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Active: 741 users

Is Morality Subjective or Objective?

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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ILIVEFORAIUR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States173 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-11 23:13:04
May 11 2011 06:31 GMT
#1
This is always a fun conversation!

Like the title asks, "Is morality subjective or objective?"

A couple definition for the nubs

Subjective morals: Each person determines his/her own morals based on their experiences. For example, a priest would believe it is moral to help others, a murder would think it is moral to end another's life. There is no set moral code which we all live by. We make this moral code through our experiences.

Objective morals: What is considered "right" and "wrong" are universal and will always be such. For example, it is moral for a priest to help others, it is immoral for a murder to end another's life.

Personally, I believe in subjective morals, based on my existential worldview. I believe that there is not inherent meaning to life, in that we go through our life and create our own meaning. This world view would be consistant with subjective morals.

I would love to know what the TLr's think

Cheers,
ILIVEFORAIUR

Per request,

Poll: Is Morality Subjective or Objective?

Subjective (392)
 
73%

Objective (146)
 
27%

538 total votes

Your vote: Is Morality Subjective or Objective?

(Vote): Subjective
(Vote): Objective

5 Gate Muta FTW!
Pleiades
Profile Joined June 2010
United States472 Posts
May 11 2011 06:35 GMT
#2
I have a moral nihilistic view of the world, so subjective for me. That does not mean I don't value anything at all. I just have my own set of values, and I try not to value it above others' values.
I love you sarge.... AHHHH
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
May 11 2011 06:35 GMT
#3
I think that gacey had awful morals and frankly wrong ones. I don't really care if his childhood was awful and "caused" his insanity. His morals were plain wrong.

Going with objective. Some people just have bad morals
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
ILIVEFORAIUR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States173 Posts
May 11 2011 06:37 GMT
#4
On May 11 2011 15:35 Jayme wrote:
I think that gacey had awful morals and frankly wrong ones. I don't really care if his childhood was awful and "caused" his insanity. His morals were plain wrong.

Going with objective. Some people just have bad morals


That is a good point. If you were in his position though, would you consider your actions to be immoral? Just want to make sure, because that is what the moral objectivist position commits one to.
5 Gate Muta FTW!
ILIVEFORAIUR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States173 Posts
May 11 2011 06:37 GMT
#5
On May 11 2011 15:35 Pleiades wrote:
I have a moral nihilistic view of the world, so subjective for me. That does not mean I don't value anything at all. I just have my own set of values, and I try not to value it above others' values.


Nihilism huh? I'm sorry to hear that...or wait...am I happy to hear that? Nihilism always confuses me
5 Gate Muta FTW!
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
May 11 2011 06:40 GMT
#6
In the end you make choices on your beliefs, so whether morals are objective or not is irrelevant.
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
Pleiades
Profile Joined June 2010
United States472 Posts
May 11 2011 06:40 GMT
#7
Well, I don't try to find the meaning of life. I make my own meaning of my life just to let you know where I'm headed.
I love you sarge.... AHHHH
HansMoleman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
May 11 2011 06:43 GMT
#8
99.9% Objective, .1% Subjective.
"Knowledge is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learn from schooling" -Albert Einstien
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
May 11 2011 06:44 GMT
#9
Morality has to be clearly defined before it can be categorized as objective or subjective. For example, codes of behavior that promote a successful society (one that survives and grows) can be objectively determined... are they 'morality'?

Unless we plan to say that 'morality' is subjective because we don't agree on a definition of 'morality'... but that would be, like, vacuously subjective.
My strategy is to fork people.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
May 11 2011 06:45 GMT
#10
On May 11 2011 15:35 Pleiades wrote:
I have a moral nihilistic view of the world, so subjective for me. That does not mean I don't value anything at all. I just have my own set of values, and I try not to value it above others' values.
100% agree. Morals are an illusion created by people to feel better to themselves. Same as god.

People are just afraid that without these pre-set unquestionable rules. The world would collapse. So they make stuff up.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
May 11 2011 06:45 GMT
#11
On May 11 2011 15:37 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2011 15:35 Jayme wrote:
I think that gacey had awful morals and frankly wrong ones. I don't really care if his childhood was awful and "caused" his insanity. His morals were plain wrong.

Going with objective. Some people just have bad morals


That is a good point. If you were in his position though, would you consider your actions to be immoral? Just want to make sure, because that is what the moral objectivist position commits one to.

I always viewed it in such a way that he acted that way through a "lack of knowledge" In the same way I don't ask my English teacher for lessons on Global climate change I wouldn't look at Gacey to be the model for human morals because he didn't know a damn thing about it.

