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Libyan Uprising - Page 159

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
September 09 2011 10:31 GMT
#3161
Napoleon said it , the British colonial empire said it and NATO is saying it again. I'm not talking about libya But nato's general policy of bringing "democracy" and "freedom" by invasion. Napoleon did it to "modernize" the country, the British colonial empire did it to make other non-white races educated and "civil" because they were inherently inferior, NATO is doing it to bring "freedom". Sorry we don't live in fairyland but rather a world run by money, the invaders only invade when they will be financial better. I will not be surprised if the uk/France got all the oil deals just like the USA and the uk got them in Iraq for "liberating them" and destroying their WMDs.
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
September 09 2011 10:50 GMT
#3162
On September 09 2011 19:14 Kukaracha wrote:
You quote a wikipedia article. Which source is the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK which you then proceed to dismiss as an unreliable source.
+ the CIA World factbook says it's a 30% unemplyment rate and has said so since 2004. (Check older news articles to verify).


I said cannot be trusted after 17feb.
It was 7,6% in the CIA World factbook by the end of 2010
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110221083152AAsZBmV
And after conflict it jumped to 1/3. Why?
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6641 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 11:02:57
September 09 2011 10:57 GMT
#3163
On September 09 2011 19:50 GeyzeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 19:14 Kukaracha wrote:
You quote a wikipedia article. Which source is the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK which you then proceed to dismiss as an unreliable source.
+ the CIA World factbook says it's a 30% unemplyment rate and has said so since 2004. (Check older news articles to verify).


I said cannot be trusted after 17feb.
It was 7,6% in the CIA World factbook by the end of 2010
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110221083152AAsZBmV
And after conflict it jumped to 1/3. Why?

You're comparing employment rate to poverty rate, they're two different things, that's why they're different...

Also if unemployment DID rise then perhaps it had something to do with everyone quitting their job to join the rebellion?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 11:32:37
September 09 2011 11:26 GMT
#3164
On September 09 2011 19:50 GeyzeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 19:14 Kukaracha wrote:
You quote a wikipedia article. Which source is the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK which you then proceed to dismiss as an unreliable source.
+ the CIA World factbook says it's a 30% unemplyment rate and has said so since 2004. (Check older news articles to verify).


I said cannot be trusted after 17feb.
It was 7,6% in the CIA World factbook by the end of 2010
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110221083152AAsZBmV
And after conflict it jumped to 1/3. Why?


Maybe because... THERE IS A CIVIL WAR IN LIBYA?

Dear God.
Just read the factbook, there is no date estimate, which means that it's an estimation of the current situation.

On September 09 2011 19:57 jello_biafra wrote:
Also if unemployment DID rise then perhaps it had something to do with everyone quitting their job to join the rebellion?


No, the estimation actually dates back to 2005.
Most likely numbers I've seen on the web are around 20%, 30% being maybe a peak or exaggeration and 10% having only appeared lately (even though the situation has worsened since then). I wonder why?

The most intesting analysis though was to say that the majority of people under 20 were unemployed. The Libyan problem was a youth problem, not a problem of all ages and social classes. The education system and the market are disconnected, but this doesn't affect much those who are already established in society. Corruption was another big problem, but the truth is that this is very common worldwide and rarly is the sole cause of a rebellion.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
September 09 2011 15:28 GMT
#3165
On September 09 2011 19:57 jello_biafra wrote:
You're comparing employment rate to poverty rate, they're two different things, that's why they're different...

Also if unemployment DID rise then perhaps it had something to do with everyone quitting their job to join the rebellion?


No, I am comparing "Population below poverty line". It was 7.4% and now "NA note: About one-third of Libyans live at or below the national poverty line".
I doubt that it has any sense to measure "Population below poverty line" during a civil war, and how?
The reason of the current "one-third" on CIA factsbook - it is lie and part of the recent antiGaddafi propaganda.
The unemployment among youth did really exist. Libya experienced considerable population grow under rule of the tyrant and its economy did not catch the pace and did not create equivalent amount of good jobs. There is plenty of low level job in Libya taken buy guest workers, but young Libyans do not want it.

