On August 24 2011 09:48 BlackAut wrote: u surprised that the damn al quida is an american creation (back then gainst the russians) k go check it out, if i lie don t troll me then plx :3
That's a terrible lack of understanding. I feel compelled to explain a bit of the history behind this statement. Allow me:.............
Thus spawned to global terror threat, Al Qaeda.
That's all for now. The rest has been/is unfolding today.
Im afraid this is a totally flawed history of what actually occurred. Voluminous analysis does not necessary mean sounder conclusions.
Observe this interview with Zbignew Brezinski who was the national security adviser to Jimmy Carter from 1978-81
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it.
The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan specifically to draw the Soviets into the trap. These forces would become Al Qaeda.
The next mission that these fighters embarked upon was to break up Yugoslavia following the soviet fall where these Jihadees attacked Serbia, committing atrocities and provoking reprisals in order to justify the bombing of that country. The fruits of this are the military bases being built in Bulgaria and Romania.
Another outing for these forces was deployment into Russia. The west sent large numbers of well armed Jihadees into southern Russia to continue the break up of that country. The Russians expecting to find Chechens peasants with muskets sent in a few troops with poor preparedness however what they found were thousands of US backed Jihadees with laser guided anti tank missiles. Over 5 thousand Russian army soldiers died in the ensuing blood bath. Putin finally employing immense force of arms wiped out the Chechen insurgents out some years later.
I assure you no peasant revolt can reap such havoc.
The fact is that in typical form just as in the Yugoslavian war Al Qaeda forces are fighting as the ground troops of imperial aggression on the part of NATO. The murderous rebels slaughtered every black person in Benghazi when they seized control (look it up) the western press white washed the whole incident saying that only 'some mercenaries' had been slaughtered. The reality is that this war is nothing but brazen imperial aggression where NATO is wielding brigades of murderous mercenary forces and islamic radicals ran by westen officers and with air support raping and pillaging the land as the propagandists swarm hysterically proclaiming that the reason we are conducting terror bombing on Libya is to protect civilian lives. Shocking in its hipocracy to say the least!
Hypocrisy is so embedded in the the western world, its no shocker people can't see that bombing =/ protecting civilian lives. You just have to look at the comments in this thread.
On August 24 2011 22:13 Mykill wrote: well credit to what gaddafi has done to help his country but i'm not sure what exactly started the uprising. and credit to UN for helping out civilians however....
TBH this whole rebel thing is kind of bullshit because the rebels lost again and again until they got UN (reads the rest of the world) to support them. There were more loyalists than rebels but the rest of the world we decided we knew best and helped the rebels until the loyalists caved. it seems to me like from the start it was a large bully vs little guy situation.
The uprising was started by CIA and MI6 agents using their connections which date back to the 1920's with the Senusi tribes of the Cyrenaica region. They waited until 3 days after they had successfully topped Mubarak with a military coup carried out by Field Marshal Tantawi and they kicked this operation into gear. As the west befriended Gadaffi they were able to manipulate military officers especially in the east to become corrupt sleeper agents and they also weakened Libya militarily and economically.
You cant knife someone in the back until you befriend them.
When the timing was right groups of criminals run by CIA agents took and tractor broke through the gate of an army base in Benghazi grabbed all the guns and started to shoot the soldiers and civilians alike. A propaganda blitz ensued. While corrupt generals turned sides and together they seized control of Benghazi (the capital of the British puppet king Idris who Gadaffi deposed).
The people sided with Gadaffi and the counter-revolutionary (gadaffi is the revolution) forces collapsed.
On August 24 2011 22:13 Mykill wrote: well credit to what gaddafi has done to help his country but i'm not sure what exactly started the uprising. and credit to UN for helping out civilians however....
TBH this whole rebel thing is kind of bullshit because the rebels lost again and again until they got UN (reads the rest of the world) to support them. There were more loyalists than rebels but the rest of the world we decided we knew best and helped the rebels until the loyalists caved. it seems to me like from the start it was a large bully vs little guy situation.
