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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 172

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
June 27 2013 17:58 GMT
#3421
On June 28 2013 02:57 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you?


And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone.


I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact.


Afaik, that's what Zman said.

edit: daphreak, up until now it was the judge lecturing the defense. does LR mean liverecord?

It means Daphreak wants a TL court reporter on the case


Ah, okay. I don't understand the girl good enough to report i guess, well.. I'm recording anyway, could restream that to him if he wants
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 17:59:23
June 27 2013 17:58 GMT
#3422
On June 28 2013 02:57 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:56 dAPhREAk wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you?


And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone.


I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact.


Afaik, that's what Zman said.

punched once, and then slammed his head against the concrete. so, yes, only one punch according to zimmerman so far.


LR = liverecord? Since i would.

Live Report technically, like it is done for SC. Basically keeping the thread updated on important things said at the trial.
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
June 27 2013 17:59 GMT
#3423
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.
czylu
Profile Joined June 2012
477 Posts
June 27 2013 17:59 GMT
#3424
On June 28 2013 02:53 ranshaked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:50 czylu wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:48 ranshaked wrote:
I think everyone has a different idea of what they consider "danger of their life"

When I was jumped years ago, I was genuinely in danger of my life. If I had a gun on me, I would have shot the people, but I didn't. Instead, I had to have someone drive me to a hospital with blood everywhere. It turns out I was fine (didn't crack the orbital), but at the time I genuinely would have used a gun if I had one.

In the heat of the moment, anything can happen, so in a way I see why Zimmerman shot Trayvon.


and after the moment has passed, you suffer the consequences, as Mr. Zimmerman has/will.


Why should I get in trouble? I was jumped, they instigated it? How do I know that I'm not going to die unless it happens? If I'm bleeding everywhere, and I'm having the shit kicked out of me, at what point do I get to shoot? Or, do I just let them continue to beat the hell out of me until they stop?

Why isn't lethal force on my end allowed in order to say myself from bodily harm/possible death? (you CAN die from freak shit like being punched once and fall down unconscious)

Personally, if someone ever does it again to me, I'd have no problem shooting them in self defense. If you want to punch me in the face, fine, then take a bullet to the face imo


How much you fear for your own life is irrelevant to the actual danger to your life. Look @ Oscar Pistorious, he feared for his life, and he killed his unarmed girlfriend as a result.
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
June 27 2013 17:59 GMT
#3425
On June 28 2013 02:58 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:57 m4inbrain wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:56 dAPhREAk wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you?


And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone.


I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact.


Afaik, that's what Zman said.

punched once, and then slammed his head against the concrete. so, yes, only one punch according to zimmerman so far.


LR = liverecord? Since i would.

Live Report technically, like it is done for SC. Basically keeping the thread updated on important things said at the trial.


Well, i don't understand enough, but the defense stopped asking her now.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2013 18:00 GMT
#3426
Finally cross is over. The State has some work to do on redirect.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
June 27 2013 18:00 GMT
#3427
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.

Trayvon was only 5'11.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
czylu
Profile Joined June 2012
477 Posts
June 27 2013 18:00 GMT
#3428
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 27 2013 18:00 GMT
#3429
On June 28 2013 02:58 ranshaked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:56 ragz_gt wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:53 ranshaked wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:50 czylu wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:48 ranshaked wrote:
I think everyone has a different idea of what they consider "danger of their life"

When I was jumped years ago, I was genuinely in danger of my life. If I had a gun on me, I would have shot the people, but I didn't. Instead, I had to have someone drive me to a hospital with blood everywhere. It turns out I was fine (didn't crack the orbital), but at the time I genuinely would have used a gun if I had one.

In the heat of the moment, anything can happen, so in a way I see why Zimmerman shot Trayvon.


and after the moment has passed, you suffer the consequences, as Mr. Zimmerman has/will.


Why should I get in trouble? I was jumped, they instigated it? How do I know that I'm not going to die unless it happens? If I'm bleeding everywhere, and I'm having the shit kicked out of me, at what point do I get to shoot? Or, do I just let them continue to beat the hell out of me until they stop?