There is still a lot of fighting in the country. Western media presents the situation like it's almost over and they need just to find and catch Gaddafi. It is far from over. Now when Libyan army has no fixed position, it is harder for NATO to bomb it.
Many tribes having seen what the rebels did to Tripoli, took finally side and fight against the rebels.
Islamists are almost independent from NTC now.
America fought with terrorism, catching islamists all over the world and handling many of them to Gaddafi. Gaddafi really give his hand in this.
Now they are free from prisons, armed and ready to act. Of cause The West new that it is going to happen.
There are many reports form independent media that many European special forces died in Libya but it cannot be confirmed of course.

It is very interesting moment in the world economy and finance and we are witnessing the beginning of big changes...
muse5187
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
1125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 15:39:20
September 09 2011 15:33 GMT
#3166
On September 10 2011 00:28 GeyzeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 19:57 jello_biafra wrote:
You're comparing employment rate to poverty rate, they're two different things, that's why they're different...

Also if unemployment DID rise then perhaps it had something to do with everyone quitting their job to join the rebellion?


No, I am comparing "Population below poverty line". It was 7.4% and now "NA note: About one-third of Libyans live at or below the national poverty line".
I doubt that it has any sense to measure "Population below poverty line" during a civil war, and how?
The reason of the current "one-third" on CIA factsbook - it is lie and part of the recent antiGaddafi propaganda.
The unemployment among youth did really exist. Libya experienced considerable population grow under rule of the tyrant and its economy did not catch the pace and did not create equivalent amount of good jobs. There is plenty of low level job in Libya taken buy guest workers, but young Libyans do not want it.

There is still a lot of fighting in the country. Western media presents the situation like it's almost over and they need just to find and catch Gaddafi. It is far from over. Now when Libyan army has no fixed position, it is harder for NATO to bomb it.
Many tribes having seen what the rebels did to Tripoli, took finally side and fight against the rebels.
Islamists are almost independent from NTC now.
America fought with terrorism, catching islamists all over the world and handling many of them to Gaddafi. Gaddafi really give his hand in this.
Now they are free from prisons, armed and ready to act. Of cause The West new that it is going to happen.
There are many reports form independent media that many European special forces died in Libya but it cannot be confirmed of course.

It is very interesting moment in the world economy and finance and we are witnessing the beginning of big changes...

Is anything that disagrees with you propaganda? I mean source after source, anything that you do not post is "propaganda". You then counter with "evidence" from untrusted sources, typically made up people in libya. Cool strategy. Stop making outrageous claims and provide some legitimate sources and someone MAY take you seriously. Right now you're just a tin foiler.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 09 2011 17:07 GMT
#3167
On September 10 2011 00:28 GeyzeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 19:57 jello_biafra wrote:
You're comparing employment rate to poverty rate, they're two different things, that's why they're different...

Also if unemployment DID rise then perhaps it had something to do with everyone quitting their job to join the rebellion?


No, I am comparing "Population below poverty line". It was 7.4% and now "NA note: About one-third of Libyans live at or below the national poverty line".
I doubt that it has any sense to measure "Population below poverty line" during a civil war, and how?
The reason of the current "one-third" on CIA factsbook - it is lie and part of the recent antiGaddafi propaganda.
The unemployment among youth did really exist. Libya experienced considerable population grow under rule of the tyrant and its economy did not catch the pace and did not create equivalent amount of good jobs. There is plenty of low level job in Libya taken buy guest workers, but young Libyans do not want it.

There is still a lot of fighting in the country. Western media presents the situation like it's almost over and they need just to find and catch Gaddafi. It is far from over. Now when Libyan army has no fixed position, it is harder for NATO to bomb it.
Many tribes having seen what the rebels did to Tripoli, took finally side and fight against the rebels.
Islamists are almost independent from NTC now.
America fought with terrorism, catching islamists all over the world and handling many of them to Gaddafi. Gaddafi really give his hand in this.
Now they are free from prisons, armed and ready to act. Of cause The West new that it is going to happen.
There are many reports form independent media that many European special forces died in Libya but it cannot be confirmed of course.

It is very interesting moment in the world economy and finance and we are witnessing the beginning of big changes...


