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NASA and the Private Sector - Page 235

Forum Index > General Forum
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Keep debates civil.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-22 21:31:19
April 22 2023 21:22 GMT
#4681
LabPadre's video of Starship taking off and every single piece of camera equipment and vehicle being obliterated. It even appears some construction equipment was damaged as well.



edit:

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-22 22:45:38
April 22 2023 22:44 GMT
#4682
I thought that kinda the whole point of a static fire is a WDR which is enhanced by having everything up to but not including the launch clamp release. Test what you fly, fly what you test and all. If they tested "properly" they would have caught this. It seems that they knew that there was a serious problem and tested incorrectly on purpose to avoid it
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Yrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany804 Posts
April 23 2023 10:59 GMT
#4683
I guess you just cant keep a rocket on the ground with all engines at max thrust.
MMR decay is bad, m'kay? | Personal Hero: TerranHwaiting
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-23 11:43:04
April 23 2023 11:28 GMT
#4684
On April 23 2023 19:59 Yrr wrote:
I guess you just cant keep a rocket on the ground with all engines at max thrust.


Falcon 9 has a TWR of ~1.41 and they have always static fired it with a ramp to full throttle while using the standard flight configuration and launch clamps.

If all engines lit, they'd have to stop at 93% throttle for SSH to not exceed that. Half the positive acceleration due to scaling problems with hold-down clamps? That's still 79%. Anything less than ~66% and they're still holding it up against gravity rather than holding it down. 50 just seemed very weirdly low to me - it's the minimum setting.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 25 2023 15:39 GMT
#4685
ispace is going to attempt to land on the Moon in less than an hour. If successful would be the first commercial mission to do so.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 25 2023 17:22 GMT
#4686
it appears it was not a success, perhaps crashed into the surface.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-25 17:55:40
April 25 2023 17:54 GMT
#4687
Yes Astra is still around. Only question is will they have enough money to last the year, or even complete what they are aiming for in this presentation. For example, they have just above $100 million left in the bank yet they burned through over 400 million last year alone.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2741 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-25 18:36:20
April 25 2023 18:35 GMT
#4688
On April 23 2023 07:44 Cyro wrote:
I thought that kinda the whole point of a static fire is a WDR which is enhanced by having everything up to but not including the launch clamp release. Test what you fly, fly what you test and all. If they tested "properly" they would have caught this. It seems that they knew that there was a serious problem and tested incorrectly on purpose to avoid it


I thought they know it was going to destroy the launch mount but they figured it would abrade down the surface not rip it apart and throw it everywhere.
Elon had one tweet that said they didnt want to wait 2-3 months to rebuild and they figured they would do it after the launch instead.

Edit: LOL tweet is already in thread and is whats being discussed.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-27 12:47:25
April 27 2023 12:44 GMT
#4689
The FAA opened a mishap investigation into the starship launch because of undisclosed risks to public safety. Starship is grounded indefinitely, pending the results.

There are credible allegations that Elon has deleted tweets from people who were factually reporting on this, in some cases with tweets being labeled as deleted by the author (who claim to have not done so).
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-27 15:01:46
April 27 2023 13:33 GMT
#4690
Yea reports that Starship caused a fire the size of 3.5 acres. Only problem, as some have pointed out, there are no pictures and authorities have said no debris has been found, nor animal deaths.



I know there was some black smoke beyond the launch pad but 3.5 acres is over 15k feet wide and that would be a lot more smoke etc. Than what was seen. It will be interesting to figure out which way NASA Spaceflight cameras were facing on launch day as well.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 27 2023 18:13 GMT
#4691
Again SpaceX/NASA states the pad can be repaired in 2 months time.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-27 22:26:49
April 27 2023 22:20 GMT
#4692
I would be most concerned at the amount of particulate matter being spread throughout the nearby human-inhabited areas as it's a very substantial human health risk. Well outside of risk assessment range, still got hit badly. The discrepancy seems to have come from the worst case scenarios being modelled as a full stack RUD, while what we actually got with all of the engines firing into the ground caused a much more focused release of energy.

Some great footage here!


8 engines out, all of them pairs. Debris strikes seem the most obvious conclusion right now
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 27 2023 23:21 GMT
#4693
So... Falcon Heavy launch has been scrubbed and a tornado might be heading in the direction of KSC....

