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Wheel of Time - Page 11

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Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
November 09 2010 20:21 GMT
#201
I'm inclined to agree. I've found Sanderson's two volumes the best and most refreshing after the first 4.
Headlines
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States482 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-10 01:31:46
November 10 2010 01:31 GMT
#202
+ Show Spoiler +
I was so heart-broken after I read Aviendha's visions from walking through the ter'angreal. I've always been a quiet fan of the Seanchan, but after reading about their complete takeover of the westlands and the destruction of the Aiel by their hands... I was disgusted. To the pit of doom with the Seanchan! The story in TGS should have been Rand balefires the Seanchan and then remorses over it after he ascends to Jesushood. F***!!!!!!!!
lagmaster
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States374 Posts
November 10 2010 01:55 GMT
#203
On November 10 2010 10:31 Headlines wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I was so heart-broken after I read Aviendha's visions from walking through the ter'angreal. I've always been a quiet fan of the Seanchan, but after reading about their complete takeover of the westlands and the destruction of the Aiel by their hands... I was disgusted. To the pit of doom with the Seanchan! The story in TGS should have been Rand balefires the Seanchan and then remorses over it after he ascends to Jesushood. F***!!!!!!!!



+ Show Spoiler +
You shouldn't be mad at the Seanchan. You could see from her visions that the Aiel started the war. They didn't even have a good reason to start it. The Aiel justified their war against the Seanchan because they (the Aiel) were born to fight and to die. It's the mindset and the culture they live in that is to blame.

I'm pretty sure Aviendha will convince Rand to do something monumental to change the Aiel's future. The question is what. I'm also curious as to how Rand/Mat will make peace with the Seanchan. Do you just walk up to Tuon/Fortuna and say "Hey, did you know you can channel the same as any damane? How about we focus on the big bad monsters who want to eat us all instead of each other? That will be an interesting encounter.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
November 14 2010 17:11 GMT
#204
On November 10 2010 10:55 lagmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 10:31 Headlines wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I was so heart-broken after I read Aviendha's visions from walking through the ter'angreal. I've always been a quiet fan of the Seanchan, but after reading about their complete takeover of the westlands and the destruction of the Aiel by their hands... I was disgusted. To the pit of doom with the Seanchan! The story in TGS should have been Rand balefires the Seanchan and then remorses over it after he ascends to Jesushood. F***!!!!!!!!



+ Show Spoiler +
You shouldn't be mad at the Seanchan. You could see from her visions that the Aiel started the war. They didn't even have a good reason to start it. The Aiel justified their war against the Seanchan because they (the Aiel) were born to fight and to die. It's the mindset and the culture they live in that is to blame.

I'm pretty sure Aviendha will convince Rand to do something monumental to change the Aiel's future. The question is what. I'm also curious as to how Rand/Mat will make peace with the Seanchan. Do you just walk up to Tuon/Fortuna and say "Hey, did you know you can channel the same as any damane? How about we focus on the big bad monsters who want to eat us all instead of each other? That will be an interesting encounter.


+ Show Spoiler +
The Seanchan enslaved Aiel Wise Ones as damane and refused to return them. That's a pretty good reason for a war in my opinion. Seeing the future beyond the end of the series was definitely cool. I kind of groaned when I got to the Aviendha chapters, but they ended up being a few of the best in the book. It seems that Rand's demands of all the nations will be the peace among themselves, and he'll probably demand the same peace of the Seanchan in exchange for bowing to the Crystal Throne.

Also, kinda funny how Asmodean's killer was such a big mystery for so many years, and then it's revealed in the glossary for ToM (although it was indirectly mentioned in the book itself).
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
ThaZenith
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3116 Posts
November 14 2010 20:10 GMT
#205
This totally reminded me that the next book was supposed to be coming out right about now.

Gotta go look it up, thanks for the reminder guys lol. And thanks for spoilers if you were talking about it. ^^
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
November 14 2010 20:18 GMT
#206
They're talking about it. Go get it now.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Minzy
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia387 Posts
November 15 2010 01:06 GMT
#207
So just finished the book, i have to say the last 200 or so pages felt pretty rushed, there were heaps of jump's in time and developements based on assumptions, im not going to say i hated it, but i dont think this is how the book should have progressed, i am aware that they cant physically make the book bigger, nor do they want to release more then 3 books, but it just doesnt feel like this is how it should be.
Huh...
DaemonX
Profile Joined September 2010
545 Posts
November 15 2010 01:34 GMT
#208
Loved WoT, just bought the latest book...
Sanderson did a really great job with the last.
DaemonX
Profile Joined September 2010
545 Posts
November 15 2010 09:57 GMT
#209
On November 10 2010 03:39 Undrass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 02:48 KOFgokuon wrote:
On November 09 2010 23:23 qrs wrote:
On April 09 2003 07:37 Commander{+} wrote:
IMO WOT goes downhill after book 6. 4-6 are the best ones though. 8 just sucks, and 7 is ok.