I'm sorry, but following this topic, you've discredited nearly every single legitimate source that arises as being "western biased" etc. and almost every source you've brought up screams being uncredible. In fact, there have been several examples of sources you've posted that don't have any legitimate source themselves, or quote a source that never said that in the first place... it's just getting really annoying reading you posts trying to stay updated on the topic, it feels almost as if you're googling to find anything that supports your conspiracy theories...
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6270 Posts
September 09 2011 21:03 GMT
#3168
alright guys some updates from al jazeera it's an article I'll post some of the important things out of it:

Libyan fighters enter Bani Walid

Street battles reported to be taking place inside the Gaddafi stronghold, just hours before a surrender deadline.


Fighters belonging to the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) say they have entered the loyalist stronghold of Bani Walid, with street fighting reported to be taking place in the town, 150km southeast of the capital Tripoli.

The news came just hours after Muammar Gaddafi's loyalists fired Grad rocket barrages at the fighters besieging Bani Walid and Sirte, a coastal city also under the deposed leader's control.


And in Teassain, 90km east of Sirte, witnesses told the Reuters news agency they saw heavy rocket exchanges between NTC forces and Gaddafi loyalists.

Abdullah Kenshil, an NTC spokesman in Bani Walid, told Al Jazeera: "I think we are very close. We are pushing further and we hope we can take the city without further fighting.

"But from our experience, they [pro-Gaddafi troops] are fighters - very professional, from different parts of Libya and also mercenaries ... once we engage with them they throw down their weapons. There are snipers who shoot at the troops and at civilians," he said.


Gaddafi insisted in a defiant audio message broadcast on Thursday that he was still in Libya to lead the fight against what he called the"rats" and "stray dogs" who had taken over Tripoli.

But four of his senior officials, including his air-force commander and a general in charge of his forces in the south, were among a new group of Libyans who have fled to neighbouring Niger, according to officials in Niger.


Niger, under pressure from Western powers and Libya's new rulers to hand over former Gaddafi officials suspected of human-rights abuses, said it would respect its commitments to the ICC if Gaddafi or his sons entered the country.

"We are signatories of the [Hague-based International Criminal Court, or ICC] Rome Statute so they know what they are exposed to if they come," Massaoudou Hassoumi, the head of President Mahamadou Issoufou's cabinet, said.


source

from the live blog:

2 hours 7 min ago - Libya


AFP: The United States will next week ramp-up work on a UN Security Council resolution targeting Syria, the State Department said Friday, amid opposition from other member states to approve a forceful resolution.

"We're looking at accelerating that work next week," spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in reference to a draft resolution likely to include sanctions."We are consulting in New York, these consultations will continue," she said.


2 hours 2 min ago - Libya

According to Reuters, Libyan fighters clashed with Muammar Gaddafi loyalists armed with rockets outside the ousted leader's hometown of Sirte on Friday, a military spokesman said. "(Gaddafi forces) shot at us with Grad missiles. There are battles near the river," spokesman Ahmed Bani said by telephone. The coastal town of Sirte is one of a handful of Libyan sites still held by Gaddafi loyalists.


1 hour 58 min ago - Libya

AFP is reporting that with just hours to go before a deadline for Muammar Gaddafi's supporters to lay down their arms, a top Libyan commander said no breakthrough had come and "decisive military action" was iminent.

"Up to now these negotiations did not lead to positive results," said Salem Jeha - a highly influential member of Misrata's military council- a few hours ahead of the midnight deadline.

"If the negotiations fail then there will be decisive active, decisive military action."


1 hour 34 min ago - Libya

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton stated that there are unconfirmed reports that anti-gaddafi supporters within Bani Walid are taking matters into their own hands and rebelling against Gaddafi loyalists, casualties reported. She stressed the fact that these were unconfirmed reports.

source
Aurocaido
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada288 Posts
September 10 2011 04:57 GMT
#3169
An article written by Eugene Gajvoronsky that I came across, it was originally in Russian and I, being a monolingual english speaker, translated it on google. Here is a rough summary of what the article contained.

Source


Tripoli: the fighting in the city, in north-western suburbs with artillery. Thus, in the Salah Edden destroyed three rebel jeeps. There is information about the progress of a heavily armed team of Khamis al-Gaddafi in Tripoli, the southern suburbs area Az zawiya.

Bani Walid: sheikhs and tribal elders Rafla decided not to take the city, the defenders are confident in their abilities and are determined to fight against the colonial coalition to end. There have been conflicting reports about the number of bands, the besiegers Bani Walid (7-fold difference). Yesterday also was informed of the unsuccessful attack coalition forces in the city, in which the defenders were destroyed hundreds of tribes of the attackers.

