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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On June 28 2013 02:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you? And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone. I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact. Afaik, that's what Zman said. edit: daphreak, up until now it was the judge lecturing the defense. does LR mean liverecord? It means Daphreak wants a TL court reporter on the case 
Ah, okay. I don't understand the girl good enough to report i guess, well.. I'm recording anyway, could restream that to him if he wants 
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On June 28 2013 02:57 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you? And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone. I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact. Afaik, that's what Zman said. punched once, and then slammed his head against the concrete. so, yes, only one punch according to zimmerman so far. LR = liverecord? Since i would.
Live Report technically, like it is done for SC. Basically keeping the thread updated on important things said at the trial.
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Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.
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On June 28 2013 02:53 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:50 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 02:48 ranshaked wrote:
I think everyone has a different idea of what they consider "danger of their life"
When I was jumped years ago, I was genuinely in danger of my life. If I had a gun on me, I would have shot the people, but I didn't. Instead, I had to have someone drive me to a hospital with blood everywhere. It turns out I was fine (didn't crack the orbital), but at the time I genuinely would have used a gun if I had one.
In the heat of the moment, anything can happen, so in a way I see why Zimmerman shot Trayvon. and after the moment has passed, you suffer the consequences, as Mr. Zimmerman has/will. Why should I get in trouble? I was jumped, they instigated it? How do I know that I'm not going to die unless it happens? If I'm bleeding everywhere, and I'm having the shit kicked out of me, at what point do I get to shoot? Or, do I just let them continue to beat the hell out of me until they stop? Why isn't lethal force on my end allowed in order to say myself from bodily harm/possible death? (you CAN die from freak shit like being punched once and fall down unconscious) Personally, if someone ever does it again to me, I'd have no problem shooting them in self defense. If you want to punch me in the face, fine, then take a bullet to the face imo
How much you fear for your own life is irrelevant to the actual danger to your life. Look @ Oscar Pistorious, he feared for his life, and he killed his unarmed girlfriend as a result.
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On June 28 2013 02:58 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:57 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 02:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 28 2013 02:55 m4inbrain wrote:On June 28 2013 02:54 Tewks44 wrote:On June 28 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 02:49 Tewks44 wrote:
What is the point of guns if you can't use them to defend yourself? There is a lot of stuff that's not clear, but what is clear is that Zimmerman sustained injuries on his face and head. He was getting beaten up. What is the purpose of carrying a fire arm if you aren't allowed to use it? Are you expected to objectively determine how severely you are getting beaten up while fists are slamming you in the face? Are you suppose to analytically weigh the likelihood of the individual killing you while he's on top of you? And hence why we have people who want more gun control. Getting punched once should not be valid reason to shoot someone. I don't know why you keep insisting Trayvon only punched Zimmerman once as if it's an accepted fact. Afaik, that's what Zman said. punched once, and then slammed his head against the concrete. so, yes, only one punch according to zimmerman so far. LR = liverecord? Since i would. Live Report technically, like it is done for SC. Basically keeping the thread updated on important things said at the trial.
Well, i don't understand enough, but the defense stopped asking her now.
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Finally cross is over. The State has some work to do on redirect.
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On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.
Trayvon was only 5'11.
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On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable.
You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.
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On June 28 2013 02:58 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:56 ragz_gt wrote:On June 28 2013 02:53 ranshaked wrote:On June 28 2013 02:50 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 02:48 ranshaked wrote:
I think everyone has a different idea of what they consider "danger of their life"
When I was jumped years ago, I was genuinely in danger of my life. If I had a gun on me, I would have shot the people, but I didn't. Instead, I had to have someone drive me to a hospital with blood everywhere. It turns out I was fine (didn't crack the orbital), but at the time I genuinely would have used a gun if I had one.