Spot on.


disagree
1-4 were by far the best, 5-8 were continuously downhill, 9 was great, 10 and 11 were TERRIBLE, and now the story is moving so it's all better


I disagree. The Mat Cauthon plotline is so good that it makes up for all the other plotlines going downhill! Dont know how many times I have reread that plot....

DAMN straight.

God Matt is awesome. God if that isn't the best romance plot I have ever, ever read.
God if I don't read it to forget what Perrin and Rand are doing, the doofuses.
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
November 15 2010 20:15 GMT
#210
Oh crap! Book 12 is out already? Sanderson writes fucking fast.
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23404 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-15 22:28:12
November 15 2010 22:16 GMT
#211
Book 12 spoiler: just finished it.
+ Show Spoiler +

Sanderson, wow. He's is sooooooo good at writing, every chapter feels so fast paced, while Jordon made it seem so much slower, or maybe its the speed of the plot moving on. He also has an amazing way of describing fights, like especially the dream world stuff. The whole book was soooo good, and made me laugh out loud so many times. I hope to god thats a fake future, I fucking hate the seanchan man, they're like so gay, with their really ridiculously strict everything. The aiel are hilarious and awesome, wetlanders are like normal people so we don't mind them.
Mat is a badass. It's like "Well, we got this guy, has a cool spear, can beat the shit out of Aes Sedai (foxhead medallion), picks up women even if they're an empress, tactical genius general you know what, this mofo needs an eyepatch. That'll complete the image. I also LOVE how perrin and egwene's happened to meet together and fuck up mesanna's plans, and egwenes like sorry perrin ima put you down but he's like no bitch you're not even close to my level here i'm going to chase after slayer now kthxbye.
Nynaeve figured out how to heal madness, i love Nynaeve.
Characters I like: (in terms of personality whatever, they're all really well designed/writted
Mat
Min
Elayne
Faile
Bain and Chiad + Gaul LOL
Nynaeve
Morgase, the tea thing was so funny but morgase is cool anyway
Thom
Siuan Sanche
Tam Al'Thor

Middleground:
Tuon
Lan
Rand
Most of the forsaken
Egwene
Galad


Don't like:
Graendal
Perrin
Aviendha
Gawayn

Don't know why I put it out there, wonder if the people agree with me the on character likes/dislikes though.
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 00:42:11
November 16 2010 00:40 GMT
#212
Ya Sanderson has definately brought some fresh air into the series considering 7-11 became rather tedious. I would have read it even if Jordan had the time to finish Memory of Light just because I want to know how this shit ends.

The Epilogue and last few chapters got me so pumped for Memory of Light.
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
November 16 2010 01:00 GMT
#213
the only reason i read WoT at all is because of Mat Cauthon. literally he is the ONLY interesting character. the rest of the series was so bad i had to skip a lot of it.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
Kakera
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States419 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 01:04:29
November 16 2010 01:01 GMT
#214
On November 15 2010 10:06 Minzy wrote:
So just finished the book, i have to say the last 200 or so pages felt pretty rushed, there were heaps of jump's in time and developements based on assumptions, im not going to say i hated it, but i dont think this is how the book should have progressed, i am aware that they cant physically make the book bigger, nor do they want to release more then 3 books, but it just doesnt feel like this is how it should be.

They need to just have one GIGANTIC TOME like 100000 pages and end it. Can you really believe that psychopathic genius Robert Jordan intended for it to end already?

@shaperofdreams: Get out. nao! Though Mat Cauthon's storyline is pretty epic, Rand be rolling with bitches? Wot Rong Wit Dat yo.

@kevin: Because Jordan had it all finished. Just needed Sanderson to put his name to it ??? profit. I can't believe the shadiness of choosing Sanderson. Jordan's editor or something is married to the guy. She has sole decision on who to pass it onto and she picks her husband???profit. Lame as hell.
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
November 16 2010 01:01 GMT
#215
On November 10 2010 10:55 lagmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 10:31 Headlines wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I was so heart-broken after I read Aviendha's visions from walking through the ter'angreal. I've always been a quiet fan of the Seanchan, but after reading about their complete takeover of the westlands and the destruction of the Aiel by their hands... I was disgusted. To the pit of doom with the Seanchan! The story in TGS should have been Rand balefires the Seanchan and then remorses over it after he ascends to Jesushood. F***!!!!!!!!