In the area of coalition convoy Tarragon ambushed - 14 rebels killed. Do not stop the bombing of Sirte. Fighting in Az zawiya, ITAR-TASS reported on the atrocities the rebels in this city. Against colonial factions of the coalition, based in the area of ​​tactical missiles used Misurata "Scud" (big explosions September 5).

It is worth to highlight what is happening in Benghazi: social entropy in the relations between the four centers of power Cyrenaica (Obeid tribe and Haruba, Islamist gangs of Benghazi and Middle Eastern mercenaries), it seems, has reached critical mass. There have been reports of clashes between different factions of rebels, and even the use of NATO air power against the rebels of Benghazi. Perhaps, the tribes of Cyrenaica, hlebnuv full freedom and the wind of change, decided to join the union of tribes that support the government Jamahiriya. Information about this already started to arrive and now verified.

Algeria is going to send humanitarian aid to Libya. The Syrian and Algerian hackers made a DDoS attack on the website of Al-Jazeera television. Confirmed by information from previous reports on the spread of guerrilla warfare in parts of Central Africa: Governments of Mali and Niger do not hide the concern in connection with the appearance of armed men that would destabilize the country's Saharan inside in case of supporting the rebels by the authorities of the PNS.

In the last 72 hours loyalists killed at least 128 rebels, 25 vehicles, including 2 tanks. According to various estimates, from 70 to 80 percent of Libya Libyan territory controlled by the army and the tribes loyal to Colonel Qaddafi.


Its getting more and more difficult to take the claims of either side seriously anymore. (How many times do the sons of Gaddafi need to be captured or killed) But I think one thing is certain. The events being portrayed in the mainstream media are not an accurate depiction of what is actually taking place on the ground.

This war has been going on for about six months, I think it is quite evident now that the 'vast majority' of Libyans do not support the NTC, and Gaddafi has more support than he is being credited with. It seems unlikely that a regime could last this long with NATO bombing it night and day without any popular support.
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 07:46:03
September 10 2011 07:45 GMT
#3170
Rebels using Children as war soldier




Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
September 10 2011 07:54 GMT
#3171
Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing
It wasn't the Libyans

Former U.S. Congressman Walter Fauntroy, who recently returned from a self-sanctioned peace mission to Libya, said he went into hiding for about a month in Libya after witnessing horrifying events in Libya's bloody civil war -- a war that Fauntroy claims is backed by European forces.

Fauntroy's sudden disappearance prompted rumors and news reports that he had been killed.

In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"'What the hell' I'm thinking to myself. I'm getting out of here. So I went in hiding," Fauntroy said.


http://www.afro.com/sections/news/national/story.htm?storyid=72369
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 08:02:53
September 10 2011 08:02 GMT
#3172
On September 10 2011 16:54 Saji wrote:
Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing
It wasn't the Libyans

Show nested quote +
Former U.S. Congressman Walter Fauntroy, who recently returned from a self-sanctioned peace mission to Libya, said he went into hiding for about a month in Libya after witnessing horrifying events in Libya's bloody civil war -- a war that Fauntroy claims is backed by European forces.

Fauntroy's sudden disappearance prompted rumors and news reports that he had been killed.

In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"'What the hell' I'm thinking to myself. I'm getting out of here. So I went in hiding," Fauntroy said.


http://www.afro.com/sections/news/national/story.htm?storyid=72369


That's funny, considering the man was in Tripoli at the time. Which small villages did he watch get stormed again? Any particular reason why the ELITE UNDETECTABLE FRENCH AND DANISH troops let him live?

I suppose that bullshit is much easier to pass off as news when you shy away from the details.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 12:10:24
September 10 2011 12:01 GMT
#3173
Libya's interim leaders under fire over governance
Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:33pm EDT

Political groups reject NTC proposal

By Emma Farge

BENGHAZI, Libya, Sept 10 (Reuters) - Hundreds of people have marched in Benghazi calling for a shake-up of Libya's new leadership while nascent political groups have challenged the country's interim rulers in a memorandum, saying their governance plan does not meet the people's demands.

The Benghazi residents marched from a charred compound of former leader Muammar Gaddafi on Friday, singing "the first martyrs were from Benghazi" and criticising what they called "climbers" and "opportunists" in the new leadership.