This is kind of obvious bullshit. The whole area where they were fighting before NATO airforce intervened was obvious an area with almost no support for Gaddafi at all. It was amazing that a band of rag tag people that mostly never shot a gun pushed back tanks and artillery.
Yeah it obviously caved in when these Gaddafi forces got reenforced. Also, it's pretty certain that the Gaddafi forces did several tactical retreats that caused the rebels to overextend.
In Syria the civilians are losing completely to the military power of Assad. There must not be any opposition at all against Assad, otherwise how is this possible?
One guy with a gun can suppress thousands or maybe tens of thousands of civilians. Military crack downs work in suppressing the population. Bengazi and the area around it obviously has extremely little support for Gaddafi.
Also, considering there was basically no resistance the last several days in Tripoli, even in Tripoli they must have almost no support. NATO can't do anything in Tripoli. They couldn't even try to defend the Bab al-Azizia compound after they had 6 months to prepare. It's actually pretty amazing how little support there appears to be for Gaddafi even in Tripoli.
Question is how much support they still have in other places like Sirte and if the Gaddafi loyalists are going to start some guerrilla war/terrorism.
On August 24 2011 09:48 BlackAut wrote: u surprised that the damn al quida is an american creation (back then gainst the russians) k go check it out, if i lie don t troll me then plx :3
That's a terrible lack of understanding. I feel compelled to explain a bit of the history behind this statement. Allow me:.............
Thus spawned to global terror threat, Al Qaeda.
That's all for now. The rest has been/is unfolding today.
Im afraid this is a totally flawed history of what actually occurred. Voluminous analysis does not necessary mean sounder conclusions.
Observe this interview with Zbignew Brezinski who was the national security adviser to Jimmy Carter from 1978-81
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it.
The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan specifically to draw the Soviets into the trap. These forces would become Al Qaeda.
The next mission that these fighters embarked upon was to break up Yugoslavia following the soviet fall where these Jihadees attacked Serbia, committing atrocities and provoking reprisals in order to justify the bombing of that country. The fruits of this are the military bases being built in Bulgaria and Romania.
Another outing for these forces was deployment into Russia. The west sent large numbers of well armed Jihadees into southern Russia to continue the break up of that country. The Russians expecting to find Chechens peasants with muskets sent in a few troops with poor preparedness however what they found were thousands of US backed Jihadees with laser guided anti tank missiles. Over 5 thousand Russian army soldiers died in the ensuing blood bath. Putin finally employing immense force of arms wiped out the Chechen insurgents out some years later.
I assure you no peasant revolt can reap such havoc.
The fact is that in typical form just as in the Yugoslavian war Al Qaeda forces are fighting as the ground troops of imperial aggression on the part of NATO. The murderous rebels slaughtered every black person in Benghazi when they seized control (look it up) the western press white washed the whole incident saying that only 'some mercenaries' had been slaughtered. The reality is that this war is nothing but brazen imperial aggression where NATO is wielding brigades of murderous mercenary forces and islamic radicals ran by westen officers and with air support raping and pillaging the land as the propagandists swarm hysterically proclaiming that the reason we are conducting terror bombing on Libya is to protect civilian lives. Shocking in its hipocracy to say the least!
Hypocrisy is so embedded in the the western world, its no shocker people can't see that bombing =/ protecting civilian lives. You just have to look at the comments in this thread.
Too true. And too many fall for it, but perhaps less than sometimes one might think.
On August 24 2011 22:13 Mykill wrote: well credit to what gaddafi has done to help his country but i'm not sure what exactly started the uprising. and credit to UN for helping out civilians however....
TBH this whole rebel thing is kind of bullshit because the rebels lost again and again until they got UN (reads the rest of the world) to support them. There were more loyalists than rebels but the rest of the world we decided we knew best and helped the rebels until the loyalists caved. it seems to me like from the start it was a large bully vs little guy situation.
The uprising was started by CIA and MI6 agents using their connections which date back to the 1920's with the Senusi tribes of the Cyrenaica region. They waited until 3 days after they had successfully topped Mubarak with a military coup carried out by Field Marshal Tantawi and they kicked this operation into gear. As the west befriended Gadaffi they were able to manipulate military officers especially in the east to become corrupt sleeper agents and they also weakened Libya militarily and economically.
