|
On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it.
Most places here to not allow you to return opened software.
|
On October 15 2011 04:24 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:21 Soleron wrote:
Take it to court. The ToS would probably be ruled unreasonable and hence not a legally binding contract. This happens all the time with this kind of thing.
No they can't deprive you of things you actually bought.
Well dunno about european courts, but wouldn't it be more expensive for him to take it to court. And besides his account may only be temp suspended
Threaten to. I've got many companies to act by doing so. Also it could be a small claims court as a civil case, if you have those in the US.
|
On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software.
Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box.
EDIT: Yes, I am right. It says it on the back of the box.
http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png
|
On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box.
So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back.
|
On October 15 2011 04:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:21 Soleron wrote:
Take it to court. The ToS would probably be ruled unreasonable and hence not a legally binding contract. This happens all the time with this kind of thing.
No they can't deprive you of things you actually bought.
If it's unreasonable then why did he agree to it? I hope you never try to become a lawyer. You scare me.
I have to disagree with you, companies always tend to put everything they can into ToS and they HOPE those terms stand up in court, there is quite a bit of legislation on this in the UK at least, i highly doubt DK is going to be very much different. , Sometimes those terms do apply sometimes they dont., Theres legislation protecting consumers because people dont read all of that and the government knows this, as do the courts, Anyway you can always sue,and cases of such low value dont cost much to get done, Litigation is far more accessable than people would have you believe.
|
On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin.
And dont act silly as if steam doesnt track their key codes to a specific country or something of the like.
|
On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin.
Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point.
|
On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point.
It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use.
http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png
|
Can we agree, that you buy the game off that detail seller? It's an accepted detail seller. Steam accepts CDON.com business. I'm judging this from the big "BUY" button there is, and the fact none sees that webshop as a third party store.
Or do you BUY the rights to LEND the game? And where does that take us?
Because with their ToS it smells like fake marketing then.
|
On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
Another thing is (Germany only afaik^^) that the EULA/TOS are invalid, because people only learn about it (and see it) _after_ their purchase, which is illegal here.
Do you have a source for that? Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png
That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell.
|
Actualy the fun part about this is that you CAN buy cd-keys from third party, however they have to have a license.. and since having of the banner of a "licensed seller" on website isnt matter of having license you can get tricked... I dont think anything good will come out of contacting support of steam i have experiences with them myself and they just dont care. Its a big company and one little guy doesnt mean anything to them.. Thats just how world is these days 
|
Netherlands19141 Posts
I just wrote my master thesis on this EULA/ToU crap. Long story short, in the EU this wouldn't fly, in the US it will.
The ignorance on software user licensing even in a gaming community is painful. Time to wite a series of blogs about it when I have time.
edit: I'm absolutely amazed what kind of stuff passes as 'ok' with US judges and the Supreme Court in the department of boiler plate agreement terms and consumer protection especially. Big business owns your country.
|
On October 15 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
[quote]
Do you have a source for that?
Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell.
But you are aware, at the time of the purchase, that if you want to use the game for anything OTHER than a paper weight or ornament in your room, that you will have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use.
|
On October 15 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:48 Terranigma wrote:
[quote]
Do you have a source for that?
Also, I'm not sure that'd count with Steam since you don't "buy" Steam. You install it free of charge, accept the TOS and are then free to decide whether you wanna buy the actual games. Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell.
There is such a thing as being an informed consumer and doing research on what you want/are going to buy before actually buying it.
|
On October 15 2011 05:03 Chahlz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:50 Treemonkeys wrote:
[quote]
Actually there are several retail games that force you to use steam, so you can be stuck with a paid for product before reading or agreeing to anything. You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell. There is such a thing as being an informed consumer and doing research on what you want/are going to buy before actually buying it.
But it isn't a requirement.
|
If you are truly worried about the security of your own account, contact steam and have them remove the games that came from the keys you bought from "questionable sources". When the whole Dirt3 leak thing happened a lot of people took that route and I think their accounts were fine afterward.
|
On October 15 2011 05:05 Roeder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:03 Chahlz wrote:On October 15 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:51 RoosterSamurai wrote:
[quote]
You can always return it. Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell. There is such a thing as being an informed consumer and doing research on what you want/are going to buy before actually buying it. But it isn't a requirement.
Apparently it is, as you and your friend have just had the misfortune of discovering the hard way.
|
This is why I do not buy any good game on steam. Having access to these games only through steam where they can close your account anytime is not worth it.
|
On October 15 2011 05:06 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:05 Roeder wrote:On October 15 2011 05:03 Chahlz wrote:On October 15 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:56 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:55 Marcus420 wrote:On October 15 2011 04:53 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 RoosterSamurai wrote:On October 15 2011 04:52 Treemonkeys wrote:
[quote]
Most places here to not allow you to return opened software. Then maybe try reading the packaging? I do believe games (L4D for instance) say STEAM on the back of the box. So shoppers should be expected to know the implications of the Steam icon on the back of the box. Certainly there is no TOS on the back. You have to install steam before installing the game. Just sayin. Still opened, paid for, and un-returnable at that point. It says it on the back of the box. In a big white box that says NOTICE, and proceeds to explain that you have to install steam and agree to it's terms of use. http://www.vgboxart.com/viewfullbox.php?boxid=24673&boxloc=/boxes/PC/24673_left_4_dead-v2-orig.png That's fine man, you still aren't agreeing to anything at the point of sell. There is such a thing as being an informed consumer and doing research on what you want/are going to buy before actually buying it. But it isn't a requirement. Apparently it is, as you and your friend have just had the misfortune of discovering the hard way.
It was more concerning the cover and lack of information pre-purchase.
|
On October 15 2011 04:02 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 03:57 Roeder wrote:A friend of mine has had Steam account suspended/banned for buying CD-keys from an unauthorized source (Steam wrote), and has the last couple of days been unable to log onto Steam whatsoever. The source for CD-keys was this site http://www.gamekeysbuy.com/First, is it common knowledge to know that 3rd party sellers was illegal? It surely surprised me in a bad way, that he got his account suspended. What I fear is, that my account is worth ~$1000 and I've bought a few games from similar sites. Second, if this is illegal - is Steam allowed to completely lock down an account, which still contains 100% 'legally' bought games bought from the Steam store? Basically, as it seems right now, they're allowed to legally take away any game you've legally bought through Steam just because of one game being bought from a doubtful source? Opinions, experiences and solutions - please share. 3rd party sellers are illegal yes.Yes, they can close access to whatever they want. Think if you steal X game but pay for Y they still need to make up for the stolen game. If you can't deal with the losses don't steal the games.
All 3rd party sellers aren't illegal, haven't you ever bought a steamworks game before in a shop? It's the same thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