"Some of the executive committee are blood-suckers and thieves and we keep seeing them on TV. They should be in court," said Shukri, a middle-aged auditor, referring to the country's cabinet, which has been officially dissolved but in practice still exists.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/10/libya-governance-idUSL5E7K923420110910
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 12:22:56
September 10 2011 12:08 GMT
#3174
U.N. to get draft Libya resolution next week: envoys
By Louis Charbonneau
UNITED NATIONS | Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:25pm ED

(Reuters) - Britain plans to submit a draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council early next week that would start easing sanctions against Libya and establish a modest U.N. mission there, diplomats said on Friday.


I bet this draft is going to be very friendly towards UK based companies in "assisting" the NTC in their "transitional" phase for democratic elections

Excerpt

One diplomat said the draft resolution would not call for an end to the no-fly zone over the North African state. But it will include an easing of the arms embargo to enable the Libyan authorities to get some weapons needed to maintain security.


LoL and guess who's going to profit from this ? and with who's money they are going to pay?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/10/us-libya-un-idUSTRE78901Y20110910
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 12:34:14
September 10 2011 12:33 GMT
#3175
An interesting article on Libya:

HYDROLOGICAL WARFARE, OIL, GAS, ARMS: THE GEOSTRATIC UNDERPINNINGS OF LIBYAN WAR

Fri Sep 9

The author is a research scholar at Harvard University’s Faculty of Arts and Sciences.

Libya sits on a resource more valuable than oil, the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer, which is an immensely vast underground sea of fresh water. Colonel Gaddafi had cleverly invested $25 billion in the Great Man-made River Project, a complex 4,000-km long water pipeline buried beneath the desert that could transport two million cubic metres of water a day. Such a monumental water distribution scheme could turn Libya – a nation that is 95 per cent desert – into a food self-sufficient arable oasis.

Today France’s global mega-water companies like Suez, Ondeo and Saur, control more than 45 per cent of the world’s water market and are rushing to privatize water, already a $400 billion global business. For these French companies, Libya will be a bonanza. No wonder Le Monde coined it ”Sarkozy’s War” and had a ”Victoire” front page splash when Mr Gaddafi’s compound was stormed.

Late last year, the Central Intelligence Agency suspiciously raised the spectre of ”future ‘hydrological warfare’ in which rivers, lakes and aquifers become national security assets to be fought over,” or controlled through proxy armies and client states. Regime change in Libya is the first major instance of hydrological warfare.



See Spoiler for entire article

+ Show Spoiler +
Death for Libyans = billions for the West


Garikai Chengu. The Citizen (Tanzania)
From oil to water, water-boarding to arms and from gas to reconstruction the war in Libya will rake in billions of dollars for the West. Just how much will trickle down to the people of Libya remains to be seen.

People who think that the West’s intervention in Libya is just another oil grab are mistaken. Broadly speaking, for Britain military intervention is mainly about arms, Italy its natural gas, France its water and for the US its counter-terrorism and reconstruction contracts. Spreading democracy and saving the people of Benghazi form merely tangential benefits used to justify these ends.

Lest we forget, Nato’s bombardment began because Mr Gaddafi threatened to do to Benghazi what Mr Bashar al-Assad’s forces are doing to various Syrian cities and Nato itself is poised to do in Sirte.

”History is a set of lies agreed upon” once remarked Napoleon Bonaparte. If left unchallenged the true motives behind what the French mainstream media have coined ”Sarkozy’s War” may be lost in the fog of war.

So what makes Libya so important to the West? Any real estate agent could tell you: location. Given that Libya sits atop the strategic intersection of the Mediterranean, African, and Arab worlds, control of the nation, has always been a remarkably effective way to project power into these three regions and beyond.

Ever since time immemorial Western control over Libya has been of great importance. After Libyan independence in 1951, US, British and French payments for military basing rights formed the single-largest element of Libyan GDP until oil exports began to flow in 1961.

Nowadays, Mr Sarkozy’s interest in Libya lies in a commodity more precious than oil, namely water. It is becoming increasingly accepted that water promises to be to the 21st century what oil was to the 20th century: the precious commodity that determines the wealth of nations.