You cant knife someone in the back until you befriend them.
When the timing was right groups of criminals run by CIA agents took and tractor broke through the gate of an army base in Benghazi grabbed all the guns and started to shoot the soldiers and civilians alike. A propaganda blitz ensued. While corrupt generals turned sides and together they seized control of Benghazi (the capital of the British puppet king Idris who Gadaffi deposed).
The people sided with Gadaffi and the counter-revolutionary (gadaffi is the revolution) forces collapsed.
Then the bombing began.
Were did you get the info about this I want to read it (specially about what happened in 1920)
As I write these words, Tripoli is attacked by up to five thousand mercenaries from European private military companies, Qatar and other countries. They come from the sea. Ground operation of NATO in Libya, contrary to all earlier assurances of politicians and the public, has begun.
It's already not a secret, that the first wave of reports about rebels taking Tripoli with no effort was nothing but a global fantasy, staging, designed to distract the viewer from the far more cruel and terrible reality. Instead of the truimphant rebels' entry on the streets, basking in the city's jubilant freedom - urgent landing of Al-Qaeda Islamists and PMC troops. Instead of citizens hailing their "liberators" - a mass slaughter performed by mercenaries from France and Qatar. Instead of the capture of a man resembling Saif al-Islam - an attempt to eliminate Qaddafi family, that failed miserably though. The destruction of communications and blockade of Libyan television did not prevent Saif and Moussa Ibrahim from being interviewed, leaving the media machine in disarray for some time.
The media drew conclusions. The second wave was more sophisticated: Qatari footage was generously diluted with real videos of Islamists seizing Bab al-Aziz. Here it is useful to recall that the complex was deserted long ago because of continuous bombings, so making the hole in the fence and occupating ruins is not a big victory. But a PR! What a psychological pressure! The tyrant is on the run, his symbols are desecrated!
And under this cover, you can freely make a second attempt and disembark French troops on the coast next to Tripoli on 24th of August. According to some reports, this is the Foreign Legion.
"Once in a mans life there is a moment where he should prove that has values" - writes LibyanLiberal in his Twitter, the one who first reported about the French assault. - "My time is now. For allah for Libya for mouamar. TO THE FRONT. MY NEXT TWEET WILL BE AFTER VICTORY. IF MARTYRDOM PRAY FOR MY SOUL".
A few hours later calls witnesses confirm that the attack was resumed. French hospital ship that was seen in an Algerian port on Monday seemingly didn't come there in vain. Helicopters are received 3-4 times a day. Information about the city is now controversial, but if we remember that the first group of mercenaries literally hacked through the crowd (Moussa Ibrahim announced a huge number of dead and wounded) - the blood, most likely, once again will flow like a river.
Well, the Libyans knew it would happen. They armed themselves at the beginning of the war, they waited, they promised to show hell to invades as soon as they descends to the ground. We wish them good luck. As Libyans say themselves, Allah, Muammar, Libya - and nothing more!
Also, bringing in the whole Al Qaeda line makes the whole propaganda self refuting.Gaddafi liked to do it. Iran probably also likes the irony it is supposed to carry.
Why don't they say that NATO hired Hezbollah to fight out Gaddafi as well? Just as paradoxal, just a bit more obvious.
On August 24 2011 09:48 BlackAut wrote: u surprised that the damn al quida is an american creation (back then gainst the russians) k go check it out, if i lie don t troll me then plx :3
That's a terrible lack of understanding. I feel compelled to explain a bit of the history behind this statement. Allow me:.............
Thus spawned to global terror threat, Al Qaeda.
That's all for now. The rest has been/is unfolding today.
Im afraid this is a totally flawed history of what actually occurred. Voluminous analysis does not necessary mean sounder conclusions.
Observe this interview with Zbignew Brezinski who was the national security adviser to Jimmy Carter from 1978-81
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it.
The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan specifically to draw the Soviets into the trap. These forces would become Al Qaeda.
The next mission that these fighters embarked upon was to break up Yugoslavia following the soviet fall where these Jihadees attacked Serbia, committing atrocities and provoking reprisals in order to justify the bombing of that country. The fruits of this are the military bases being built in Bulgaria and Romania.