In the heat of the moment, anything can happen, so in a way I see why Zimmerman shot Trayvon. and after the moment has passed, you suffer the consequences, as Mr. Zimmerman has/will. Why should I get in trouble? I was jumped, they instigated it? How do I know that I'm not going to die unless it happens? If I'm bleeding everywhere, and I'm having the shit kicked out of me, at what point do I get to shoot? Or, do I just let them continue to beat the hell out of me until they stop? Why isn't lethal force on my end allowed in order to say myself from bodily harm/possible death? (you CAN die from freak shit like being punched once and fall down unconscious) Personally, if someone ever does it again to me, I'd have no problem shooting them in self defense. If you want to punch me in the face, fine, then take a bullet to the face imo If you instigated the situation in the first place, then you will be, and that's what's on trial now: did Zimmerman instigate the situation? No. I told them to quit being rude to the lady behind me. They didn't like what I said, and started throwing punches. What is considered instigating? To me, the first person to throw a punch is the instigator, regardless of what chit chat went on before.
You: "I don't like your personality"
Him: Throws a punch
You: Shoots Him
Some people find that line of logic problematic.
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On June 28 2013 03:00 xDaunt wrote:
Finally cross is over. The State has some work to do on redirect.
Feel free to LR. It's hard enough to me to follow in a foreign language, let alone writing it down while doing so. ^^
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On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. Trayvon was only 5'11.
No he wasn't. When he stood next to the cashier at the 7/11 (who is 5'10") he towered over him. I don't know where this 5'11" even comes from.
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See, this is what the Stated needed to do at the outset of direct. They needed to take time to explain where she's coming from with regards to her speaking habits. It's probably too late now.
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On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.
Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from.
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On June 28 2013 03:01 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. Trayvon was only 5'11. No he wasn't. When he stood next to the cashier at the 7/11 (who is 5'10") he towered over him. I don't know where this 5'11" even comes from.
autopsy report.
The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg).[15][39]Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting.[40] The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[41][42] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.[39][43]
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On June 28 2013 03:00 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. Trayvon was only 5'11.
Pfft. Maybe when he was 12. In that 7-11 he towered over the 5'10" clerk.
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On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.
Why should you have to go to jail for using something that you have the right to use? Why should I have to go to jail because I shot someone that is beating the shit out of me? That makes zero sense. Why am I being punished for someone else' wrongdoing.
This is the same logic that goes on in classrooms today in which we suspend both kids, even though ONE of them started it.
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On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it.
That might have been witty had it made an ounce of sense.
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On June 28 2013 03:02 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it. Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from.
Ironically I live in the US, and that's how it's always been. Why do you think Zimmerman is on trial atm? He's taking responsibility for defending himself w/ deadly force against an unarmed minor.
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On June 28 2013 03:03 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 03:02 Esk23 wrote:On June 28 2013 03:00 czylu wrote:On June 28 2013 02:59 Esk23 wrote:
Some idiots don't think you have the right to defend yourself and defend yourself with deadly force. That's what this comes down to.
Zimmerman did nothing wrong, he did not follow or chase or hunt down anyone. He got out of his car to get an address for the police when he was jumped by Trayvon Martin. When you get attacked by someone who's 6'3" in almost complete darkness especially when you're suspicious of the person because of what he was doing, it should scare the shit out of anyone who values their life. He had trauma to the back of his head that is consistent with his head being slammed into the concrete. He shot Trayvon in self defense, for all he knows Trayvon won't stop until he kills him.
This case shouldn't have even gone to trial. The prosecution's witnesses are all impeachable. You have the right to defend yourself w/ deadly force. You also have the right to go to jail for it. Not in this country, buddy. Luckily the USA isn't anything like wherever you're from. Ironically I live in the US, and that's how it's been. Why do you think Zimmerman is on trial atm? He's taking responsibility for defending himself w/ deadly force against an unarmed minor.
No, he is on trial for second degree murder. That's not defending yourself. He has the right to defend himself, the state is trying to prove he wasn't defending himself.
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