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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
On August 21 2013 19:28 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 19:17 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 19:12 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 18:54 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 18:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 17:01 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are conspiracy theory touting loonies. Because, clearly, the enemies of Syria and Iran didn't use false flag operations, assasinations, coup d'etats and terrorism to achieve their goals, right? The situation is really fishy. I have serious doubts that Assad is behind this. He's not some irrational North Korean leader. Have you even seen what's been going on???? Not as irrational??? The guy is a fuckin barbarian, and probably didn't even blink when he asked the military police to kidnap, toture or the regular army to shoot civilians, while his spolied wife goes out to shop gucci all fuckin' day. Really guys, being suspicious of the info. we get through regular media is one thing, but you're being downright stupid here. Media are portraying it that way. The same media that lied about various American/Israeli operations or constantly misquoted Iran's president, and so on. I really doubt Assad is targeting actual civilians here. Foreign mercenary insurgents are not civilians, even if they're posing as such. And if anyone is a barbarian here, it's the terrorist rebels that eat corpse of their enemies... Hahaha You sound like Assad's Propaganda manager! Mind if I call you Goebels from now on? It'll suit your perfectly. Cut the crap man, stories of the political prisons of Assad's Regime have been around for years. Why the fuck did the revolution start in the first place? Please, just 'cause your learnt where Syria is a month ago, doesn't mean you should participate in discussions about the real world. And you sound like a useful idiot brainwashed by pro-American media. Revolution? What revolution? It's an insurgency carried out, for the most part, by non-Syrian mercenaries, and sponsored by the USA-Israel coalition, which wants to destabilize Syria in order to have an easier time invading Iran. And since there's no bottom-up revolution in the first place, I disregard its proclaimed motives.
I just read the whole last page and this guy is out to lunch with all his ideal's.
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Well, its true that a lot of people fighting against Asad are not Syrians. This war gathered all sorts people but mostly muslim fundamentalists from all around the world.
As to recent attack, if the news are confirmed its is really stupid move by Asad. And he is no fool, thats why people question his involvement.
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On August 21 2013 20:01 Silvanel wrote:
Well, its true that a lot of people fighting against Asad are not Syrians. This war gathered all sorts people but mostly muslim fundamentalists from all around the world.
As to recent attack, if the news are confirmed its is really stupid move by Asad. And he is no fool, thats why people question his involvement.
This is true. I've come across a couple of news in my region that muslim albanians and bosnians are fighting on the side of the rebels, and a couple of them are already dead.
I'm glad that Assad is winning, hope he kills every muslim fundamentalists thats gathered there from all sides of the world. Better to die there instead of killing christian children in my country for allah.
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On August 21 2013 19:08 cem61 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 18:59 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I'm with the suspicious crowd actually.
Assad has been making a lot of headway recently and wasn't the last "chemical attack" also really fishy?
Why the hell start now when your winning? It makes no sense, if you really want to kill a lot of people you have air superiority and cluster bombs.
He's a brute but he's not a stupid brute. But Russia will likely call the UN on it if they try to act. I dont know why you think Assad was winning.He lost an important airport in Aleppo 2 weeks ago.
Last time I saw a map he had taken Homs and cut of the rebel territories in two isolating the one inland and the "expert" on swedish tv basically said the rebels were fucked (in a lot of words trying to make it sound less pro assad).
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On August 21 2013 20:10 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 19:08 cem61 wrote:On August 21 2013 18:59 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I'm with the suspicious crowd actually.
Assad has been making a lot of headway recently and wasn't the last "chemical attack" also really fishy?
Why the hell start now when your winning? It makes no sense, if you really want to kill a lot of people you have air superiority and cluster bombs.
He's a brute but he's not a stupid brute. But Russia will likely call the UN on it if they try to act. I dont know why you think Assad was winning.He lost an important airport in Aleppo 2 weeks ago. Last time I saw a map he had taken Homs and cut of the rebel territories in two isolating the one inland and the "expert" on swedish tv basically said the rebels were fucked (in a lot of words trying to make it sound less pro assad).
Its like the same saying why the Usa used the atom bomb they were winning.
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On August 21 2013 20:31 cem61 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 20:10 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On August 21 2013 19:08 cem61 wrote:On August 21 2013 18:59 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I'm with the suspicious crowd actually.
Assad has been making a lot of headway recently and wasn't the last "chemical attack" also really fishy?
Why the hell start now when your winning? It makes no sense, if you really want to kill a lot of people you have air superiority and cluster bombs.