Another outing for these forces was deployment into Russia. The west sent large numbers of well armed Jihadees into southern Russia to continue the break up of that country. The Russians expecting to find Chechens peasants with muskets sent in a few troops with poor preparedness however what they found were thousands of US backed Jihadees with laser guided anti tank missiles. Over 5 thousand Russian army soldiers died in the ensuing blood bath. Putin finally employing immense force of arms wiped out the Chechen insurgents out some years later.
I assure you no peasant revolt can reap such havoc.
The fact is that in typical form just as in the Yugoslavian war Al Qaeda forces are fighting as the ground troops of imperial aggression on the part of NATO. The murderous rebels slaughtered every black person in Benghazi when they seized control (look it up) the western press white washed the whole incident saying that only 'some mercenaries' had been slaughtered. The reality is that this war is nothing but brazen imperial aggression where NATO is wielding brigades of murderous mercenary forces and islamic radicals ran by westen officers and with air support raping and pillaging the land as the propagandists swarm hysterically proclaiming that the reason we are conducting terror bombing on Libya is to protect civilian lives. Shocking in its hipocracy to say the least!
Jesus Christ, people like you annoy the hell out of me. Do you even know the difference between the mujahideen and al qaida ? Stating that "The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan [...]. These forces would become Al Qaeda" is not only inaccurate, it's completely false.
Ok Choros tell me then your magical solution to this problem: when you raise peaceful protests, the government sends troops with guns to shoot the guy next to you. And you say, please, let us protest in peace! And the troops shoot you and continues, until every protestor is dead. And you have no access to weapons, because all of them are in control of the government. Pray then, how would you upkeep the peace? Peace of the dead, because there is no one left to shout?
I guess this comes from a government you would support: A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another - Mao Zedong.
To uproot an entrenched despotic regime who does not want to go quietly, requires application of force.
As for the Alqaeda line, first Saif said the rebels were alqaeda, then Saif said gaddafi was working with alqaeda to oust NATO, which is it? tell me, Geyzer.
I have been to forums and there are always people most likely on Gaddaffi's payroll spreading such stories and repeating the same thing, using the same sources, I can't believe they would be on TL. For the latest news from libya if you might be interested: go to the DISQUS area of this site: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/07/08/dont-call-us-rebels-0
The German NATO intel team has been posting there under the pen name Gerhard Heinz.
On August 24 2011 22:44 kwizach wrote: Jesus Christ, people like you annoy the hell out of me. Do you even know the difference between the mujahideen and al qaida ? Stating that "The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan [...]. These forces would become Al Qaeda" is not only inaccurate, it's completely false.
Actually, while it is probably false, Brzezinski claims that is what happened. Basically he prides himself on being a terrorist. He was the National Security Advisor for Carter at that time.
On August 24 2011 22:43 Hekisui wrote: Press TV is Iranian state propaganda.
True. Same as western media is western states propaganda. And I find it natural, why it should be the other way??
Nope. Because the west has somewhat independent media, they can't get away with outright lies and fabrications like Press TV. It's like Fox News squared that serves a dictator.
CNN and other western media have a strong bias but it's actually quite subtle.
And in the case of this war in Libya, they weren't actually cheer leading as much and Obama was criticized a lot.
As for the more independent media like Al Jazeera and BBC, they report on the irony of France, UK and the US being the three big imperial powers doing the bombing, causing the arab countries who were tricked into voting for the no fly zone to protest immediately, all the time.
Your fabrications are just that, fabrications. State propaganda from enemies of NATO and blackmailed journalists that are held hostage by Gaddafi. That's all you have.
On August 24 2011 22:44 kwizach wrote: Jesus Christ, people like you annoy the hell out of me. Do you even know the difference between the mujahideen and al qaida ? Stating that "The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan [...]. These forces would become Al Qaeda" is not only inaccurate, it's completely false.
Actually, while it is probably false, Brzezinski claims that is what happened. Basically he prides himself on being a terrorist. He was the National Security Advisor for Carter at that time.