So knowing what I know yes I would consider them immoral. In his position? I dont think anyone could figure that guy out.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-11 07:01:48
May 11 2011 06:47 GMT
#12
On May 11 2011 15:37 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2011 15:35 Jayme wrote:
I think that gacey had awful morals and frankly wrong ones. I don't really care if his childhood was awful and "caused" his insanity. His morals were plain wrong.

Going with objective. Some people just have bad morals


That is a good point. If you were in his position though, would you consider your actions to be immoral? Just want to make sure, because that is what the moral objectivist position commits one to.


not true

just because someone doesn't consider their actions to be immoral doesn't mean they aren't immoral

that's what the moral objectivist position is

as for what I personally believe, who knows which is right. it's not really a question that can be answered with certainty, we can only speculate guess and argue
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
May 11 2011 06:52 GMT
#13
At the end of the day. Morals are not an absolute truth. They are a consequence of economy and politics. And change through history as the need for new morals arise.

A few centuries ago. Slavery was moral. Because there were economical-political reasons for it. As the economy changed, nowadays slavery is immoral. Likewise, nowadays assigning monopoly property laws to intellectual material is moral, because theres economic interest. As that economic interest is changing. In the future, copyright laws that forbid sharing of creative work will be immoral. Morals will always change to adjust to economics and politics.

Morals is just an illusion invented by men.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
phyren
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1067 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-11 07:00:18
May 11 2011 06:53 GMT
#14
Objective truths are alluring, but I'm not certain if it is even possible to prove the existence of any non-tautological objective truth much less enough to constitute a moral code. Perhaps there are some guiding principals that could be argued to be universal, but for the most part everything is subjective.

edit: Actually, I have thought about this a lot and feel that the real question becomes: if we accept that things are subjective, than it makes it seem as though we should have no morals or change our morals constantly to fit what is convenient at the moment. However, most any viable set of morals will have within it the principal that it is immoral to change your moral system (at least too often or too lightly). With this is mind, does the issue of subject vs object morals become moot, or perhaps does this mean we should be actively working to rid ourselves of that disinclination to change our morals?
jeeneeus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1168 Posts
May 11 2011 06:55 GMT
#15
Here's an interesting thing to think about. If morals are subjective, how is it that certain things that are considered moral or immoral have been universally reached by different groups of people who have never been in contact with each other? At the same time, if morals are objective, what is it that made some things wrong and some things right? Why did the universe decide that something is more moral than another thing? Some people say God decides it so, but there are reasons why that probably isn't true. I won't go into that though, unless someone actually wants to know.
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
May 11 2011 06:57 GMT
#16
On May 11 2011 15:37 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2011 15:35 Jayme wrote:
I think that gacey had awful morals and frankly wrong ones. I don't really care if his childhood was awful and "caused" his insanity. His morals were plain wrong.

Going with objective. Some people just have bad morals


That is a good point. If you were in his position though, would you consider your actions to be immoral? Just want to make sure, because that is what the moral objectivist position commits one to.


This makes absolutely no sense.
I cant stop lactating
ZessiM
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom232 Posts
May 11 2011 06:59 GMT
#17
Unless you believe in a God who handed these rules, it's surely impossible to believe in an objective morality? Morality is a product of your upbringing, life experiences, and social norms. Subjective.

Similar moralities crop up in completely different societies because those societies have the same basic aims i.e survival, prosperity, justice etc
barkles
Profile Joined May 2010
United States285 Posts
May 11 2011 07:00 GMT
#18
That this question even has to be asked is a strong argument for the subjective morals argument.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
May 11 2011 07:01 GMT
#19
On May 11 2011 15:55 jeeneeus wrote:
If morals are subjective, how is it that certain things that are considered moral or immoral have been universally reached by different groups of people who have never been in contact with each other?
You really cannot think of one single hypothesis for that? You need to work on your creativity

Different groups come to similar problems and finds similar solutions.... that's all.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
DrainX
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Sweden3187 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-11 07:06:23
May 11 2011 07:01 GMT
#20
An interesting somewhat related talk I saw a couple of days ago:


If you choose to link morality to suffering and well being then I think you can say that some societies are "better" than others. If we define Evil as a society that maximizes suffering and Good as a society on the other side of the spectrum then I would say that that is an objective way of viewing morality.

My largest complaint with saying that morality is completely subjective is that we then fall into the trap of Moral relativism where we would have to agree that any set of moral codes is no worse or better than any other. Who are we then to complain about other societies torturing their children etc?
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