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Libyan Uprising - Page 134

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 14:22:17
August 25 2011 14:19 GMT
#2661
On August 25 2011 22:16 GeyzeR wrote:
Indians in Tripoli!



waiving Indian flags
I do not think it was intended, just a strange, but funny blunder.


Or, it could have been an honest mistake... With protest footage being mixed up.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
August 25 2011 14:23 GMT
#2662
On August 25 2011 23:19 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:16 GeyzeR wrote:
Indians in Tripoli!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-lzI8I0_0

waiving Indian flags
I do not think it was intended, just a strange, but funny blunder.


Or, it could have been an honest mistake... With protest footage being mixed up.

Yeah it's definitely the BBC, honest mistake I think, it was early in the morning as you can see
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
August 25 2011 14:32 GMT
#2663
I think the video description "Incredible media lies" is exaggerated.
People are not that ignorant (yet) to buy it.
But at least one BBC employee was ignorant enough
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
August 25 2011 14:37 GMT
#2664
On August 25 2011 23:32 GeyzeR wrote:
I think the video description "Incredible media lies" is exaggerated.
People are not that ignorant (yet) to buy it.
But at least one BBC employee was ignorant enough


Or, someone screwed up in a live cast. Because that never, ever happens... Right?

Look hard enough, and of course you'll find news organisations making mistakes, or having observer bias. Don't think anyone's claiming that they are perfect. Theories of vast conspiracies, OTOH, are ridiculous.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
August 25 2011 14:51 GMT
#2665
"But at least one BBC employee was ignorant enough" to make that mistake. Someone has chosen a wrong video.There is no conspiracy in that.

Back to media covering Libya.
CNN with pro-Gaddafi news, Tripoli 17-6-2011



It is good that the western media is not always biased towards one side.
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 15:22:59
August 25 2011 15:20 GMT
#2666
On August 25 2011 23:19 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 22:16 GeyzeR wrote:
Indians in Tripoli!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-lzI8I0_0

waiving Indian flags
I do not think it was intended, just a strange, but funny blunder.


Or, it could have been an honest mistake... With protest footage being mixed up.


*Off topic



The video BBC showed was a protest in India vs corruption, The protest is being led by Anna Hazare.

See link:

http://nos.nl/video/267034-regering-india-hazare-moet-hongerstaking-stoppen.html

* On topic
August 25 2011

http://www.telesurtv.net/secciones/noticias/96902-NN/fuertes-enfrentamientos-en-las-cercanias-del-hotel-donde-se-encuentra-prensa-internacional-en-tripoli/

Summary: Heavy shooting going on at the Hotel Corinthians were several South American reporters are located.

The Reporters on location had to drop their equipment and they have scattered throughout the Hotel.

There is constant firing and sometimes they hear heavy blows (which they presumably assume are artillery shots

The Rebels are firing with heavy weapons from buildings

Informó que la situación se registra cuando el CNT afirmaba “que la mayor parte de Trípoli estaba controlada por los rebeldes”.

Basicly when all the shooting was happening which the reported witness the NTC had reported that the rebels had taken control of Tripoli.

* Disclaimer
My spanish isnt really that good so if any native spanish speaker can correct me if i said anything wrong, would be awesome

GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
August 25 2011 15:55 GMT
#2667
The released Italian journalists also confirm that the fighting is still ongoing. Tripoli is not under control of the rebels and NATO yet.
The alternative media says the same, of course. They are still fighting.
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 15:58:06
August 25 2011 15:56 GMT
#2668
On August 25 2011 23:51 GeyzeR wrote:
"But at least one BBC employee was ignorant enough" to make that mistake. Someone has chosen a wrong video.There is no conspiracy in that.

Back to media covering Libya.
CNN with pro-Gaddafi news, Tripoli 17-6-2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Ul23Y39uE

It is good that the western media is not always biased towards one side.


That's one way to read into a video that utterly refutes everything you have said up till now.


Lol at the people in those comments and their anti-zionist rhetoric. Classy crowd you mingle with, a bunch of anti-semites.
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
August 25 2011 16:41 GMT
#2669
On August 26 2011 00:56 zalz wrote:
That's one way to read into a video that utterly refutes everything you have said up till now.


Unfortunately it was a rare exception. And there are still people that takes it as a revolution against a dictator, but not a civil war. Tripolitania supports Gaddafi...


Lol at the people in those comments and their anti-zionist rhetoric. Classy crowd you mingle with, a bunch of anti-semites.


