EPTonly accusations yet, and if the media starts pointing fingers it doesn't mean much.
hopefully the un observers will be able to do their job while the warmongers are held at bay.
Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 65
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
only accusations yet, and if the media starts pointing fingers it doesn't mean much. hopefully the un observers will be able to do their job while the warmongers are held at bay. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On August 22 2013 03:27 imperator-xy wrote: Their are many wrong statements in that post. Let me explain. The claim about Hezbollah is right. However, the thing about Iranian Revolutionary Guards being in Syria is denied by officials. Syria's foreign minister said that no Iranian fighter is fighting on Syria's side. But still, I think there is nothing wrong with a legitimate government asking it's allies for support. It's common in a war. It is right that he is an Alawite and Iran is his biggest ally for ages now. But it is a total disgrace to say that he shits on all Sunnis. Until 2011, his right hand was a Sunni. Many government officials are Sunni and big parts of the army are Sunni (most officers are Alawite though). Actual Syrians confirmed to me that Syria was sectarian before the war. As a Sunni, you didn't have any handicaps when dealing with officials. Your source is not accepted by any officials. Actually, there would probably be a no-fly-zone already if there was any reliable proof about government forces using chemical weapons. UN inspector Del Ponte actually said it is more probable that rebels used chemical weapons. You cannot seriously think that this whole conflict is about a dictator. The USA has a history of pushing through it's agendas with force. CIA just confirmed that they made a coup d'etat in Iran in 1953. Everyone should think about this whole conflict and question everything. Would it be useful to destroy Iran's biggest ally? Would it be helpful to have a puppet regime in Syria, so that Saudi-Arabia/Qatar (USA's biggest allies in the region, coincidentally they are the countries who arm the rebels) could build a pipeline to Europe? I will also respond point by point for clarity: The claim about Hezbollah is right. However, the thing about Iranian Revolutionary Guards being in Syria is denied by officials. Syria's foreign minister said that no Iranian fighter is fighting on Syria's side. But still, I think there is nothing wrong with a legitimate government asking it's allies for support. It's common in a war. Syria's foreign minister or any officials of Syria are in my opinion not trustworthy. And it's funny how in this thread so many people tend to criticize western media "the tools of imperialism", and don't even doubt what Assad's regime spit out every day. I bet you were the same people who believed Gaddafi when he said Lybia was under attack by junkies. The main thing I was trying to point out was that Saying that ASSAD is under attack from "Muslim terrorists" is a stupidily simple statement, because Assad is actually using terrorist groups to defend itself. So it's a lot more complicated than that. It is right that he is an Alawite and Iran is his biggest ally for ages now. But it is a total disgrace to say that he shits on all Sunnis. Until 2011, his right hand was a Sunni. Many government officials are Sunni and big parts of the army are Sunni (most officers are Alawite though). Actual Syrians confirmed to me that Syria was sectarian before the war. As a Sunni, you didn't have any handicaps when dealing with officials. The situation has changed since 2011. The lower social layers were composed of a majority of Sunnites and They are the ones that starting the revolution (which was a eco-social one to begin with, before the massacres of innocent civilians walking in the streets started every friday). Nowadays Religion has it's importance, and there is really a war between Chiite/Alawite and Sunnites (the fire really started when foreigners started popping in ON BOTH SIDES). Your source is not accepted by any officials. Actually, there would probably be a no-fly-zone already if there was any reliable proof about government forces using chemical weapons. UN inspector Del Ponte actually said it is more probable that rebels used chemical weapons The article you linked to is 1 month prior to the article I linked. Not much value. Concerning the no fly zone, wait & see. Trust me, even if there would be more reliable evidence that a few journalists behind enemy lines, the west will do fuck all. You cannot seriously think that this whole conflict is about a dictator. The USA has a history of pushing through it's agendas with force. CIA just confirmed that they made a coup d'etat in Iran in 1953. Everyone should think about this whole conflict and question everything. Would it be useful to destroy Iran's biggest ally? Would it be helpful to have a puppet regime in Syria, so that Saudi-Arabia/Qatar (USA's biggest allies in the region, coincidentally they are the countries who arm the rebels) could build a pipeline to Europe? I think you overestimate the power of today's CIA. But anyways, let's assume that the CIA had the power to overthrow Syria. So what would be the motivation? - Destroy Iran's Biggest ally? What a joke, Syria is not a problem. Russia is a Problem. - A piepeline? Please send me a link of a viable source proving that Assad refused a pipeline on his territory before march 2011. And no crazy bloggers please. I'm not sure it has been very clear in my posts, where i spent more of my time trying to convince people that Assad is more of a problem for the Syrian people than for western countries, and that this "Assad was framed" story is just pure speculation from people who think "Loose change" was the fuckin' Bible and that everything is done behind the curtains by the nasty Us/Israel combo who pull the strings, but I don't believe anybody should (apart from the UN and the peacekeeping force) should intervene in Syria. I am not searching for anything that would justify a military invasion of any western country, Lybia and Iraq are excellent examples of why this is not a good solution. But still I can not accept what is going on in that country, and the how the population has been brutally repressed for the last 2 years. I am very sad to see that a lot of your people can, and support Assad in "his quest to protect the syrian people from the terrorists and the Western media war". It seems to me that you are only looking for an excuse to not give a fuck and dismiss the horros of the Assad regime by hiding behind a stupid conspiracy theory. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On August 22 2013 14:22 nunez wrote: only accusations yet, and if the media starts pointing fingers it doesn't mean much. hopefully the un observers will be able to do their job while the warmongers are held at bay. The observers were refused to visit the supposed bomb sites. Surprised?  | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2639 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:25 Douillos wrote: The observers were refused to visit the supposed bomb sites. Surprised? Wait. You call me out for conspiracy theories when I say that there are no good reasons for Assad using chemical weapons and then you say that the UN observers in the country are intentionally covering up weapons use? What? | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