He's a brute but he's not a stupid brute. But Russia will likely call the UN on it if they try to act. I dont know why you think Assad was winning.He lost an important airport in Aleppo 2 weeks ago. Last time I saw a map he had taken Homs and cut of the rebel territories in two isolating the one inland and the "expert" on swedish tv basically said the rebels were fucked (in a lot of words trying to make it sound less pro assad). Its like the same saying why the Usa used the atom bomb they were winning.
No it's not. What the hell?
Chemical weapons are an ineffective weapon with dubious strategical use and even worse tactical uses and using them here in a conventional ground war would give very little to your war effort.
The a-bomb prevented what would probably been an incredible bloody invasion of an island.
A better analogy would be the firebombing of Dresden or the incredible atrocities on the eastern front during the Russian invasion as they were more or less barbaric acts that did very little to end the war.
But the fact is that Assad could (and probably will, or is already doing so) do that with conventional weaponry that doesn't have the risk of the UN/US fucking him up the ass while he's winning.
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On August 21 2013 19:28 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 19:17 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 19:12 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 18:54 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 18:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 17:01 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are conspiracy theory touting loonies. Because, clearly, the enemies of Syria and Iran didn't use false flag operations, assasinations, coup d'etats and terrorism to achieve their goals, right? The situation is really fishy. I have serious doubts that Assad is behind this. He's not some irrational North Korean leader. Have you even seen what's been going on???? Not as irrational??? The guy is a fuckin barbarian, and probably didn't even blink when he asked the military police to kidnap, toture or the regular army to shoot civilians, while his spolied wife goes out to shop gucci all fuckin' day. Really guys, being suspicious of the info. we get through regular media is one thing, but you're being downright stupid here. Media are portraying it that way. The same media that lied about various American/Israeli operations or constantly misquoted Iran's president, and so on. I really doubt Assad is targeting actual civilians here. Foreign mercenary insurgents are not civilians, even if they're posing as such. And if anyone is a barbarian here, it's the terrorist rebels that eat corpse of their enemies... Hahaha You sound like Assad's Propaganda manager! Mind if I call you Goebels from now on? It'll suit your perfectly. Cut the crap man, stories of the political prisons of Assad's Regime have been around for years. Why the fuck did the revolution start in the first place? Please, just 'cause your learnt where Syria is a month ago, doesn't mean you should participate in discussions about the real world. And you sound like a useful idiot brainwashed by pro-American media. Revolution? What revolution? It's an insurgency carried out, for the most part, by non-Syrian mercenaries, and sponsored by the USA-Israel coalition, which wants to destabilize Syria in order to have an easier time invading Iran. And since there's no bottom-up revolution in the first place, I disregard its proclaimed motives.
Wow, You really have no idea what has happened since march 2011, have you?This statement alone is enough to show that you have not been doing your homework, and you're just in this conversation to provoke.
I am aware and agree with the fact that several djihadist movements have joined the fight against Assad, and this is one of the reasons the west has decided not to help the rebels.
But please take into account the fact that Assad and his army are being helped by Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolution guards. These 2 groups are also linked to terrorism and fundamentalism.
In every single one of your statements (and that goes for a majority of the people who are this thread), you picture the whole thing as an order vs chaos battle, with "muslim terrorists" (I love how you guys use that expression and then call me brainwashed) against Assad who is just trying to keep the country together.
That is A joke.
Assad is defending his position as a Tyrant and does not give a fuck about the majority of the Syrian people,just like his father before him. He is an alaouite who shits on all Sunnites and is helped by the major Chiite country: Iran.
So this whole: "Omg Israel/USA funded set up to bout Assad" is a fuckin joke, it's ridiculous, and mainly because:
Assad has Russia and China with him, He does not give a flying fuck about what the UN or the US thinks.
Also and this time I'm going to bold it 'cause I can see that most you have not read this once:
The regular army has been using Chemical weapons since end of may 2013 (at the latest), before the tides were turned thanks to the Chiite backup from Iran. (Source in one of my previous posts).
I know that a lot of people would love to be in a incredible world with consipracies and incredible things going on behind the curtains. But this is just another inter-religious war between Sunnites and Chiites, and the only reason people should care in the west is because of the horrors that have been perpetrated by the Assad clan (and don't give me that shit about cannibalism in the rebellion, really it's just sleezy propaganda bullshit): he should be judged for crimes against humanity:
The articles here under will give you a bit of food for your mind.
HRW article
Amnesty international
And here's if you prefer numbers
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This thread is full of western haters who jump in whenever there is an opportunity to bash USA and defend Russia and Syria and Iran by praising their brave stance against 'Western Imperialism'.
