EPTGender disparity in E-sports - Page 16
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:26 IzieBoy wrote: i'm just going to buy a Day9 fan shirt and then wear that a lot when I'm with my chick friends. I'm going to work out more too so it stands out. Meh, just eat healthy and u'll be fine. I like the Day9 shirt idea though. Keep spreading the word. | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
Isnt having fun with Starcraft, spending time playing vs friends, having the inside backdoor joke, wacthing a gsl with a beer and chilllin on the TL threads - really what it is all about? i missed the memo with the lets name and shame all the sc chicks... =P people what have you become... <3 | ||
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
I.Don't.Care. Simple, really. I believe it was Idra that said that this was a strategy game - not a dating show(or something along those lines). I truly couldn't care less if Incontrol looked like Lindsey Sporrer or rather like Bruce Wayne(though we all know he's much cooler then either of them). I don't care for it because in order to become his fan, first and foremost deciding factor - is the way he plays. If there were an incredibly good sc2 female player out-there, competing in tournaments, she'll have fans. Until then we can just stop talking about - if women want to play, then let them play. If they don't, then don't. I see no reason to try and force this issue with special events and threads on TL. I see no point in trying to get more women to play sc, just for the sake of having more women playing sc. | ||
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vetinari
Australia602 Posts
On July 16 2011 05:55 Punscho wrote: So some people here actually think women should stick with and have sex with the their husbands because it's their duty, not out of love? The men should provide for their family to make their lives stable and safe, but why can't this be the duty of both the father and mother of the family (or the father/father or mother/mother or whatever family you have)? In your world, if the woman does not want to live with the man anymore (for whatever reason), she has no job or no education to create income so she _cannot_ leave because that would be hurtful for her children and herself. She is trapped by the social construct. I don't think that is fair and I am quite happy that the society I live in have left those ideals behind. Feminism, at the core, is about women having the freedom of that choice. But this thread has not surprisingly derailed a while ago. Yes, women have the duty to maintain the integrity of their families and to fulfil the needs of their family members, at the expense of their personal happiness, if necessary. Men have the same duty. I cannot condone women tearing apart families, harming her own children by denying them a father, for the sake of an infatuation. "for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse; in sickness and in health, as long as we shall live" Any society that regards marital vows as empty platitudes is morally bankrupt. | ||
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Magenta
Sweden113 Posts
There are several reasons why girls dont play videogames. One is that it is often frowned at when a girl plays, like she should have better things to do. Another is that wherever you go as a female games, alot of guys will treat you in i aweful way. I have been called so manny sexist things, people have ignored me and shut me out just cus im a girl, and that kind of attitude turns girls of and evetually we stay away from gaming communitys. Nowdays i play mostly with my only with my girlfirends. In sweden we have Team Geek Girl, a group for girls that wanna play StarCraft but dont know where to start och just have been treated badly when they tried to play multiplayer. I dont mean there have been trolls, but people how just seems to disslike girl gamers. Next thing is that the few girls that do get attention are usually very pretty but dont always know that much about games. That feeds the idea that girls dont play videogames, they just have to be pretty. Its is for an example very sad that Kellymilkies did those fotoshoots, because now she just another girl that proves that girls just have to look good, not be good at what they do. Im not saying that Kelly is bad, just that she gets more attention from her fotos than her shoutcasting. alos, mind you guys of TL, you can bee mighty sexist sometimes, saying this and that about "how girls are and are not". that does indeed turn girls away. however the biggest reason is that alot of gamedesign turn girls of. Im not saying make pink games. Just avoid gamedesign that will put girls of. Example, in the campain of Starcraft2. There are three major rolls for women. two who has some sort of realtion to the male lead. Why do women have to be justified by having a loverelation to a male? if blizzard where to feature a woman who was as much of a troll as Tychus, gamergirls would love it. Alow female characters to be more that just pretty, cus that does not give of much emotion. Girls wanna have big guns, kill zombies and be gritty, funny and ugly. That would make the female characters belivable. Today women in games are mostly there to be pretty. i would love to she female spacemarines for and example. (not damn medics!) I did and interview with Sam Didier, the lead art designer of StarCraft at the releaseparty of Starcraft2 and i asked him why there where so few female characters in the game. He answered that; We dont want to make females just cus they are females, the have to have a purpose. he pretty much put his finger on their problem. Women in games have to have a purpose for beeing women, whilst men just are the norm. | ||
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Magenta