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-28 15:10:13
April 28 2023 15:09 GMT
#4694
Looks like cleanup/repairs have started at Boca Chica. Damage is shown, even to the tank farm.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BradTheBaneling
Profile Joined October 2018
38 Posts
April 28 2023 20:49 GMT
#4695
Spectacular to see they got the booster to clear the pad and get to MECO but holy shit is this some brand new stupidity when it comes to not building a flame trench/water suppression. SpaceX somehow runs genius hour with amateur hour simultaneously.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-28 21:51:38
April 28 2023 21:50 GMT
#4696
If the weather holds up SpaceX will launch two missions, a F9, then about an hour later a Falcon Heavy. Back to back.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 01 2023 18:15 GMT
#4697
And here comes the lawsuit, which to be honest I doubt will get an injunction as it is full of errors. For example they claim that Starship holds 3,700 metric tons of methane which not does it not. The total weight of the ship is a little over 5000 tons, and mostly made up of oxygen for fuel. FWS have yet to find any dead animals etc to my knowledge and they have been seen going over the entire area in large groups as well.

There is a valid reason they are suing the FAA and not including SpaceX, they would promptly lose.

Environmental and cultural-heritage nonprofits sued the Federal Aviation Administration on Monday, alleging the agency violated the National Environment Policy Act when it allowed SpaceX to launch the largest rocket ever built from its Boca Chica, Texas, facility without a comprehensive environmental review, according to court filings obtained by CNBC.

SpaceX’s Starship Super Heavy test flight on April 20 blew up the company’s launchpad, hurling chunks of concrete and metal sheets thousands of feet away into sensitive habitat, spreading particulate matter including pulverized concrete for miles, and sparking a 3.5-acre fire on state park lands near the launch site.

The lawsuit against the FAA was filed in a district court in Washington, D.C., by five plaintiffs: The Center for Biological Diversity, the American Bird Conservancy, SurfRider Foundation, Save Rio Grande Valley and a cultural-heritage organization, the Carrizo-Comecrudo Nation of Texas.

The groups argue the agency should have conducted an in-depth environmental impact statement (EIS) before ever allowing SpaceX to move ahead with its Starship Super Heavy plans in Boca Chica.

“The FAA failed to take the requisite hard look at the proposed project and has concluded that significant adverse effects will not occur due to purported mitigation measures,” they wrote in the lawsuit.

The plaintiffs argue the agency waived the need for more thorough analysis based on proposed “environmental mitigations.” But the mitigations the FAA actually required of SpaceX were woefully insufficient to offset environmental damages from launch events, construction and increased traffic in the area, as well as “anomalies” like the destruction of the launch pad and mid-air explosion in April, they said.

In their complaint, the attorneys note that the FAA’s own chief of staff for the Office of Commercial Space Transportation in June 2020 said the agency was planning an EIS. Later, “based on SpaceX’s preference,” the lawyers wrote, the federal agency settled on using “a considerably less thorough analysis,” which enabled SpaceX to launch sooner.

Despite the particulate matter, heavier debris and fire, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk said this weekend on Twitter Spaces, “To the best of our knowledge there has not been any meaningful damage to the environment that we’re aware of.”

The exact impact of the launch on the people, habitat and wildlife is still being evaluated by federal and state agencies, and other environmental researchers, alongside and independently from SpaceX.

National Wildlife Refuge lands and beaches of Boca Chica, which are near the SpaceX Starbase facility, provide essential habitat for endangered species including the piping plover, the red knot, jaguarundi, northern aplomado falcon, and sea turtles including the Kemp’s Ridley. Kemp’s Ridley is the most endangered sea turtle in the world, and the National Wildlife Refuge contains designated critical habitat for the piping plover.

Boca Chica land and the wildlife there, namely ocelots, are also sacred to the Carrizo-Comecrudo tribe of Texas.

As of last Wednesday, researchers from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had not found any carcasses of animals protected by the Endangered Species Act on the land that they own or manage in the area. However, the researchers were not able to access the site for two days after the launch, leaving open the possibility that carcasses could have been eaten by predators, washed away or even removed from the site.

Access to the state parks, beaches and the National Wildlife Refuge area near Starbase, by tribes, researchers and the public, are of particular concern to the groups challenging the FAA.

The plaintiff’s attorneys noted that in 2021, Boca Chica Beach was closed or inaccessible for approximately 500 hours or more, based on the notices of closure provided by Cameron County, with a “beach or access point closure occurring on over 100 separate days.” That high rate of closure, which the FAA allowed, “infringes upon the ability of the Carrizo/Comecrudo Nation of Texas to access lands and waters that are part of their ancestral heritage,” the groups argued.

The FAA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 01 2023 22:44 GMT
#4698
No launch today. Storms aren't allowing anything to launch it seems.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 02 2023 21:29 GMT
#4699
Looks like SpaceX has already repaired the hole and damage done by the launch.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BradTheBaneling
Profile Joined October 2018
38 Posts
May 05 2023 04:46 GMT
#4700


The video is fairly long and the creator does make some mistakes, however I think they bring up several interesting points that I haven’t really seen mentioned anywhere.
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