It is also full of conspiracy theorists who take their news from Liveleak nutheads, painting their own image of the situation in Syria.
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On August 21 2013 19:12 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 18:54 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 18:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 17:01 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are conspiracy theory touting loonies. Because, clearly, the enemies of Syria and Iran didn't use false flag operations, assasinations, coup d'etats and terrorism to achieve their goals, right? The situation is really fishy. I have serious doubts that Assad is behind this. He's not some irrational North Korean leader. Have you even seen what's been going on???? Not as irrational??? The guy is a fuckin barbarian, and probably didn't even blink when he asked the military police to kidnap, toture or the regular army to shoot civilians, while his spolied wife goes out to shop gucci all fuckin' day. Really guys, being suspicious of the info. we get through regular media is one thing, but you're being downright stupid here. Media are portraying it that way. The same media that lied about various American/Israeli operations or constantly misquoted Iran's president, and so on. I really doubt Assad is targeting actual civilians here. Foreign mercenary insurgents are not civilians, even if they're posing as such. And if anyone is a barbarian here, it's the terrorist rebels that eat corpse of their enemies...
I thought it was commonly known that Assad brutally suppressed protests in his country which led to an uprising against him. Not just in terms of American or Israeli news sources (if you find them totally untrustworthy), but international news, which is why Europe and the rest of the world, with the exception of Russia and China agree that he should step down. Actually never mind that, if you recall the latest G7 talks Putin finally acknowledged that Assad should step down.
Of course maybe now there are all sorts of external groups involved, and maybe the Americans and Europeans are supplying arms. But the point is originally it was the Syrian people who were being massacred, and its primarily their revolution.
I mean it took what...two years for the US to do anything meaningful? Meanwhile thousands of Syrians were being killed, and this was way before there were any terrorist groups operating in the area. When the protests began, the Syrian people were the ones being bombed. There was no one else *to* bomb, unless you think it was all a conspiracy hatched by the US and Israel which is kind of crazy.
They are helping reluctantly if anything. And even with their limited help the rebels are still having a very difficult time fighting back against Assad. He's free to use his chemical weapons with virtually free reign. This does not sound like the makings of a secret American plot...you would think they would do more and that Syria would have been crippled sooner, like with Libya. But that's not happening at all.
I'd also like to hear about what media sources you deem more trustworthy than the major ones we listen to. If its "Russia Today" everyone will be depressed so please don't say that 
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On August 21 2013 18:51 Douillos wrote:
There is no other reason than Assad was loosing ground against the rebels and used all the weapons he had at his disposals, knowing that the international community would never have the balls to go up against Russia.
The SAA (Syrian Arab Army; government forces) is winning ground. They retook large parts of Latakia and Homs, which is one of the biggest Syrian cities is nearly fully liberated.
On August 21 2013 19:32 cem61 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 19:28 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 19:17 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 19:12 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 18:54 Douillos wrote:On August 21 2013 18:48 maybenexttime wrote:On August 21 2013 17:01 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are conspiracy theory touting loonies. Because, clearly, the enemies of Syria and Iran didn't use false flag operations, assasinations, coup d'etats and terrorism to achieve their goals, right? The situation is really fishy. I have serious doubts that Assad is behind this. He's not some irrational North Korean leader. Have you even seen what's been going on???? Not as irrational??? The guy is a fuckin barbarian, and probably didn't even blink when he asked the military police to kidnap, toture or the regular army to shoot civilians, while his spolied wife goes out to shop gucci all fuckin' day. Really guys, being suspicious of the info. we get through regular media is one thing, but you're being downright stupid here. Media are portraying it that way. The same media that lied about various American/Israeli operations or constantly misquoted Iran's president, and so on. I really doubt Assad is targeting actual civilians here. Foreign mercenary insurgents are not civilians, even if they're posing as such. And if anyone is a barbarian here, it's the terrorist rebels that eat corpse of their enemies... Hahaha You sound like Assad's Propaganda manager! Mind if I call you Goebels from now on? It'll suit your perfectly. Cut the crap man, stories of the political prisons of Assad's Regime have been around for years. Why the fuck did the revolution start in the first place? Please, just 'cause your learnt where Syria is a month ago, doesn't mean you should participate in discussions about the real world. And you sound like a useful idiot brainwashed by pro-American media. Revolution? What revolution? It's an insurgency carried out, for the most part, by non-Syrian mercenaries, and sponsored by the USA-Israel coalition, which wants to destabilize Syria in order to have an easier time invading Iran. And since there's no bottom-up revolution in the first place, I disregard its proclaimed motives. Thats so wrong a lot of turkish live reporters who was in syria are saying that there is no support from Usa and Europe or Israel.You are brainwashed having no idea still thinking the West is supporting the rebells thats just a lie,why else Usa didnt attack Usa syria or you think they need realy a reason to attack.