Unlike oil, there are no substitutes, alternatives or stopgaps for water. Nature has decreed that the supply of water is fixed. Meanwhile demand rises inexorably as the world’s population increases and enriches itself. Population growth, climate change, pollution, urbanization and the rapid development of manufacturing industries are relentlessly combining such that demand for fresh water will outstrip supply by 40 per cent by 2040.

Libya sits on a resource more valuable than oil, the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer, which is an immensely vast underground sea of fresh water. Colonel Gaddafi had cleverly invested $25 billion in the Great Man-made River Project, a complex 4,000-km long water pipeline buried beneath the desert that could transport two million cubic metres of water a day. Such a monumental water distribution scheme could turn Libya – a nation that is 95 per cent desert – into a food self-sufficient arable oasis.

Today France’s global mega-water companies like Suez, Ondeo and Saur, control more than 45 per cent of the world’s water market and are rushing to privatize water, already a $400 billion global business. For these French companies, Libya will be a bonanza. No wonder Le Monde coined it ”Sarkozy’s War” and had a ”Victoire” front page splash when Mr Gaddafi’s compound was stormed.

Late last year, the Central Intelligence Agency suspiciously raised the spectre of ”future ‘hydrological warfare’ in which rivers, lakes and aquifers become national security assets to be fought over,” or controlled through proxy armies and client states. Regime change in Libya is the first major instance of hydrological warfare.

With the spoils of war from Libya’s water market largely reserved for the French, Mr. Cameron is eyeing another market, that of arms.

The subject of the West selling arms to regimes suppressing uprisings remains as wilfully overlooked as an American war crime. Even as The Times of London has just reported that Britain enjoyed a 30 per cent spike in arms sales to regimes in the Middle East during the Arab Spring. Arms sold between February and July jumped to $101 million, the Times’ report says, noting that these include weapons that could be used to suppress domestic protests.

Mr Obama’s administration is even more steeped in the controversial arms trade. The US accepts no rival on this front. Over the past decade the US has averaged a staggering $5.8 billion per year in arms sales with the Middle East.

The very Libyan military hardware that Nato boastfully claims to have downgraded by 90 per cent will need to be rebuilt. US arms companies will gleefully be on hand to arm their proxy regime to the teeth. Libya will be a bonanza for American arms dealers.

American infrastructure contractors will also reap the windfalls of post-war reconstruction. The grim reality is that every bridge, road, rail-link and building that US war-planes bomb will have to be rebuilt and paid for by the Libyan taxpayer.

Even grimmer still is the fact that the approximately $1.1billion spent by the US government on bombarding Libya is a drop in the ocean compared to the profit that American contractors stand to make. Many of whom have strong ties to the upper echelons of the military and the Obama administration.

In-fact, more than 70 American companies and individuals have won up to $8 billion in contracts for work in post-war Iraq and Afghanistan over the last two years, according to a new study by the Center for Public Integrity.

According to the study, nearly 70 per cent of these companies had employees or board members who either served in or had close ties to the executive branch for Republican and Democratic administrations, for members of Congress of both parties, or at the highest levels of the military.

Therefore, those in the military tasked with minimising ‘collateral damage’ to property stand to directly profit from less than pinpoint precision. In short, dropping bombs can be profitable.

The recent bombshell revelations of correspondence between the CIA and Libya’s security apparatus prove that the US has been outsourcing its torture or ”enhanced interrogation” of terror suspects to Libya through the internationally illegal rendition process. These revelations are embarrassing but hardly surprising. Nevertheless, there is little doubt a pliant proxy regime will continue to do America’s dirty work.

Last but not least there is oil. Much as the self-righteous West might pretend otherwise, oil is unquestionably a key part of the equation. Libya has the largest oil reserves in Africa and 85 per cent of its exports are to Europe.

Archival footage of Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi surrounded by Mr Gaddafi’s female bodyguards, kissing the Libyan strongman’s hand at Leonardo Da Vinci airport is indicative of just how important Libya is to Italy.

Libya’s oil is especially important to Italy because of its proximity, the ease of its extraction, and the sweetness of its crude. Most refineries in Italy and elsewhere are built to deal with sweet Libyan crude, they cannot easily process the heavier Saudi crude that has recently replaced the Libyan production shortfall.

Libyan natural gas reserves are estimated to be over 52.7 trillion cubic feet and large areas of the country are still to be surveyed. With assured supplies available from Libya, Italy will become less dependent on supplies from Russia, which on the energy front is increasingly flexing its muscles and thumbing its nose at mainland Europe.