Why isn't lethal force on my end allowed in order to say myself from bodily harm/possible death? (you CAN die from freak shit like being punched once and fall down unconscious)

Personally, if someone ever does it again to me, I'd have no problem shooting them in self defense. If you want to punch me in the face, fine, then take a bullet to the face imo


If you instigated the situation in the first place, then you will be, and that's what's on trial now: did Zimmerman instigate the situation?
No. I told them to quit being rude to the lady behind me. They didn't like what I said, and started throwing punches.

What is considered instigating? To me, the first person to throw a punch is the instigator, regardless of what chit chat went on before.


You: "I don't like your personality"

Him: Throws a punch

You: Shoots Him

Some people find that line of logic problematic.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
m4inbrain
Profile Joined November 2011
1505 Posts
June 27 2013 18:01 GMT
#3430
On June 28 2013 03:00 xDaunt wrote:
Finally cross is over. The State has some work to do on redirect.


Feel free to LR. It's hard enough to me to follow in a foreign language, let alone writing it down while doing so. ^^
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
June 27 2013 18:01 GMT
#3431
On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.

Trayvon was only 5'11.


No he wasn't. When he stood next to the cashier at the 7/11 (who is 5'10") he towered over him. I don't know where this 5'11" even comes from.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 27 2013 18:01 GMT
#3432
See, this is what the Stated needed to do at the outset of direct. They needed to take time to explain where she's coming from with regards to her speaking habits. It's probably too late now.
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
June 27 2013 18:02 GMT
#3433
On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.


Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
June 27 2013 18:02 GMT
#3434
On June 28 2013 03:01 Esk23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.

Trayvon was only 5'11.


No he wasn't. When he stood next to the cashier at the 7/11 (who is 5'10") he towered over him. I don't know where this 5'11" even comes from.

autopsy report.

The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43]
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 27 2013 18:02 GMT
#3435
On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.

Trayvon was only 5'11.


Pfft. Maybe when he was 12. In that 7-11 he towered over the 5'10" clerk.
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
June 27 2013 18:02 GMT
#3436
On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.

Why should you have to go to jail for using something that you have the right to use? Why should I have to go to jail because I shot someone that is beating the shit out of me? That makes zero sense. Why am I being punished for someone else' wrongdoing.

This is the same logic that goes on in classrooms today in which we suspend both kids, even though ONE of them started it.
Yorke
Profile Joined November 2010
England881 Posts
June 27 2013 18:02 GMT
#3437
On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.

That might have been witty had it made an ounce of sense.
@YorkeSC - RIP MIT Police Officer Sean Collier, BW fan
czylu
Profile Joined June 2012
477 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 18:04:07
June 27 2013 18:03 GMT
#3438
On June 28 2013 03:02 Esk23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.


Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from.


Ironically I live in the US, and that's how it's always been. Why do you think Zimmerman is on trial atm? He's taking responsibility for defending himself w/ deadly force against an unarmed minor.
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
June 27 2013 18:03 GMT
#3439
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&sa=N&biw=943&bih=844&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=l4spAl9aLT3N7M:&imgrefurl=http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/video-trayvon-martin-moments-before-he-died/&docid=900kjTQeYP-GIM&imgurl=http://sandrarose.com/images15/trayvon-martin-video.jpg%3F42e305&w=587&h=373&ei=Un7MUcacOoaeiAKcwoHoBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=168&vpy=530&dur=31&hovh=179&hovw=282&tx=214&ty=131&page=2&tbnh=144&tbnw=214&start=28&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:34,s:0,i:194

Does Trayvon Martin look fcking 5'11" to anyone in this picture? The cashier is 5'10".
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 18:04:57
June 27 2013 18:04 GMT
#3440
On June 28 2013 03:03 czylu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 03:02 Esk23 wrote:
On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:
On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.

This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.


You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.


Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from.


Ironically I live in the US, and that's how it's been. Why do you think Zimmerman is on trial atm? He's taking responsibility for defending himself w/ deadly force against an unarmed minor.

No, he is on trial for second degree murder. That's not defending yourself. He has the right to defend himself, the state is trying to prove he wasn't defending himself.
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