I don't mean to be rude, but since the big protests in Turkey everyone knows that Turkish news are as free as Chinese news. Heck, Turkey even has more journalists in prisons than China.
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On August 21 2013 21:43 Douillos wrote:Wow, You really have no idea what has happened since march 2011, have you?This statement alone is enough to show that you have not been doing your homework, and you're just in this conversation to provoke. I am aware and agree with the fact that several djihadist movements have joined the fight against Assad, and this is one of the reasons the west has decided not to help the rebels. But please take into account the fact that Assad and his army are being helped by Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolution guards. These 2 groups are also linked to terrorism and fundamentalism. In every single one of your statements (and that goes for a majority of the people who are this thread), you picture the whole thing as an order vs chaos battle, with "muslim terrorists" (I love how you guys use that expression and then call me brainwashed) against Assad who is just trying to keep the country together. That is A joke.Assad is defending his position as a Tyrant and does not give a fuck about the majority of the Syrian people,just like his father before him. He is an alaouite who shits on all Sunnites and is helped by the major Chiite country: Iran. So this whole: "Omg Israel/USA funded set up to bout Assad" is a fuckin joke, it's ridiculous, and mainly because: Assad has Russia and China with him, He does not give a flying fuck about what the UN or the US thinks.Also and this time I'm going to bold it 'cause I can see that most you have not read this once: The regular army has been using Chemical weapons since end of may 2013 (at the latest), before the tides were turned thanks to the Chiite backup from Iran. (Source in one of my previous posts). I know that a lot of people would love to be in a incredible world with consipracies and incredible things going on behind the curtains. But this is just another inter-religious war between Sunnites and Chiites, and the only reason people should care in the west is because of the horrors that have been perpetrated by the Assad clan (and don't give me that shit about cannibalism in the rebellion, really it's just sleezy propaganda bullshit): he should be judged for crimes against humanity: The articles here under will give you a bit of food for your mind. HRW articleAmnesty internationalAnd here's if you prefer numbers
Their are many wrong statements in that post. Let me explain.
But please take into account the fact that Assad and his army are being helped by Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolution guards. These 2 groups are also linked to terrorism and fundamentalism.
The claim about Hezbollah is right. However, the thing about Iranian Revolutionary Guards being in Syria is denied by officials. Syria's foreign minister said that no Iranian fighter is fighting on Syria's side.
But still, I think there is nothing wrong with a legitimate government asking it's allies for support. It's common in a war.
Assad is defending his position as a Tyrant and does not give a fuck about the majority of the Syrian people,just like his father before him. He is an alaouite who shits on all Sunnites and is helped by the major Chiite country: Iran.
It is right that he is an Alawite and Iran is his biggest ally for ages now.
But it is a total disgrace to say that he shits on all Sunnis. Until 2011, his right hand was a Sunni. Many government officials are Sunni and big parts of the army are Sunni (most officers are Alawite though).
Actual Syrians confirmed to me that Syria was sectarian before the war. As a Sunni, you didn't have any handicaps when dealing with officials.
The regular army has been using Chemical weapons since end of may 2013 (at the latest), before the tides were turned thanks to the Chiite backup from Iran. (Source in one of my previous posts).
Your source is not accepted by any officials.
Actually, there would probably be a no-fly-zone already if there was any reliable proof about government forces using chemical weapons.
UN inspector Del Ponte actually said it is more probable that rebels used chemical weapons.
You cannot seriously think that this whole conflict is about a dictator.
The USA has a history of pushing through it's agendas with force. CIA just confirmed that they made a coup d'etat in Iran in 1953. Everyone should think about this whole conflict and question everything.
Would it be useful to destroy Iran's biggest ally? Would it be helpful to have a puppet regime in Syria, so that Saudi-Arabia/Qatar (USA's biggest allies in the region, coincidentally they are the countries who arm the rebels) could build a pipeline to Europe?
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On August 21 2013 21:43 Douillos wrote:
So this whole: "Omg Israel/USA funded set up to bout Assad" is a fuckin joke, it's ridiculous, and mainly because:
Assad has Russia and China with him, He does not give a flying fuck about what the UN or the US thinks.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FUM1NZv.jpg)
How are they going to help their buddy Assad?