No, he doesn't claim that's what happened. He says the US provided aid to the opponents of the pro-soviet leaders. He doesn't say the US created the mujahideen, nor that the mujahideen turned into al qaida, something that is completely false. Al Qaida was formed through the leadership of men who came from outside Afghanistan. They are NOT to be confused with (Afghan) mujahideen.
"Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention."
Soviets invaded in 27 December 1979.
I don't know if he is truthful or bragging in his own sick way. But that's what he said. Also, arabs stayed in Afghanistan afterward and one of him, OBL, founded Al Qaeda. Don't really know what you are arguing about anyway.
On August 24 2011 22:44 kwizach wrote: Jesus Christ, people like you annoy the hell out of me. Do you even know the difference between the mujahideen and al qaida ? Stating that "The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan [...]. These forces would become Al Qaeda" is not only inaccurate, it's completely false.
Actually, while it is probably false, Brzezinski claims that is what happened. Basically he prides himself on being a terrorist. He was the National Security Advisor for Carter at that time.
On August 24 2011 22:43 Hekisui wrote: Press TV is Iranian state propaganda.
True. Same as western media is western states propaganda. And I find it natural, why it should be the other way??
Nope. Because the west has somewhat independent media, they can't get away with outright lies and fabrications like Press TV. It's like Fox News squared that serves a dictator.
CNN and other western media have a strong bias but it's actually quite subtle.
And in the case of this war in Libya, they weren't actually cheer leading as much and Obama was criticized a lot.
As for the more independent media like Al Jazeera and BBC, they report on the irony of France, UK and the US being the three big imperial powers doing the bombing, causing the arab countries who were tricked into voting for the no fly zone to protest immediately, all the time.
Your fabrications are just that, fabrications. State propaganda from enemies of NATO and blackmailed journalists that are held hostage by Gaddafi. That's all you have.
My god Western media can't get away with outright lies? and frabications like Press TV? Really?
Really? Lets just look at what happened in Irak the build up to it, All western media were claiming Sadam had WMD right.. And they got away with it. Please don't state such obvious lies.
You aren't even trying.
and Geyzer remember what you said to me about Zalz and RvB. Its pretty much the same with this guy
2,5 hours old call from Tripoli: there are still heavy gun shots in the center. It is hard to understand what is really going on there. All alternative media is silent since there are no news providers at the moment.
You can't think critically and blame others they can't. Really a sad sad state. Go read some more of the green book.
Alternative media? Give me a break. Are you from a country that is anti NATO and you follow the party line? That's probably it. You are staked against NATO.
I am from a NATO country and I think NATO ought to be disbanded completely. And you claim I have to think critically.You buy all the propaganda you are being fed when I actually protested 4 times against the Iraq war.
On August 24 2011 22:44 kwizach wrote: Jesus Christ, people like you annoy the hell out of me. Do you even know the difference between the mujahideen and al qaida ? Stating that "The United States created mujadeen groups and sent then into Afghanistan [...]. These forces would become Al Qaeda" is not only inaccurate, it's completely false.
Actually, while it is probably false, Brzezinski claims that is what happened. Basically he prides himself on being a terrorist. He was the National Security Advisor for Carter at that time.
On August 24 2011 22:47 GeyzeR wrote:
On August 24 2011 22:43 Hekisui wrote: Press TV is Iranian state propaganda.
True. Same as western media is western states propaganda. And I find it natural, why it should be the other way??
Nope. Because the west has somewhat independent media, they can't get away with outright lies and fabrications like Press TV. It's like Fox News squared that serves a dictator.
CNN and other western media have a strong bias but it's actually quite subtle.
And in the case of this war in Libya, they weren't actually cheer leading as much and Obama was criticized a lot.
As for the more independent media like Al Jazeera and BBC, they report on the irony of France, UK and the US being the three big imperial powers doing the bombing, causing the arab countries who were tricked into voting for the no fly zone to protest immediately, all the time.
Your fabrications are just that, fabrications. State propaganda from enemies of NATO and blackmailed journalists that are held hostage by Gaddafi. That's all you have.
My god Western media can't get away with outright lies? and frabications like Press TV? Really?