then you say that the UN observers in the country are intentionally covering up weapons use? No he didn't OoWere refused. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2639 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:25 Douillos wrote: The observers were refused to visit the supposed bomb sites. Surprised? source? it would not be surprising, rather it would be aggravating. i am unable to parse your emoticon. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On August 22 2013 18:18 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Wait. You call me out for conspiracy theories when I say that there are no good reasons for Assad using chemical weapons and then you say that the UN observers in the country are intentionally covering up weapons use? What? I never said that, I said that they we're refused access to the sites. But it's pretty hard to see through all the info. The only official statement I have seen is a declaration of the security council saying that they "will ask to visit" not they have asked to visit. So yeah, as I thought as I've been continuously repeating these last few posts, UN/West countries will not do anything against Syria for now. I hope that if the allegations of chemical weapons are verified, something will be done to protect Syrian civilians, but through UN, not some lone justice country (remember Iraq -_- ) On August 22 2013 20:02 nunez wrote: source? it would not be surprising, rather it would be aggravating. i am unable to parse your emoticon. I heard it on the radio coming to work this morning, I ve looked around, and as I said above, the only official statement i got was a declaration of intent to visit... Still I would like to believe that if UN inspector were on the ground they would actually formulate a demand... It's all pretty unclear for now. | ||
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
i hope they make an effort to check up on the incident in Ghouta as well. there is a nice read over on cBRNE about it for those with some time on their hands. link + Show Spoiler [spoilered tinfoiler] + dubious fiction for tinfoilers: remember the hacker (JAsIrX) that posted emails that were supposedly downloaded from britam? one of them said this: Phil We've got a new offer. It's about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington. We'll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have. They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record. Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion? any mischief gone down in Libya lately involving missiles being relocated? never found a good debunk or even analysis on the supposed leak. got removed from r/worldnews on account on being bullshit though, including a post that had some analysis from a supposed sysadmin hinting at the mail being valid. i'm sure someone can provide me with a good debunk. | ||
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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Mafs
Canada458 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:23 Douillos wrote: I will also respond point by point for clarity: Syria's foreign minister or any officials of Syria are in my opinion not trustworthy. And it's funny how in this thread so many people tend to criticize western media "the tools of imperialism", and don't even doubt what Assad's regime spit out every day. I bet you were the same people who believed Gaddafi when he said Lybia was under attack by junkies. The main thing I was trying to point out was that Saying that ASSAD is under attack from "Muslim terrorists" is a stupidily simple statement, because Assad is actually using terrorist groups to defend itself. So it's a lot more complicated than that. The situation has changed since 2011. The lower social layers were composed of a majority of Sunnites and They are the ones that starting the revolution (which was a eco-social one to begin with, before the massacres of innocent civilians walking in the streets started every friday). Nowadays Religion has it's importance, and there is really a war between Chiite/Alawite and Sunnites (the fire really started when foreigners started popping in ON BOTH SIDES). The article you linked to is 1 month prior to the article I linked. Not much value. Concerning the no fly zone, wait & see. Trust me, even if there would be more reliable evidence that a few journalists behind enemy lines, the west will do fuck all. I think you overestimate the power of today's CIA. But anyways, let's assume that the CIA had the power to overthrow Syria. So what would be the motivation? - Destroy Iran's Biggest ally? What a joke, Syria is not a problem. Russia is a Problem. - A piepeline? Please send me a link of a viable source proving that Assad refused a pipeline on his territory before march 2011. And no crazy bloggers please. I'm not sure it has been very clear in my posts, where i spent more of my time trying to convince people that Assad is more of a problem for the Syrian people than for western countries, and that this "Assad was framed" story is just pure speculation from people who think "Loose change" was the fuckin' Bible and that everything is done behind the curtains by the nasty Us/Israel combo who pull the strings, but I don't believe anybody should (apart from the UN and the peacekeeping force) should intervene in Syria. I am not searching for anything that would justify a military invasion of any western country, Lybia and Iraq are excellent examples of why this is not a good solution. But still I can not accept what is going on in that