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And you sound like a useful idiot brainwashed by pro-American media. Revolution? What revolution? It's an insurgency carried out, for the most part, by non-Syrian mercenaries, and sponsored by the USA-Israel coalition, which wants to destabilize Syria in order to have an easier time invading Iran.
And since there's no bottom-up revolution in the first place, I disregard its proclaimed motives.
Kind of weird to destabilize Syria in order to invade Iran when Syria could do precisely nothing to prevent or resist an invasion of Iran.
There's kind of this country called Iraq in the way, and the area of Iraq in between Syria and Iran is actually two areas:
1. Sunni al-Anbar province (Sunnis don't like Shi'ites remember)
2. Iraqi Kurdistan (Kurds don't like Assad or Iran either)
If the Syrian government did widely and deliberately use chemical weapons in the attack yesterday, I don't see how the world can't intervene despite the rage from the conspiracy theorists and general anti-Western ideologues. The world can't allow that kind of thing to happen or the whole post-WW2 international order (which hasn't done very well at preventing massacres but it's still needed) is in jeopardy, every tin-pot dictator will be gassing his own citizens if they rise up because he'll know no one will stop him.
On August 22 2013 04:14 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 21:43 Douillos wrote:
So this whole: "Omg Israel/USA funded set up to bout Assad" is a fuckin joke, it's ridiculous, and mainly because:
Assad has Russia and China with him, He does not give a flying fuck about what the UN or the US thinks.
How are they going to help their buddy Assad?
I don't see any Russian flags in the Mediterranean on that map despite the fact that there is a Russian naval squadron steaming off the coast of Syria and that that naval squadron has been there for almost the entirety of the conflict. It has been reported (not confirmed) that Assad spends most of his time on a Russian naval vessel surrounded by the other Russian ships off the coast. Also don't see the Russian naval base at Tartus marked even though it is Russia's only naval base directly on the Mediterranean.
I'm not sure why there are American flags in Iraq there; the Iraqis told us they didn't want us sticking around anymore and we left. We don't have anything more than the most token of token military presences in Iraq. Of course now the Iraqis are saying that they're thinking about asking us back, good luck with that one Baghdad.
Hezbollah is in Lebanon and Iran has been flying arms into Syria over Iraqi airspace nonstop, Russia has also being flying weapons into Syria. Your picture there is very very misleading.
The claim about Hezbollah is right. However, the thing about Iranian Revolutionary Guards being in Syria is denied by officials. Syria's foreign minister said that no Iranian fighter is fighting on Syria's side.
Hahahahaha. Who gives a shit what the Syrian foreign minister says? Everybody knows there are IRGC operatives in Syria. They were there before the uprising, they sure as hell didn't leave.
The same way Iran swore up and down oh no we don't have any operatives in Iraq despite the US killing or capturing thousands of IRGC operatives over the course of the war there.
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The UN will have to move now. Russia cannot possibly veto anything further now, as they themselves are privy to UN chemical weapons treaties.
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On August 22 2013 04:14 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 21:43 Douillos wrote:
So this whole: "Omg Israel/USA funded set up to bout Assad" is a fuckin joke, it's ridiculous, and mainly because:
Assad has Russia and China with him, He does not give a flying fuck about what the UN or the US thinks.
How are they going to help their buddy Assad?
They veto UN security council resolutions so USA can't take any legal action and can provide financial support, russia is also supplying arms and has been for a long time. Syria gets most of its military aid from Iran and hezbollah.
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On August 22 2013 05:16 a176 wrote:
The UN will have to move now. Russia cannot possibly veto anything further now, as they themselves are privy to UN chemical weapons treaties.
If there is evidence 100 % agree because they can just put it out publicly in the UN. And the Assad is fucked. Until then nothing will happen.
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On August 22 2013 05:58 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 05:16 a176 wrote:
The UN will have to move now. Russia cannot possibly veto anything further now, as they themselves are privy to UN chemical weapons treaties. If there is evidence 100 % agree because they can just put it out publicly in the UN. And the Assad is fucked. Until then nothing will happen.
I tend to think that the evidence is there now.
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Russia says Syrian rebels were responsible for chemical attack on outskirts of Damascus - @nytimesworld
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On August 22 2013 05:58 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 05:16 a176 wrote:
The UN will have to move now. Russia cannot possibly veto anything further now, as they themselves are privy to UN chemical weapons treaties. If there is evidence 100 % agree because they can just put it out publicly in the UN. And the Assad is fucked. Until then nothing will happen.
Putin's government blew up apartment buildings full of Russians to create the provocation necessary for the 2000 invasion of Chechnya, chances are he is going to blame this on the rebels/Americans since that is exactly what he would do.
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EPT