Really? Lets just look at what happened in Irak the build up to it, All western media were claiming Sadam had WMD right.. And they got away with it. Please don't state such obvious lies.
You aren't even trying.
and Geyzer remember what you said to me about Zalz and RvB. Its pretty much the same with this guy
IIRC the media here wasn't hugging Bushs cock back then and the WMD's were always, also in the media, questionable? You probably should read a "real" newspaper from time to time instead of following your spiritual leaders...
On August 24 2011 23:04 Saji wrote: and Geyzer remember what you said to me about Zalz and RvB. Its pretty much the same with this guy
I must say Zalz sometimes writes sometimes reasonable. Hekisui is just a part of the western propaganda. As you can see he is quite smart and has some good knowledge.
I would like to bring in a quote from the movie I like "Thank you for smoking"
Joey Naylor: ...so what happens when you're wrong? Nick Naylor: Whoa, Joey I'm never wrong. Joey Naylor: But you can't always be right... Nick Naylor: Well, if it's your job to be right, then you're never wrong. Joey Naylor: But what if you are wrong? Nick Naylor: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say... Joey Naylor: No, chocolate is. Nick Naylor: Exactly, but you can't win that argument... so, I'll ask you: so you think chocolate is the end all and the all of ice-cream, do you? Joey Naylor: It's the best ice-cream, I wouldn't order any other. Nick Naylor: Oh! So it's all chocolate for you is it? Joey Naylor: Yes, chocolate is all I need. Nick Naylor: Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Joey Naylor, that is the defintion of liberty. Joey Naylor: But that's not what we're talking about Nick Naylor: Ah! But that's what I'm talking about. Joey Naylor: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best... Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right. Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them. [points into the crowd]
Hekisui is after them, after the crowd. He knows already that he cannot convince you.
His posts make me smile.
On August 24 2011 21:38 Hekisui wrote: The journalists in the Rixos hotel are held hostage by Gaddafi loyalists. The idea that instead they are under threat of openly NATO spies is absurd.
Sites that go offline during big media events probably do so because they go viral and exceed their bandwidth.
It is enough to call the idea absurd and that's it Websites are not blocked, they just exceeded their bandwidth. And what about blocked facebooks accounts and banned youtube video? His task is to say something, he cannot live it unanswered otherwise the crowd may think that is true. I like also his prove of the black Gaddafi mercenaries, here it is. 100% proved! I at the first moment I thought that these are Mario brothers, but when I watched closer, I could see them, the mercenaries. They wear the yellow helmets, as all normal black mercenaries do, and armed with sticks
On August 24 2011 23:09 Hekisui wrote: The media didn't lie. Bush did. Huge difference.
You can't think critically and blame others they can't. Really a sad sad state. Go read some more of the green book.
Alternative media? Give me a break. Are you from a country that is anti NATO and you follow the party line? That's probably it. You are staked against NATO.
I am from a NATO country and I think NATO ought to be disbanded completely. And you claim I have to think critically.You buy all the propaganda you are being fed when I actually protested 4 times against the Iraq war.
The media was and is the outlet for Bush/Obama/Cameron etc. They never questioned him. They never asked hard question they are as much responsible for it as Bush, because if they did question him the american people wouldn't have accepted this war.
It is not the duty of Journalist to be the spokespersons of government officials. Other wise you can just rename journalist to PR which would make much more sense. (read some info about Edward Bernays specially about PR).
Instead of questioning they celebrated Bush endeavors.
Quote from John Pilger a real Journalist:
"We journalists... have to be brave enough to defy those who seek our collusion in selling their latest bloody adventure in someone else's country... That means always challenging the official story, however patriotic that story may appear, however seductive and insidious it is. For propaganda relies on us in the media to aim its deceptions not at a far away country but at you at home... In this age of endless imperial war, the lives of countless men, women and children depend on the truth or their blood is on us... Those whose job it is to keep the record straight ought to be the voice of people, not power."
and I`m from the Netherlands in noway that is a Anti-NATO country.
EPT
(specially about what happened in 1920)![[image loading]](http://file.vustv.com/DlwIR_H3igikw.jpg)