The Libyan NATO campaign dealt sooo much damage to NATO and the Western World public image. The percentage of people understanding that something is wrong here is growing.
Unlike in this topic, in the comments to youtube videos, even, for example, in prowestern AlJazeeraEnglish, people not supporting NATO and the rebels are the majority and got the most "likes".
And the discussion is like:

antiNATO side: many arguments(oil, currency, politics etc.)
proNATO: idiots, assholes, dickheads! bullshit!

I am not even talking about RT youtube channel, where it is difficult to find someone who supports NATO.
Somebody called these people "conspiracy theorists", but it looks like after some time you, zalz, become a small minority and a conspiracy theorist, that still believes in honest media, humanitarian bombs, "good" wars for democracy, international law etc.
Traeon
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria366 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 17:13:04
August 25 2011 17:12 GMT
#2670
This whole thing isn't simple and anyone who falls into a black/white view or disregards the complexity of the situation is clearly wrong.

There are undoubtedly a multitude of interests and parties involved. We don't have to pick one side of the story. It might be convenient because it would make things simple, but it wouldn't match reality.
Hekisui
Profile Joined May 2011
195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 17:42:57
August 25 2011 17:41 GMT
#2671
GeyzeR, you are not anti NATO. I am anti NATO. What you are, I have no idea.


I haven't seen any pro NATO people. You can't think critically enough to be anti NATO anyway. You are probably close to being pro NATO and pro dictators.


But most of all, you are a liar. A liar!

User was temp banned for this post.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6248 Posts
August 25 2011 17:53 GMT
#2672
On August 26 2011 00:55 GeyzeR wrote:
The released Italian journalists also confirm that the fighting is still ongoing. Tripoli is not under control of the rebels and NATO yet.
The alternative media says the same, of course. They are still fighting.


You realize all western media says they're still fighting in Tripoli and they never claimed otherwise... go take your bs somewhere else please.
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
August 25 2011 18:01 GMT
#2673
Unfortunately it was a rare exception. And there are still people that takes it as a revolution against a dictator, but not a civil war. Tripolitania supports Gaddafi...


1) A rare exception is not possible in your scenario of a world wide conspiracy.

2) Tripoli does not support Gaddaffi. Ofcourse the man has some supporters, enough to fill a camera lense, but that's hardly the population of tripoli. Also, people in Tripoli had better show up to the rally or their neighbours could very well decide to tell Gaddaffi someone isn't a true supporter.

The Libyan NATO campaign dealt sooo much damage to NATO and the Western World public image. The percentage of people understanding that something is wrong here is growing.
Unlike in this topic, in the comments to youtube videos, even, for example, in prowestern AlJazeeraEnglish, people not supporting NATO and the rebels are the majority and got the most "likes".


The most likes...

Yes, that's how the world works, by youtube votes. You really don't put any merit in actuall research do you? You base your entire world view on youtube comments and the ammount of likes it gets...

I am stunned that you aren't even phased by the simplicity of such a view.

And the discussion is like:

antiNATO side: many arguments(oil, currency, politics etc.)
proNATO: idiots, assholes, dickheads! bullshit!


The discussion is like:

A: Hey this invasion is bad because it's done by Westerners
B: Well the people themselves rose up, it's a rebellion of the majority supported by the west, the rebels asked for the help
A: Shut the fuck up jew boy
B: Uhm, that's not very nice
A: You are just zionist scum, your day will come pig!

I am not even talking about RT youtube channel, where it is difficult to find someone who supports NATO.
Somebody called these people "conspiracy theorists", but it looks like after some time you, zalz, become a small minority and a conspiracy theorist, that still believes in honest media, humanitarian bombs, "good" wars for democracy, international law etc.


Again, you base your worldview on youtube comments and youtube likes. Is this a joke?

I also am slightly disturbed by how you did not even distance yourself from the anti-jewish rhetoric uttered in those comments but even seemed supportive of it.
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 18:41:32
August 25 2011 18:36 GMT
#2674
News report about the talks between nations for what is going to happened.

Note* if these conditions are met it means that the actions proposed will be in effect.