Sweden113 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 16 2011 23:43 Magenta wrote: I have not read all comments here so bear with me if someone already made my point! There are several reasons why girls dont play videogames. One is that it is often frowned at when a girl plays, like she should have better things to do. Another is that wherever you go as a female games, alot of guys will treat you in i aweful way. I have been called so manny sexist things, people have ignored me and shut me out just cus im a girl, and that kind of attitude turns girls of and evetually we stay away from gaming communitys. Nowdays i play mostly with my only with my girlfirends. In sweden we have Team Geek Girl, a group for girls that wanna play StarCraft but dont know where to start och just have been treated badly when they tried to play multiplayer. I dont mean there have been trolls, but people how just seems to disslike girl gamers. Next thing is that the few girls that do get attention are usually very pretty but dont always know that much about games. That feeds the idea that girls dont play videogames, they just have to be pretty. Its is for an example very sad that Kellymilkies did those fotoshoots, because now she just another girl that proves that girls just have to look good, not be good at what they do. Im not saying that Kelly is bad, just that she gets more attention from her fotos than her shoutcasting. alos, mind you guys of TL, you can bee mighty sexist sometimes, saying this and that about "how girls are and are not". that does indeed turn girls away. however the biggest reason is that alot of gamedesign turn girls of. Im not saying make pink games. Just avoid gamedesign that will put girls of. Example, in the campain of Starcraft2. There are three major rolls for women. two who has some sort of realtion to the male lead. Why do women have to be justified by having a loverelation to a male? if blizzard where to feature a woman who was as much of a troll as Tychus, gamergirls would love it. Alow female characters to be more that just pretty, cus that does not give of much emotion. Girls wanna have big guns, kill zombies and be gritty, funny and ugly. That would make the female characters belivable. Today women in games are mostly there to be pretty. i would love to she female spacemarines for and example. (not damn medics!) I did and interview with Sam Didier, the lead art designer of StarCraft at the releaseparty of Starcraft2 and i asked him why there where so few female characters in the game. He answered that; We dont want to make females just cus they are females, the have to have a purpose. he pretty much put his finger on their problem. Women in games have to have a purpose for beeing women, whilst men just are the norm. You are right. It is called The Smurfette Principle Starcraft is pretty much space smurf wars in that regard. But I disagree that Kellies shoot was a mistake. Why should she have a responsibility for fighting sexism? Take what you can and don't give anything back, she just maximizes her odds within the rules like any good gamer should. And those rules are everyone's own rules. | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
Does it really matter what gender the characters are in a story? i don't care that lara croft is female, and all her male companions are blithering idiots, it's just standard western storytelling at it's cheesiest. And that's what game storyline are, cheese clichés because games are about game play, and all the good story writers are being paid more money for writing films and books. Of course men are the norm in a military sci-fi game ;o statistically men outweight women in military roles by an absurd ratio. Shame to hear you say you get treated badly by everyone and now can only play with a select few people, i've only seen evidence to the contrary within starcraft.. I guess maybe if you go into a chat channel with the name FEMALEGAMURRRR and type "hey guys xD i am such a nerd lol any1 want to help me??" it would give a negative reaction.. but i presume you're not being as ridiculous as that? 0_o Anyway good luck to you! @ fenrax This trope can also be justified by its accuracy in certain contexts. It is realistic for armies, police forces, adventuring parties, and similar groups to be predominantly male. For the most part, though, the main theory behind this trope is that Most Writers Are Male. So males write about things from a male perspective?? hmmm.. something sexist going on there! | ||
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Elbonbunny
Ireland60 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:08 Eleaven wrote: @ fenrax This trope can also be justified by its accuracy in certain contexts. It is realistic for armies, police forces, adventuring parties, and similar groups to be predominantly male. For the most part, though, the main theory behind this trope is that Most Writers Are Male. So males write about things from a male perspective?? hmmm.. something sexist going on there! idiot User was warned for this post | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
On July 15 2011 10:56 scur2d2 wrote: Theres womens only soccer, volleyball and basketball leagues because theres a difference in PHYSICAL attributes. There should be absolutely no segregation of womens leagues from male starcraft leagues. it makes no sense, because there is no physicality involved in video games. Yeah, this guy's nailed it. The only difference between men and women is how fast they can run and how much they can bench press. | ||
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Magenta