country, and the how the population has been brutally repressed for the last 2 years. I am very sad to see that a lot of your people can, and support Assad in "his quest to protect the syrian people from the terrorists and the Western media war". It seems to me that you are only looking for an excuse to not give a fuck and dismiss the horros of the Assad regime by hiding behind a stupid conspiracy theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_22/News-of-massacre-in-Syria-published-one-day-before-the-massacre-happened-5549/ Russia and China are allied with Iran and Syria. I didn't believe it either when I watched a video about it about a year ago. It made a bunch of predictions I though were full of shit, then each of them came to pass as if it was a scripted event and every prediction was correct. I wouldn't be surprised if after Syria is taken over by rebels with military help from the UN they go after Iran with some bullshit "nuclear weapons" excuse. The US is just doing this to prevent it's economy from getting completely destroyed. | ||
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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[SuNdae]
Finland323 Posts
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sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
On August 23 2013 00:14 Mafs wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_22/News-of-massacre-in-Syria-published-one-day-before-the-massacre-happened-5549/ Russia and China are allied with Iran and Syria. I didn't believe it either when I watched a video about it about a year ago. It made a bunch of predictions I though were full of shit, then each of them came to pass as if it was a scripted event and every prediction was correct. I wouldn't be surprised if after Syria is taken over by rebels with military help from the UN they go after Iran with some bullshit "nuclear weapons" excuse. Yeah, cause like Voice of Russia isn't biased at all or anything. Might as well take everything that Fox News or Press TV posts up as fact while you're at it... On August 23 2013 00:14 Mafs wrote: The US is just doing this to prevent it's economy from getting completely destroyed. Ironically enough it's the *gasp* French and British this time around who are shouting for a call to arms in Syria instead of your beloved North American savages down south. Shocking isn't it? | ||
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
It's really sad how actually credible news sources are dismissed and the most ridiculous propaganda organs and just plain bullshitters get posted up as if we are supposed to believe them. It looks like it's impossible to get neutral information on whatever is actually going on. Everybody has an agenda and spins the bits and pieces to fit it. It's a smokescreen after smokescreen. Nope. That's just you thinking that knee-jerk total cynicism is useful, rather than actual discernment. If you really think it's impossible to get "neutral" information (impossible because information is not neutral, you mean information delivery) and that everybody has an agenda and is lying to you and that there is smokescreen after smokescreen, you're taking the easy way out, instead of examining, analyzing, and drawing conclusions. Western news coverage has been almost cringe-inducing in the way it bends over backwards to try to not sound like it is cheerleading for intervention "this couldn't be verified" "Western concerns about fundamentalists fighting Assad" etc. etc. only accusations yet, and if the media starts pointing fingers it doesn't mean much. hopefully the un observers will be able to do their job while the warmongers are held at bay the countries that resisted sending weapons to the rebels for over a year and so far have not fired one shot at assad soldiers (after 2+ years of war now between assad government and rebels) are the warmongers who need held at bay riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight thanks a lot george bush you created a generation of people who have replaced their brains with mindless slogans | ||
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oranget
Slovakia22 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On August 23 2013 01:55 oranget wrote: http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/ You're getting better at posting links to websites that look like they aren't full of bullshit, but then we see things like this: http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/08/22/sarajevo-1995-and-damascus-2013-the-use-of-mass-attack-deception-to-decide-wars/ Also this: Legal Counsel: Roy M. Cohn (1927-1986) Backup Paralegals: Hammer, Rude, Hussein, Nasty and Tong Also it's telling that not a single one of these activists or organizations are named, and only the stupid would believe that numbers like 70%, 20%, 10% could be credible if no polling was done. So clearly, WorldTribune is a credible source (hahahahahahaha) That e-mail is so ridiculously false it's actually very funny. It reads like some internet jockey trying to write a script. I mean really read this shit: Phil We’ve got a new offer. It’s about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington. We’ll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have. They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record. Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion? The Qataris SWEAR that Washington approves the deal man! They swear it! They want us to deploy Team White-Ra for some Speshul Taktiks. I don't think it's a good idea but if we secure those gold mineral patches well the sums are enormous! We will not talk in code or anything or even try to mask what the e-mail is really saying, because sinister military-industrial complex conspirators are so dumb that they would e-mail each other talking openly about their false flag conspiracies. I mean come on now. Really? Does absolutely no one use their brains anymore? These e-mails were "hacked" and released in the spring. This was already after limited CW use and Obama doing jack shit about it. Here we are again more CW use and what are France and the UK and Obama doing? Putting missiles on the warplanes? No, they're calling for an investigation. How many times does the military-industrial complex have to carry out false flag attacks before Western governments get with the program? I guess that e-mail wasn't quite accurate (other than being a total fabrication) in saying Washington approved, huh? | ||
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