August 24, 2011 10:25 am
Libya rebels seek $2.5bn in aid


http://www.ft.com/home/europe

The Some Paragraphs from the news report:

“The one thing that the international community can do to help shape events in Tripoli is to make sure the new leaders get financial resources they need,” said a UK official. “What New York now needs to do is unfreeze assets quickly.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington is now working to release about $1.5bn in liquid assets to the NTC for humanitarian purposes and to “help it establish a secure, stable government”, said Victoria Nuland, a state department spokeswoman.
The rebel group has made “strong commitments” that it would use the money transparently, she said on Tuesday. “We would not have taken this step if we didn’t have confidence that the money would get to the people who need it,” she said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“This is a rich country. The question is how to get the economy moving again quickly,” Lady Ashton told reporters in Brussels

Western diplomats believe the UN has a crucial role to play in assisting the new authorities in Libya and say it is essential to establish a mission on the ground as soon as possible, possibly with a military group providing protection.
The mission will have several important tasks, including the co-ordination of a humanitarian effort that is needed to aid many hospitals that are overburdened as a result of the fighting.

“The UN needs to co-ordinate international advice and assistance,” said a European diplomat. “But the emphasis is on advice. The NTC are inheriting a reasonably going concern and the richest country in Africa. You do not need to have the UN coming in and doing everything for them.”
A new resolution will also need to end an embargo on the export of refined fuel to Libya. This is now urgently needed for the provision of electricity and desalination plants.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See Spoiler for entire Article

+ Show Spoiler +


Libya’s national transitional council will ask its international allies to release an initial $2.5bn in Libyan money during a conference in Doha on Wednesday, as the rebels who have all but ousted

Colonel Muammer Gaddafi seek to shore up their tentative control of the country.
The meeting takes place as Britain, France and the US begin pushing for a new UN Security Council resolution on Libya to secure international agreement to release about $100bn of Gaddafi regime assets frozen when the crisis began.
More

ON THIS STORY
Editorial Libyan lessons
Nato prepares for post-Gaddafi Libya
Regional leaders forced to confront harsh truths
Opinion Why Assad need not fear Gaddafi’s fate
In depth Libya uprising

As the Libyan rebels continued to consolidate their hold on Tripoli on Tuesday, senior British diplomats said agreement on a new resolution by the Security Council was crucial to help stabilise the new leadership in Libya and was the next important step for the international community.

“The one thing that the international community can do to help shape events in Tripoli is to make sure the new leaders get financial resources they need,” said a UK official. “What New York now needs to do is unfreeze assets quickly.”

Mahmoud Jibril, the head of the NTC’s executive committee, said the rebels hoped to secure $2.5bn in funds before the religious festival of Eid, which marks the close of the holy month of Ramadan at the end of August. He will meet French president Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris on Wednesday to discuss prospects for the political transition.

Representatives of countries including the US, UK, France, Italy, Turkey, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are expected to attend Wednesday’s meeting in Doha.
Mustafa Abdel Jalil, chairman of the NTC, earlier asked Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary-general, to release the assets frozen through a UN sanctions resolution as countries rushed to block the regime’s access to its funds overseas.

Mr Jalil made the request during a phone call with Mr Ban on Tuesday morning but diplomats said the Security Council had not yet made any formal move on a new resolution reversing the freeze.
Agreement on a new resolution would require approval from Security Council members – Russia, China, Brazil and India – which have been lukewarm about the Nato operation in Libya until now.
“The question people are asking in New York is whether these countries will be problematic about a new resolution,” said the official. “One would assume they would not have a problem backing such a move now that Gaddafi is gone. But this does need to be tested.”

The US has frozen about $37bn of assets held by Libyan regime bodies, while the UK has frozen some £12bn and Germany has blocked about €7.3bn.
Washington is now working to release about $1.5bn in liquid assets to the NTC for humanitarian purposes and to “help it establish a secure, stable government”, said Victoria Nuland, a state department spokeswoman.

The rebel group has made “strong commitments” that it would use the money transparently, she said on Tuesday. “We would not have taken this step if we didn’t have confidence that the money would get to the people who need it,” she said.
European Union member countries were also preparing to unfreeze Libyan assets once the UN moves, said Catherine Ashton, the EU’s foreign policy chief.
“This is a rich country. The question is how to get the economy moving again quickly,” Lady Ashton told reporters in Brussels.

Western diplomats believe the UN has a crucial role to play in assisting the new authorities in Libya and say it is essential to establish a mission on the ground as soon as possible, possibly with a military group providing protection.

The mission will have several important tasks, including the co-ordination of a humanitarian effort that is needed to aid many hospitals that are overburdened as a result of the fighting.