Sweden113 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:08 Eleaven wrote: :S Does it really matter what gender the characters are in a story? i don't care that lara croft is female, and all her male companions are blithering idiots, it's just standard western storytelling at it's cheesiest. And that's what game storyline are, cheese clichés because games are about game play, and all the good story writers are being paid more money for writing films and books. Of course men are the norm in a military sci-fi game ;o statistically men outweight women in military roles by an absurd ratio. Shame to hear you say you get treated badly by everyone and now can only play with a select few people, i've only seen evidence to the contrary within starcraft.. I guess maybe if you go into a chat channel with the name FEMALEGAMURRRR and type "hey guys xD i am such a nerd lol any1 want to help me??" it would give a negative reaction.. but i presume you're not being as ridiculous as that? 0_o Anyway good luck to you! yes it matters alot what the norms are. Maybe as a guy you dont feel that as much since there are often more guys. My point was also that they was of portraiting women are also problematic, since they are very onesided and their greates feature is not their personality or interesting history, but looks. Sure there are more males in the military. And more aliens. wait. no, no aliens. So that not really a valid point. haha no i dont, im neither 12 nor ignorant ^^ And not everyone there are obviously a lot of nice guys out there, but quite a few very loud rude ones as well. | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
Nice rebuttal? I took that quote from the very argument you linked. Do you have a problem with the facts in your own citation? Maybe you should more carefully groom your articles to get your point across in an even more biased sense. Why am I an idiot for using your very own reference to justify something that is perfectly plain to everyone other than you? | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:08 Fenrax wrote: But I disagree that Kellies shoot was a mistake. Why should she have a responsibility for fighting sexism? Take what you can and don't give anything back, she just maximizes her odds within the rules like any good gamer should. And those rules are everyone's own rules. Isn't TL and everything we do here around building a starcraft community? I know I'd be pissed if Day[9] suddenly "took what he could and didn't give anything back." He'd get way more shit than Kelly did if people thought he was being selfish all of a sudden. | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:18 Magenta wrote: yes it matters alot what the norms are. Maybe as a guy you dont feel that as much since there are often more guys. My point was also that they was of portraiting women are also problematic, since they are very onesided and their greates feature is not their personality or interesting history, but looks. Sure there are more males in the military. And more aliens. wait. no, no aliens. So that not really a valid point. haha no i dont, im neither 12 nor ignorant ^^ And not everyone there are obviously a lot of nice guys out there, but quite a few very loud rude ones as well. It's a twisted society however we look at it, false ideals of women in magazines for men to look at, Caricatures of women in my opinion, all the photo shopping etc. It's very bad. But at the same time female media outlets such as female targeted and staffed magazines are constantly reinforcing this principle of competing with other females based on looks. One glance at a female targeted magazine is enough to make a well adjusted person feel sick thanks to the messages they portray. "beauty is only skin deep" and yet 99% of the content of the magazine will be on skin creams, and then other 1% is "how to get more from your man in bed" Women get portrayed in a bad way in the general media that's for sure, but it's only given fuel to the fire when people like the NASL interviewer are granted so much fame just for how they look. That she was given a job is simply unjustifiable by any other measure. Relying on looks is a negative gender stereotype, but it hurts so much when it's women perpetuating it by taking off their clothes at the first sign of popularity and a couple of hundred dollars. also: Esports. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:21 lolsixtynine wrote: Isn't TL and everything we do here around building a starcraft community? I know I'd be pissed if Day[9] suddenly "took what he could and didn't give anything back." He'd get way more shit than Kelly did if people thought he was being selfish all of a sudden. Good reason to not be selfish, huh? Anyway, that doesn't matter because Day9 has an awesome no-selfish character and that's why he is so popular in the first place. But if he wants to do a naked shoot, why not? And isn't the best way for a streamer to help build up the SC community to recruit viewers for his or her SC stream? Im sure Kelly did good for the community with that shoot by being selfish in best Adam Smith tradition. I also wish for a world in which women are judged less by their appearance but that is not Kellies problem. | ||
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NagAfightinG
United Kingdom270 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:10 Elbonbunny wrote: Well maybe if day9 showed us a bit of skin, he would have more pages Day9 Swimwear Photoshoot plx | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On July 17 2011 00:49 StarStruck wrote: The reason why some people (including myself) are pissed off about Kelly is the fact she is shameless about using her sex to sell herself. How the heck you think she got where she is today? Other than schmoozing I don't know what she's really good at. She's always in your face and those kind of women are the most distracting and annoying. I like kelly because she's a breath of fresh air, does that make me a libido driven douche? | ||
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