expenses and legal defense, in lieu of my forced inability to maintain employment. I will also personally, maintain accountability of all funds received. I reassure you, every donation is appreciated.
Sincerely,
George Zimmerman


http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/

some excerpts:

"Facts"

"People have a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight" - James W. Loewen

I am grateful to my friends that have come to my aid, whether publicly or personally, never questioning my integrity or actions, understanding that I cannot discuss the details of the event on February 26th, and allowing law enforcement to proceed with their investigation unhindered. Once again, I thank you for your patience and I assure you, the facts will come to light.


actually, there is not much on the website. kind of shitty too.

link where i found out about his website:

http://gawker.com/5900505/george-zimmerman-has-a-website-seeks-donations

Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
April 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#677
BREAKING NEWS

Zimmerman's defense team quits.

George Zimmerman's attorneys said in a press conference this afternoon that they will no longer be representing him, because they have not been able to locate him and because he has rebuffed their counsel.

The attorneys said that they had "lost contact" with Zimmerman, and said that he reached out to both Sean Hannity, the Fox News host, as well as the special prosecutor in the case. The lawyers said that Zimmerman had stopped responding to their phone calls, and that they did not know exactly where he was.

This is breaking news. Updates to follow.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8501 Posts
April 10 2012 21:06 GMT
#678
On April 11 2012 05:59 Defacer wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

Zimmerman's defense team quits.

Show nested quote +
George Zimmerman's attorneys said in a press conference this afternoon that they will no longer be representing him, because they have not been able to locate him and because he has rebuffed their counsel.

The attorneys said that they had "lost contact" with Zimmerman, and said that he reached out to both Sean Hannity, the Fox News host, as well as the special prosecutor in the case. The lawyers said that Zimmerman had stopped responding to their phone calls, and that they did not know exactly where he was.

This is breaking news. Updates to follow.


This really is a story with twists and turns as no other in recent history imho... just lol.
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
April 10 2012 21:09 GMT
#679

He set up a defense fund website that went through himself first... instead of one that went through his attorneys first.

That was the straw that did it I bet.

They want to get paid. Which is a 100% perfectly legit reason.



dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 21:15:14
April 10 2012 21:09 GMT
#680
On April 11 2012 05:59 Defacer wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

Zimmerman's defense team quits.

Show nested quote +
George Zimmerman's attorneys said in a press conference this afternoon that they will no longer be representing him, because they have not been able to locate him and because he has rebuffed their counsel.

The attorneys said that they had "lost contact" with Zimmerman, and said that he reached out to both Sean Hannity, the Fox News host, as well as the special prosecutor in the case. The lawyers said that Zimmerman had stopped responding to their phone calls, and that they did not know exactly where he was.

This is breaking news. Updates to follow.

you need to give me links so i can update op. i found it elsewhere though.

i find this news particularly despicable. this case is at a very important juncture for zimmerman (right before he may be arrested), and his attorneys are holding press conferences about withdrawing as his attorneys. fucking despicable from attention whore attorneys in my opinion. see rules in next post.
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