“The UN needs to co-ordinate international advice and assistance,” said a European diplomat. “But the emphasis is on advice. The NTC are inheriting a reasonably going concern and the richest country in Africa. You do not need to have the UN coming in and doing everything for them.”
A new resolution will also need to end an embargo on the export of refined fuel to Libya. This is now urgently needed for the provision of electricity and desalination plants.



Loller
Humanitarian Intervention right.
While Thousands of people are loosing their homes and hundreds if not thousands are being killed these so called leader of the free worlds and the NTC (weren't they fighting for the people of Libya?) are discussing about how the Economy should be kicking. (Primarily the oil Industry)
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
August 25 2011 18:47 GMT
#2675
Because Libya would do great with a stagnating or staving economy, that would do them well, right?
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 18:58:32
August 25 2011 18:56 GMT
#2676
I don't care if the revolution is just or not. You don't point the fucking military at them. If the people really want Ghaddafi (i.e. don't want what the revolution wants), they should be the ones fighting against it. That's how it should and would work in the United States in a similar predicament. Any military officer, who has just been asked by a high-ranking politician to take offensive action against US citizens, is allowed, nay REQUIRED, to arrest that motherfucker (or shoot him dead if he resists) on the spot on the grounds of treason. Using military force to quell an uprising is the actions of an amoral dictator, fearful of losing his iron grip, not someone that works for the best interests of the people.
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 19:05:52
August 25 2011 19:04 GMT
#2677
No HellRoxYa here are my points why: (The economy was already starving havent you been following news man? the NATO made sure of it. (remember the sanctions made.. money frozen...)

1. The country is in a bloody guerilla war, People dying, disorder, no government services i.e. police, hospital, food etc.

2. Therefore the economy is the least of their problem (it can't function). Except if by economy you would mean Industries (oil they have nothing else).

3. If the economy which is the oil industry (referring to the article) does start to function that means that the Libyan People that have suffered will suffer more they will see nothing from the profit made. Because how in the hell is this going to help them tell me? give them jobs? give them money? give them peace?

These are my points. Now i have a question for you

In your logic how can the economy help the Libyan people at this point?
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
August 25 2011 19:04 GMT
#2678
Loller
Humanitarian Intervention right.
While Thousands of people are loosing their homes and hundreds if not thousands are being killed these so called leader of the free worlds and the NTC (weren't they fighting for the people of Libya?) are discussing about how the Economy should be kicking. (Primarily the oil Industry)


The most important factor for stability in every nation is the economy.

But it's very brave that you are willing to take an anti-economy stance. So few people seem to speak out in favour of unemployment. We really don't have enough people that rejoice at the sight of economical decline.
Saji
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands262 Posts
August 25 2011 19:23 GMT
#2679
On August 26 2011 04:04 zalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
Loller
Humanitarian Intervention right.
While Thousands of people are loosing their homes and hundreds if not thousands are being killed these so called leader of the free worlds and the NTC (weren't they fighting for the people of Libya?) are discussing about how the Economy should be kicking. (Primarily the oil Industry)


The most important factor for stability in every nation is the economy.

But it's very brave that you are willing to take an anti-economy stance. So few people seem to speak out in favour of unemployment. We really don't have enough people that rejoice at the sight of economical decline.


*bit offtopic

So freedom and and democracy aren't the most important for stability huh?

Isn't economy subservient from those 2? or is freedom and democracy subservient of the economy?
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 19:28:16
August 25 2011 19:26 GMT
#2680
On August 26 2011 04:23 Saji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 04:04 zalz wrote:
Loller
Humanitarian Intervention right.
While Thousands of people are loosing their homes and hundreds if not thousands are being killed these so called leader of the free worlds and the NTC (weren't they fighting for the people of Libya?) are discussing about how the Economy should be kicking. (Primarily the oil Industry)


The most important factor for stability in every nation is the economy.

But it's very brave that you are willing to take an anti-economy stance. So few people seem to speak out in favour of unemployment. We really don't have enough people that rejoice at the sight of economical decline.


*bit offtopic

So freedom and and democracy aren't the most important for stability huh?

Isn't economy subservient from those 2? or is freedom and democracy subservient of the economy?


An economy can thrive without democracy. A democracy can thrive without economy. They're two completely different things.

The only thing that official was saying was that Libya needs to reenter the economic system as soon as it can. The longer it stalls, the tougher it will be to pick momentum back up.
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