+ Show Spoiler +
You shouldn't be mad at the Seanchan. You could see from her visions that the Aiel started the war. They didn't even have a good reason to start it. The Aiel justified their war against the Seanchan because they (the Aiel) were born to fight and to die. It's the mindset and the culture they live in that is to blame.

I'm pretty sure Aviendha will convince Rand to do something monumental to change the Aiel's future. The question is what. I'm also curious as to how Rand/Mat will make peace with the Seanchan. Do you just walk up to Tuon/Fortuna and say "Hey, did you know you can channel the same as any damane? How about we focus on the big bad monsters who want to eat us all instead of each other? That will be an interesting encounter.


+ Show Spoiler +
I'm willing to bet that someone (Avienda? Loial?) will find the Song after (or at) Tarmon Gai'don. That would bring beautiful closure to so many disparate parts of the story's history, and after the Last Battle there be a movement to return to the Way of the Leaf. Obviously Aviendha's visions suggest this does not happen, or at the very least that the Aiel never embrace the Way again, but why would Jordan have both carefully set up the backstory of the Da'shain Aiel and shroud the Song in so much mystery only to reveal the whole thing via Rand at Alcair Dal, but never have the Song matter...
Thermia
Profile Joined August 2010
United States866 Posts
November 16 2010 01:19 GMT
#216
On November 16 2010 07:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Book 12 spoiler: just finished it.
+ Show Spoiler +

Sanderson, wow. He's is sooooooo good at writing, every chapter feels so fast paced, while Jordon made it seem so much slower, or maybe its the speed of the plot moving on. He also has an amazing way of describing fights, like especially the dream world stuff. The whole book was soooo good, and made me laugh out loud so many times. I hope to god thats a fake future, I fucking hate the seanchan man, they're like so gay, with their really ridiculously strict everything. The aiel are hilarious and awesome, wetlanders are like normal people so we don't mind them.
Mat is a badass. It's like "Well, we got this guy, has a cool spear, can beat the shit out of Aes Sedai (foxhead medallion), picks up women even if they're an empress, tactical genius general you know what, this mofo needs an eyepatch. That'll complete the image. I also LOVE how perrin and egwene's happened to meet together and fuck up mesanna's plans, and egwenes like sorry perrin ima put you down but he's like no bitch you're not even close to my level here i'm going to chase after slayer now kthxbye.
Nynaeve figured out how to heal madness, i love Nynaeve.
Characters I like: (in terms of personality whatever, they're all really well designed/writted
Mat
Min
Elayne
Faile
Bain and Chiad + Gaul LOL
Nynaeve
Morgase, the tea thing was so funny but morgase is cool anyway
Thom
Siuan Sanche
Tam Al'Thor

Middleground:
Tuon
Lan
Rand
Most of the forsaken
Egwene
Galad


Don't like:
Graendal
Perrin
Aviendha
Gawayn

Don't know why I put it out there, wonder if the people agree with me the on character likes/dislikes though.


I tend to think that the faster pacing is a result of many of the big plotlines we've been waiting for so long finally being resolved. Additionally, Sanderson's writing style (in my opinion) lends itself more to action than a lot of Jordan's more descriptive yet slower writing.

As far as general badass moments go, these were my favorites -
+ Show Spoiler +
- Tower Of Ghenjei (sp?) was amazing all the way throughout, Mat is a badass and Moiraine is finally back!
- Perrin's duels with Slayer were very well written and I could picture them perfectly as I was reading
- Perrin's encounter with Egwene in TAR, fucking owned.
- Ituralde's defense of Maradon; he seems like the best general out of the Great Captains to me, though we haven't really seen the others do too much yet.
- Rand's destruction of the Shadowspawn army; although the battle part was cool, I thought the reactions and reasoning to it were even more interesting.



As for your character tier list, I agree for the most part with a few exceptions:

+ Show Spoiler +
- Perrin moved from low to top tier for me this book; he finally stopped being a whiny bitch and took control of his situation in an awesome way.
- Gawyn moved from low to mid tier this book: he gave Egwene the finger after she chewed him out for saving her and then came back and sacrificed himself for her after her trap for the assassins failed without even knowing if she was still alive, and got over his whole RAND KILLED MY MOMMY IMA KILL HIM thing.
- Egwene is definitely one of the more annoying characters in my opinion; she's so uppity and yet ignorant (lol @ Perrin and Gawyn showing her up). Fortunately, I'm pretty sure Rand is using her as an unwitting pawn for him by gathering up the nations.
- Elayne is low-mid tier, mostly for the same reasons as Egwene
- Aviendha as a character is... decent. Maybe it's her Aiel views that are slightly at odds with most characters that make her a bit odd. I liked the future scenes from Rhuidean though, they were extremely interesting.

Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling. IGN: Mierin
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 01:25:02
November 16 2010 01:20 GMT
#217
I like Sanderson's plot style. Very fast, action-packed, straight to the point.

However, I HATE what he has done with the characters. They just feel like cheap, shallow versions of their original selves. Like the interaction with Berelain and Galad...god it just felt so ridiculously shallow and transparent. And that's just one small example that's fresh in my mind...Robert Jordan had a way of subtly working in character quirks and tendencies without hitting you in the face with a corny ass hammer. Sanderson's characterization cannot hold a candle to Jordan's.

I do love how fast he is advancing the plot though without 500 pages of nothingness happening in between.

Also next time you read (or re-read) take note of the word "tempest." It's Sanderson's favourite word in the world. It will pop up at least once per chapter, I promise you.
wat
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
November 16 2010 01:34 GMT
#218
On November 16 2010 10:01 Kakera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2010 10:06 Minzy wrote:
So just finished the book, i have to say the last 200 or so pages felt pretty rushed, there were heaps of jump's in time and developements based on assumptions, im not going to say i hated it, but i dont think this is how the book should have progressed, i am aware that they cant physically make the book bigger, nor do they want to release more then 3 books, but it just doesnt feel like this is how it should be.

They need to just have one GIGANTIC TOME like 100000 pages and end it. Can you really believe that psychopathic genius Robert Jordan intended for it to end already?

@shaperofdreams: Get out. nao! Though Mat Cauthon's storyline is pretty epic, Rand be rolling with bitches? Wot Rong Wit Dat yo.

@kevin: Because Jordan had it all finished. Just needed Sanderson to put his name to it ??? profit. I can't believe the shadiness of choosing Sanderson. Jordan's editor or something is married to the guy. She has sole decision on who to pass it onto and she picks her husband???profit. Lame as hell.


What? Robert Jordan's editor was Robert Jordan's wife.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
November 16 2010 01:57 GMT
#219
On November 16 2010 10:01 Kakera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2010 10:06 Minzy wrote:
So just finished the book, i have to say the last 200 or so pages felt pretty rushed, there were heaps of jump's in time and developements based on assumptions, im not going to say i hated it, but i dont think this is how the book should have progressed, i am aware that they cant physically make the book bigger, nor do they want to release more then 3 books, but it just doesnt feel like this is how it should be.

They need to just have one GIGANTIC TOME like 100000 pages and end it. Can you really believe that psychopathic genius Robert Jordan intended for it to end already?

@shaperofdreams: Get out. nao! Though Mat Cauthon's storyline is pretty epic, Rand be rolling with bitches? Wot Rong Wit Dat yo.

@kevin: Because Jordan had it all finished. Just needed Sanderson to put his name to it ??? profit. I can't believe the shadiness of choosing Sanderson. Jordan's editor or something is married to the guy. She has sole decision on who to pass it onto and she picks her husband???profit. Lame as hell.


You're an idiot. Jordan didn't have it finished at all. All he had was notes and Brandon had to come in and write it. The editor was Robert Jordan's wife, and she chose Sanderson because she was a fan of his writing style. I hate people who spout random bullshit to look hard on the internet, especially when that shit is bltantly false and discredits a very respectful author.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Bair
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
November 16 2010 02:00 GMT
#220
+ Show Spoiler +

So I finished it, and I have to say I am pretty impressed with most of it.

For starters, while I really do like Perrin as a character, until about...the forging of his Hammer I felt that he was pretty underwhelming. Then once he got his hands like that he started being pretty badass. Truly though, the Faile/Perrin bit was a breath of fresh air in the romance section of the book compared to Egwene/Nynaeve/Eylane (I actually hate the sections for these characters entirely). Matt's is over, so I cannot say much there...and Rand really just had 3 chicks fall in love with him without too much in the way of development).

Matt's section on the other hand...loved it. He has always been one of my favorites.

Rand, I read this without rereading the other books (or rather, I reread up until Crossroads of Twilight, and did not have time for the last few books). However, I really like him as a character. I always liked the interaction between him and Cadsuane as well.

But the most important thing is that I like that they are finally doing something about the black tower. I mean honestly...Elaida's fortelling about the Black Tower was what...3-4 books ago? It is nice to show that there is some development going on regarding it, even if it is just a hint of what will be going on in the last book.

Two minor (or major?) questions though.

1.) Someone mentioned that Asmodean's killer was revealed in the glossary. I do not have access to my book right now. Who was it?

2.) And has it ever been clearly stated that Taim is Damodred (or was it Demandred >.>)? I know that Taim is never spoken of without mentioning that half smile...
In Roaches I Rust.
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