Libya has a 1,800km coastline just miles from Italy and porous southern borders with three poor African nations. Therefore, a pliant regime that will stem the flow of asylum seekers and keep the oil and gas flowing is vital for Rome.

From oil to water, water-boarding to arms and from gas to reconstruction the war in Libya will rake in billions of dollars for the West. Just how much will trickle down to the people of Libya remains to be seen.

The author is a research scholar at Harvard University’s Faculty of Arts and Sciences.

Source:

http://libya360.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/hydrological-warfare-oil-gas-arms-the-geostratic-underpinnings-of-libyan-war/


muse5187
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
1125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-10 12:41:28
September 10 2011 12:39 GMT
#3176
Just wow, and you want to talk about believing propaganda. Now you're just shitting on this thread. Half sourceless rest from random blogs. And you believe this trash. Why aren't you banned is beyond me.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
September 10 2011 12:42 GMT
#3177
Erm, logically, considering Libya's past history and the leading weapon industries of Europe, it's more likely that France would provide such"defense equipment". And I guess that the primary objective is not to sell weapons - although it is probably an important point - but to ensure that Europe chooses and defends the leaders they want for Libya.

And I do agree with Auroicado, as I said the news coverage of these events has been indreibly disappointing. One day Gaddaffi is dead, the next one he does a speech, the people of Libya rise up against him, no wait it's 70%, 50%, 30%, no wait 90% are with him oh no no no wait this doesn't make sense.

It's easy to realize that even for a direct witness, guerilla warfare is a complete mess.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
September 10 2011 12:45 GMT
#3178
On September 10 2011 21:08 Saji wrote:

LoL and guess who's going to profit from this ? and with who's money they are going to pay?


And what difference is there with these past 5 years when Gaddaffi used oil money to create powerful paramilitary groupe, like his sons, and buying expensive brand new jet fighters from France?
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
September 10 2011 13:29 GMT
#3179
On September 10 2011 21:45 Kukaracha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 21:08 Saji wrote:

LoL and guess who's going to profit from this ? and with who's money they are going to pay?


And what difference is there with these past 5 years when Gaddaffi used oil money to create powerful paramilitary groupe, like his sons, and buying expensive brand new jet fighters from France?


The same paramilitary groups that CIA had lose relationship with and helped train them (why aren't you critical of the role of the CIA in this)...

Besides that what do you think the FBI, CIA, SAS, and the other secret agency are in the western world. (you just don't call them paramilitary to feel good). Go watch Gore Vidal's History of The National Security State, the last part with Ray McGovern EX CIA for more info on western intelligence services agency, modern day gestapo).

And about the capital, the difference is that the money flow remained in Libya with Gadaffi. With the new situation the capital of the Libyan people will be extracted to the west (multinationals and arms manufacturers). This of course will not benefit the Libyan people.

Also don't forget for all the wrongs Gadaffi did, he did build a country with its resources. People defending this war act as if Gadaffi has been looting all the money gained fro the resources.

Tell me what despot/dictator would spend 25 billion in a project (The Great Man Made River) that was making Libya the most fertile land in Africa in terms of agriculture.

The Great-Man Made River International Water Prize for "Water Resources in Arid and Semi-Arid Areas" presented by UNESCO: call for nominations.

19 June 2007, World wide, Natural Sciences

http://www.unesco.kz/?newsid=2044&lang=&menu=&keyword=
More info:
+ Show Spoiler +

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0015/001524/152400e.pdf
http://portal.unesco.org/science/en/ev.php-URL_ID=5613&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html


Which now has been bombed by NATO of course.

And for the people that want to take cheap shots and what im saying I`m not a Gadaffi supported I just don't buy this bullshit propaganda of we are bringing democracy and freedom to countries with bombs.

Plus history has proven that western interventionism has never worked in favour of the people but in favour of foreign Business. Go read a book about it see spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://monthlyreview.org/press/books/pb9916/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Veins_of_Latin_America
muse5187
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
1125 Posts
September 10 2011 13:37 GMT
#3180
Ok so you don't like one sides propaganda. That's fine. But what's the point of posting the opposing propaganda. I just dont get it. You're just shitting on this thread with faux reports.
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